The strange position re-releases puts RC enthusiast in

[Saito2]

Its 2020. Your in the US car market looking for some new wheels. You could get a new Ford Mustang GT or a new Corvette etc. But...in this alternate timeline auto manufactures are also re-releasing their past classics. Ford will sell you a 1969 Mustang or even a Model A. Over at Chevy, there's a "new" '55 available or a split window "'63" Vette. Sounds great doesn't it? Now, is it reasonable to assume there should be no problem screaming down the highway everyday at 75mph with a non-overdrive '69 Mustang sporting 4.10 rear gears? Should a Model A be able to hold up to the daily grind without issue? Lets just say engine swaps are "easy". Should a "63 Corvette handle a 500 + hp LS motor without any other real supporting mods of major changes to its basic design?

This is the situation we find ourselves in dealing with modern vs readily available re-releases of vintage RC cars from Tamiya. A recent post about the merits of the Top Force Evo vs the new Super Avante gave me pause. Over the years on the forum, I've seen the DF01 platform that underpins the TF Evo go from a good solid shaft driven 4wd buggy to one that really can't hold up in today's element. The cars didn't change however, but their environment did and also folks opinions on their viability . In 2005 brushless probably wasn't the cheap go-to for speed that it is today. I'm guessing tracks weren't as abusive either.

Earlier, non-TRF Tamiya buggies weren't ever the most durable, especially under the rigors of racing. Usable, but nowhere near as tough as stuff from Associated, Losi, race-grade Kyosho etc. That was acceptable because most were used for bashing anyway and tracks were kinder and gentler (and loamy dirt!), without jumps going to the moon. Perhaps I'm wrong, but having these classics available to us now, as tech has progressed around these older designs, we may forget that Tamiya at one time thought a Technigold motor was the hottest thing in the world to put in one of their buggies and a 12" jump was consider high. 

Obviously, really old stuff like the SRB re-res aren't tricking anybody, but rather good designs like the DF01 can make us forget just what these cars were meant to stand up to. Its great that such an old design can still handle well enough to race but I wouldn't let that fool someone into thinking you can power it like its 2022 without issue.  

[speedy_w_beans]

I was waiting for the "what would you choose" question... 

I personally would prefer the restomod route with modern chassis, powertrain, suspension, and brakes, but the looks of 60s and 70s classics (talking about automobiles).  If the car has the shape, color, trim accents, etc., of the original but improved raw materials that won't rust or fade as easily, so much the better.

I think for that reason I have to give a hat tip to Kyosho, Associated, and Losi with their various re-releases.  Kyosho used their RB-series gearbox in the Scorpion and Beetle, and offered a belt drive option in their Optima and Javelin.  Associated brought their famous Stealth transmission to the re-released Worlds buggy.  Losi put a huge smile on my face recently with their 1/16 JRX2 re-release; they claim an updated transmission to handle modern brushless power.  All these buggies can take the power of 2022 and handle pretty well, but still provide some semblance of nostalgia.

[MadInventor]

Just my personal experience, but I've had no problems running 4000Kv 2S brushless motors in my hotshot, and the same system in a thundershot. OK, I'm not racing them and running them on tarmac, but the transmission has been ok. I don't think that it's fair to compare vintage cars like that against race bred classics from that era either. The hotshot I bought in '85 / '86 was £105, which was quite a bit cheaper that any pure race machine from the 80s. 

The nearest 'modern' car I've owned that I can compare against the thundershot would be a Rising Storm (DF-02) that I owned. When I put the same power in that, I had to uprate the plastic centre drive shaft, and the car suffered terribly from torque steer, thanks to the longitudinal layout of the motor. I also found that the gear casing that covered the spur gear had a tendency to split around the screw holes, and in the time I had it I went through 3 chassis caused by ripping the front suspension mounts out of the chassis during pfront end impacts. No such problems with the thundershot.

