The Mini 4wd thread!

[Bwaaatch 491]

I wondered whether there is scope here on TC for a Mini 4wd thread here in the main forum, or even a Mini 4wd dedicated sub-forum?

Mini 4wds get mentioned quite a bit either in their own context or as an adjunct to conversations about 'proper' cars :-)

They are cheeky, they are cheap, they are tunable, and they can be raced. Whether a gateway Tamiya, a side hobby or as an end point in themselves, they ride the same waves of nostalgia, engineering and cool looks as the big boys.

So I just wondered whether this forum might have enough enthusiasts to support them in a more formal way? Any interest?

For those less familiar with these machines, here's a set of useful links and pics!

Tamiya official page: https://www.tamiya.com/japan/mini4wd/index.html

Tamiya youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MINI4WDチャンネル公式

Some cool shops and sites that really embrace the specific culture of mini 4wd:

• East Easy in Indonesia (focussed on nostalgia for the late 80s stuff): https://www.instagram.com/east_easy/?hl=en and https://www.facebook.com/EastEasyMini4wdStudio/
• Good Old Days in Indonesia (similar to the above): https://www.facebook.com/GODmini4wd
• DXN Provisions, Arcadia California (contemporary store and permanent raceway!): https://dxnprovisions.com
• Mini4wdUK: An attempt to kick-start the scene in the UK: https://mini4wd.uk and https://www.facebook.com/mini4wduk
• Mini4wditalia: (Italians lead the way in racing these machines outdoors, controlling them with hockey sticks!): https://www.mini4wditalia.it 
• Manchester Model Shop: The best (only? but still very excellent! source in the UK): https://www.manchestermodelshop.co.uk/product-category/tamiya-mini-4wd/ 
• Condele: Japanese site– and app (sponsored by Tamiya, I think) – focussed on shelf queens: http://condele.club
• Massdamper: Japanese design-led mini4wd store: https://shop.massdamper.jp and https://www.facebook.com/massdamper.jp/

So this post is a rallying call, really. Are there enough of us to support this within TC, and what's the best way to do it?

[alvinlwh 3692]

30 minutes ago, Bwaaatch said:

They are cheeky, they are cheap, they are tunable, and they can be raced. Whether a gateway Tamiya, a side hobby or as an end point in themselves, they ride the same waves of nostalgia, engineering and cool looks as the big boys.

I started with Tamiya at about 5yo, but those are static. They were the gateway to "moving" Tamiya for me, used to race them after school in my early teens out in the far east, sometimes even skipping school to race them. Now in my 40s, I am thinking of starting a Mini 4WD themed cafe to introduce kids to them. I think they are great for seasonal countries like the UK. They still can be raced in the winter months as they are indoors. 

Getting tracks in the UK is the difficult part. MMS does not carry them normally. While they can be special ordered, the cost is is too much to justify. Ordering from overseas also cost a lot due to their size and weight. 

[Gebbly 203]

I like the idea of tiny little cars. But am I right in saying they have to run on special tracks?

If there was a way of turning them into proper RC then that would be cool. I have a tiny receiver 8mm x 18mm x 30mm but I'm not sure on getting small enough parts for a motor/servo/steering would be possible. Hmm, it would be cool, time for some internet research

[alvinlwh 3692]

12 minutes ago, Gebbly said:

I like the idea of tiny little cars. But am I right in saying they have to run on special tracks?

If there was a way of turning them into proper RC then that would be cool. I have a tiny receiver 8mm x 18mm x 30mm but I'm not sure on getting small enough parts for a motor/servo/steering would be possible. Hmm, it would be cool, time for some internet research

Yes you are right a out the tracks and that is the key bottleneck to the hobby in the western world. These are effectively pocket money kits out in the far east which is why many younger kids got onto it. But when they get to the west, they became 3 to 4 times more expensive.

There used to be some 1CH controllable ones, but only speed, and they were never too popular. 

There was this even earlier on this year but unfortunately I will be arriving too late to attend. 

https://mothership.sg/2022/06/tamiya-car-punggol/

A lot of "mid life crisis" men at that event are just like myself, Mini 4WDs in the teens, proper RC now, or even 1:1 cars. 

[alvinlwh 3692]

Further to what @Bwaaatchsaid, there are more to these little "toys" that are powered by 2 AAs that meets the eye.

One can adjust:

1. Gear ratio 

2. Motors, speed vs torque

3. Tyres, hard, soft, narrow, wide

4. Weight balancing

5. Braking (yes, even that) 

6. Weight reduction 

7. Aerodynamics 

8. "Toe" (yes, even though they are fixed axles, toe can be adjusted by the rollers) 

9. Cooling (there are heat sink for that tiny 130 motor!) 

All these are knowledge that I gained in my teens that carried over to my RC life 30 years later. 

[Willy iine 13589]

Honestly I never understood the appeal of the Mini-yonku besides the cool looking cars themselves.  I mean at least with slot cars you have throttle control in real time.. even train sets.  

