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Nova1

Optima Mid 2022 running issues

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Just some advice required from all you Kyosho experts. Have just built the Optima Mid 2022 re-release and took it out on its maiden run. I was underwhelmed by performance considering the electrics installed - LRP 14x2 brushed motor with a Viper 12t limit ESC and 7.2v NIHM battery. On second run I noticed that something appears to be slipping (either belt or diffs?) as it sometimes lags under acceleration. I am experienced with Tamiya but have limited knowledge of belt-driven kits (that said, my belt-driven Turbo Optima does not have this issue). The belt tension is set to 8 I think (as recommended in the instructions) and I'm pretty sure there are no errors in the build. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

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Thank you - that was my feeling but I have set as per the manual. 

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I´m sure, the Turbo Optima comes with a slipper. Maybe the Mid, too? Could it slip there? Or is it noisewise definetely the belt slipping?

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Thank you - that was my feeling but I have set as per the manual. 

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Yes the Mid does come with a slipper - thanks for that comment. I’m really unsure if it is the belt slipping - might even be ESC related. It seems to momentarily lose power 

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It could be something as simple as the wheels spinning inside the tires..... Have you glued the tires to the rims, and do they seem loose. ?

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Yes I did glue the tyres on this one - I don’t normally but thought with this motor I will get blistering performance! On the contrary - it just seems sluggish. It will accelerate and then lose power and then pick up again - perhaps it’s not a mechanical issue and I might swap out all electrics. I’ve not used the MTroniks ESC before - mostly use Hobbywing 1060

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If the belt is slipping, it will sound like tearing. I doubt the belt is slipping.

If the re-re comes with a slipper, if it is not tightened properly it will slip, tell tale sound is of the motor revs picking up but the car not accelerating. You can check the slipper a couple of ways, I tend to hold one rear wheel and the spur gear and try and turn the other rear wheel, it should not slip easily. I think a loose slipper is the most likely problem.

I have little confidence in Mtroniks escs and wouldn't be surprised it that was causing problems.

Also a brushed modified motor and NiMH batteries can be the source of many problems, especially if they are old. Even if they are new the quality in 2022 is worse than in 2002. Brushless and LiPo is a much better choice for high performance runners.

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Thank you for the advice - I think I’m going to replace all the electrics and see if that resolves the problem. The more I think about it I don’t think the belt is the problem. Perhaps the motor is drawing too much current under acceleration? 

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I've had Mtroniks ESCs cut out before because they can't supply enough power to the servo. I'd try a HW1060 if you have one spare.

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In instances like this I always like to bench test the car, on a stand everything intact, play around with the throttle and brakes , it’s easier to diagnose issues with the car directly in front on you instead of it ripping down the road,  my best guess is slipper or battery

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Thank you all who have responded - just by way of an update I have solved the problem! The culprit was the ESC - I think the motor was demanding too much resulting in intermittent lag when the throttle was applied. The ESC is rated down to 12t and the motor was a 14x2? Anyway I switched back to my trusty Quickrun 1060 paired with a Kyosho G15 and all is good now. 

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How does it perform on the G15? Ive got a couple of these motors in some lighter 2wd buggies and they are quite quick!

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Impressed with the G15 - it appears on par with the Superstock BZ I often run in my Tamiya buggies 

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8 hours ago, Superluminal said:

How does it perform on the G15? Ive got a couple of these motors in some lighter 2wd buggies and they are quite quick!

I use a G15 in my Javelin and it's pretty quick, as Nova1 said on a par with a Superstock and a pretty good performer given its price. My Optima runs a G2X but it's a little slow for the Kyosho 4WD buggies. For the 2WDs I run the Le Mans 490 in my Scorpion, Turbo Scorpion and Tomahawk which although 30T, is quite fast given the standard gearing. My Beetle runs a Sport Tune, but it runs a little hot, so I guess the gearing isn't ideal. My Ultima has a G15 too, and it flies! 🙂

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If it's the belt you would hear it.  Most likely cause is the slipper being too loose.  The diffs are gear diffs so they won't slip.  Could also be the wheels spinning inside the tyres if they are not glued 

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Problem fixed now but thanks for the comments - it was a malfunctioning ESC causing loss of power 

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Good to hear you solved the problem, @Nova1!   I too am a complete newb to Kyosho cars (I have a few MiniZ's, RTR Blizzard, and Javelin) and will be building my Optima MID soon.  

I kept an eye on this thread to see how you correct the issue you were having.   I too basically run 1060 on all my buggies and BZ motor to keep things even.  Bacially 1252MG, BZ, 1060, SR215 (Spektrum receiver).

Have fun with your new car.   Keep us posted.  :D 

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If of any use I spent ages trying to identify an ESC that was small enough to fit between the decks but capable enough for 2S and a powerful motor. The Kyosho Le Mans option is reportedly underwhelming. 
Got there eventually, Hobby Wing XR10 Pro (stock spec) and 13.5t brushless. 
It’s pretty quick.

BBE816C7-147A-4F8B-9361-EA8F89916D5C.jpeg

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Good to see the problem was solved. My self, if I was having that kind of problem I would have checked the slipper. Another thing I also do is to pop out the motor and roll the buggy to see how free the drive train feels. The less resistance the better, especially with belt transmissions.
But, you found the problem so well done.

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On 8/19/2022 at 4:25 AM, 0836whimper said:

If of any use I spent ages trying to identify an ESC that was small enough to fit between the decks but capable enough for 2S and a powerful motor. The Kyosho Le Mans option is reportedly underwhelming. 
Got there eventually, Hobby Wing XR10 Pro (stock spec) and 13.5t brushless. 
It’s pretty quick.

BBE816C7-147A-4F8B-9361-EA8F89916D5C.jpeg

I’m glad you got it running. Thanks for the Esc tip! I need a small Esc for my 511X, that might be the one!

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I had a similar problem with a 12t and a Novak XRS esc.  The XRS had some sort of current limiting built into it.  Even with the smallest pinion, a DF02 had NO punch and couldn't clear a small double to save its life. My brother was so annoyed he sold the car.

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On 8/19/2022 at 12:25 PM, 0836whimper said:

If of any use I spent ages trying to identify an ESC that was small enough to fit between the decks but capable enough for 2S and a powerful motor. The Kyosho Le Mans option is reportedly underwhelming. 
Got there eventually, Hobby Wing XR10 Pro (stock spec) and 13.5t brushless. 
It’s pretty quick.

BBE816C7-147A-4F8B-9361-EA8F89916D5C.jpeg

Hi @0836whimper

I am considering the same setup for the ‘87 I’m building. Did you keep the std pinion?

If no, what pinion did you go for instead?

thanks 

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For 13.5T + HW 80A esc you can consider a gear ratio between 6+ to 7 (28-32T pinion) + 76T spur. The smaller 76T from Kyosho is for a better range of pinions fitment & therefore more flexible gear ratio. I run my mid in vintage class racing with 17.5T with a 28/76 pinion/spur last season. Will up the gearing this season to at least a 30T. I was wondering why everyone was passing me on the straight. Slipper need to be tighter than kit manual as the track I run on is low grip.

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