Having said that, the newer buggy handled better,  and was also lighter. The TT-02B looks to be a step back from the DF-02, with the plastic diff gears, along with the plastic crown wheel and pinion assemblies. 

I really don't think that technology has come along that much with buggy design since the late 90's. To me, the Cat and the Mid were the epitome of good engineering principles. A simple, efficient, robust transmission, with an uncomplicated, adjustable suspension setup. No complex plastic mouldings or machined parts. Have racing buggies really got that much better since then ? All that seems to have happened is that belt drive transmissions have got more complicated by putting the motor in the middle of the car to try and perfect the weight distribution for the lighter LiPo batteries and modern electronics. But would that tweaking be enough that an average driver with a modern buggy could beat a great driver with and old car.

With regards to your question about the 1:1 cars. Think about doing your comparison, not on a sunny freeway, but on a winding wet road in the winter. Now, do you want the old muscle car, or something like a 4wd Subaru Impreza Turbo. Also, when cars were designed in the 60s and 70s, 100mph was considered fast, and people had lower expectations of performance of their vehicles. Now, even small family hatchbacks can do that. Peoples performance expectations have moved on considerably from then. I think anyone who hasn't driven an old car would be quite shocked by how they perform in stock trim. I guess the same is probably of RC cars. If you gave a stock vintage tamiya to someone who's only experience has been of modern RC cars, they will probably be quite underwhelmed.

 

 

 

[alvinlwh]

I just wish in the alternative time line, in 2030, I still can buy an ICE instead of these expensive EV rubbish that are just expensive 1:1 versions of our toy cars. Actually I don't need to wait till 2030, even today, many ICE models are no longer available to buy. 

[Mrowka]

My beef with modern 1:1 automotive reissues is that they only try to recapture the styling of the originals, and they don't even do that well.

The result looks like a '69 Camaro redesigned as a Transformer, or an old Mustang targeted at bros and WWE enthusiasts. Everything aimed squarely at the Lowest Common Denominator. 

At the same time, I am not nostalgic. I don't have fond memories of those cars and I don't have this need to pretend it's 1969 again. I do, however, like the design philosophy of the old days, no infotainment systems, no overdrive gears, no luxury features or power options. I'm not afraid of hot cabins or RPMs. I don't need traction control, Bluetooth or an automatic. 

So I drive what I drive, usually an old car, modified to do want it to, which is better suited to my tastes than a restomod or a modern re re.

[El Gecko]

3 hours ago, MadInventor said:

when cars were designed in the 60s and 70s, 100mph was considered fast, and people had lower expectations of performance of their vehicles. Now, even small family hatchbacks can do that. Peoples performance expectations have moved on considerably from then. I think anyone who hasn't driven an old car would be quite shocked by how they perform in stock trim. I guess the same is probably of RC cars. If you gave a stock vintage tamiya to someone who's only experience has been of modern RC cars, they will probably be quite underwhelmed.

Yep. The funny thing is, 100mph is still fast. It's just that we have all this "safety" around us to keep us from feeling it.

Stick your head out the window at 100mph, and the bug that hits your forehead will hurt exactly the same no matter what car you're driving.

Metaphorically for RC, I've got a garage full of old muscle cars that I haven't driven in 20 years, all of which were old when I got them out of the junkyard, and a few are actually older than me. They're not very fast, the tires are bald and dry rotted, the brakes don't work very well, and the suspensions are shot, but they're all V8s and we had a lot of fun back in the day, so I'm happy to just get everything driving again.

Some new tires, a few crate motors for the cars I want to drive more regularly, and everything stays on pump gas because it's cheap and easy (NiMH). No crazy supercharged/twin turbo (brushless) or methanol/nitrous (lipo) here. And my "reliable daily driver" is over 10 years old, all (brushed) motor like the older cars which means it runs good on regular gas.

I think a lot of people get caught up in "what's best" or "what everyone else is doing" that they don't even consider how high their expectations really are. I'm pretty realistic with my expectations, and I don't need bonkers speed or giant jumps to have fun.

[MadInventor]

6 hours ago, El Gecko said:

Yep. The funny thing is, 100mph is still fast. It's just that we have all this "safety" around us to keep us from feeling it.

Stick your head out the window at 100mph, and the bug that hits your forehead will hurt exactly the same no matter what car you're driving.

Metaphorically for RC, I've got a garage full of old muscle cars that I haven't driven in 20 years, all of which were old when I got them out of the junkyard, and a few are actually older than me. They're not very fast, the tires are bald and dry rotted, the brakes don't work very well, and the suspensions are shot, but they're all V8s and we had a lot of fun back in the day, so I'm happy to just get everything driving again.

Some new tires, a few crate motors for the cars I want to drive more regularly, and everything stays on pump gas because it's cheap and easy (NiMH). No crazy supercharged/twin turbo (brushless) or methanol/nitrous (lipo) here. And my "reliable daily driver" is over 10 years old, all (brushed) motor like the older cars which means it runs good on regular gas.

I think a lot of people get caught up in "what's best" or "what everyone else is doing" that they don't even consider how high their expectations really are. I'm pretty realistic with my expectations, and I don't need bonkers speed or giant jumps to have fun.

I don't need bonkers speed or giant jumps to have fun either, that's why I'm scratch building a 4wd tractor that won't do more than about 6-8mph (Was aiming for 2 to 4 but miscalculated on the gear ratio somewhere ). 

100mph is actually feels a lot faster in an old school car. I've been lucky enough to be a passenger in a 5.0 TVR chimera, a Sunbeam Tiger, and an absolutely bonkers Cobra replica that had a 327 out of a drag racer in it. The sensory overload you get from being low to the ground, being in a convertible, then factor in the noise and acceleration, and 100mph seems a lot faster than in a modern enclosed car. Add to that the Tiger and the Cobra had modified engines and the acceleration was absolutely brutal. The Tiger had professionally rebuilt Ford 287 in it that would pull 7000rpm, and that made the TVR seem slow.

My favourite RC now is still my re-re Hotshot though. Purely from the memories it brings back from having one as a child. The brushless does give it a lot more 'pep', but I would not want to drive it off road at speed with the brushless for fear of rolling it and breaking something.

[Snappy1]

In this alternate timeline I would like to buy a Shelby Cobra Super Snake CSX 3303 , with a mountain rider in the boot......

[Pablo68]

Interesting proposition in this thread.

I guess the best way I could put it is that I don't generally but really high powered/mad stuff into a vintage buggy/vintage design. Just something reliable. maybe a bit punchy.

I have a few vintage restored from pieces or not running conditions. Usually the MSC and throttle servo goes bye bye. Everything gets cleaned and serviced, and a cheap ESC installed.

The only time I went a bit nuts was putting a Traxxas VLX system in my Hornet. The gearbox handled it ok, but it was just nuts, like backflip and/or constant wheelies nuts. I took it out not long after and put a tamiya esc and torque tuned in it. Much better.
The only other time after that was a Castle Mamba Max of some sort into a B4 racing buggy. Handled it ok, but it was just inappropriate. The system is now in my sons 4x4 SCT racing chassis.

As far as 1:1 cars go. I like the fairly recent trend of resto mod. Generally the looks of the old cars with the performance and reliability of newer cars.

[Tamiyastef]

For my 1:1 car (and with an unlimited budget) I want a '57 Chevrolet Belair Towncar (not the Nomad) on a modern chassis, drivetrain and with all the modern gadgets as airco, Bluetooth, rear view camera etc.

As for 1:10. I believe Kyosho is doing it with more feeling for the current and future market than Tamiya. Just my opinion. Love all things RC but have no connection with Losi, Associated or RC10 probably because I have never driven one of these.