The closest resemblance is the Pula-rail (sp?), but even that has real time track selection where you can decide the train’s destiny..

Mini-yonku is like playing with Choro-Q that won’t stop until the battery dies.   and without a track it’s like chasing an Energizer bunny to no end.. (?)

My only useless contribution.. 

[alvinlwh 3692]

5 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

I mean at least with slot cars you have throttle control in real time.. even train sets.  

It is the fact that you cannot control that require you to have a different approach and skill set to race these things. Do you go for speed and risk the car jumping the track? Do you go for control and risk loosing out to a faster car? How to you balance these before the start of the race so that you can be the winner at the end? 

Actually now thinking about it, I carry these thought process over to my work in real life. 

[Gabranth 168]

34 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

Mini-yonku is like playing with Choro-Q that won’t stop until the battery dies.   and without a track it’s like chasing an Energizer bunny to no end.. (?)

Yes, if you put your out-of-the-box car in fairly flat track that's what will happen. But try installing faster motor on it, or try technical track with slopes, banking, loop-de-loop, etc. When your car is unable to stay on track, you start thinking what modification you can do to avoid that. It may start simply as replacing the rollers or reinforcing the bumper with FRP or carbon parts. Then you start adding braking system and mass damper set to deal with slopes and jumps. Naturally you'll be tempted to go faster and faster, which in turn requires change to your setup and there you go, down the rabbit hole 

Here's a video in English about mini4WD appeal:

Should you want to try virtual route you can play Yakuza 0 or Yakuza Kiwami as those games have mini4WD-inspired mini game called Pocket Circuit that is surprisingly in-depth and engaging

 

[Mokei Kagaku 2487]

 

8 minutes ago, Gabranth said:

Yes, if you put your out-of-the-box car in fairly flat track that's what will happen. But try installing faster motor on it, or try technical track with slopes, banking, loop-de-loop, etc. When your car is unable to stay on track, you start thinking what modification you can do to avoid that. It may start simply as replacing the rollers or reinforcing the bumper with FRP or carbon parts. Then you start adding braking system and mass damper set to deal with slopes and jumps. Naturally you'll be tempted to go faster and faster, which in turn requires change to your setup and there you go, down the rabbit hole 

Here's a video in English about mini4WD appeal:

Should you want to try virtual route you can play Yakuza 0 or Yakuza Kiwami as those games have mini4WD-inspired mini game called Pocket Circuit that is surprisingly in-depth and engaging

 

Well said! Mini 4WD racing in Japan and several other countries (primarily far east) is science and highly sophisticated. On top level it's easily as advanced as top level RC racing and the knowledge and experience of the best racers is mind blowing. 

[GeeWings 2429]

I’ve not got an mini 4WD but I’m constantly fascinated by it. I love the designs and scale of the cars and the mini versions of some of the RC classics are very cool. I also love the tracks, again something about the compact and clean design. I will buy some at some point but more for display purposes than anything else.

One of the reasons I’m fascinated is the infinite tuning and adjustments that seem to be key to racing. It’s clearly not just speed wins.

I’ve also seen some of the “Street mini 4WD” races, using a kind of hockey stick to control the cars. Not my cup of tea but interesting how these sub hobbies grow from each other…

 

[Willy iine 13589]

I'm still not the guy for this, but that is okay.   The cars look cool though, that's for sure.    I'm not making fun of the hobby. 

My car guy cousin (he loves driving 1:1 cars in the touge) never understood RC cars as the driver's view point is from outside the car.. he just could not understand the fun of it.   He agreed the cars looked cool though, so I guess it's like that.  

I wish the decals were vinyl and weren't paper backed though.. I can see myself collecting more cars just for display.. 

[BuggyGuy 841]

I do really enjoy these - in the 90's they were much easier to get here in the UK but really have to be imported now. 

I will get some on my next PJ order - but they'll only be for the shelf really as the track costs for these are very high and it's too big to 3d print for me

[Bwaaatch 491]

49 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

I'm still not the guy for this, but that is okay.   The cars look cool though, that's for sure.    I'm not making fun of the hobby. 

My car guy cousin (he loves driving 1:1 cars in the touge) never understood RC cars as the driver's view point is from outside the car.. he just could not understand the fun of it.   He agreed the cars looked cool though, so I guess it's like that.  

I wish the decals were vinyl and weren't paper backed though.. I can see myself collecting more cars just for display.. 

@Willy iine Although most cars have paper decals, some have metallic ones that I think are more plastic-based. Also, any kit that comes with a polycarbonate body shell usually has clear stickers, too. You also get clear vinyl stickers in polycarbonate extra body sets, and also available as unique sticker sheets titled as ‘dress-up stickers’.

So there are options!

I think team blue grass might also produce some stickers at this scale?

I used to think that the vinyl stickers were the best for these kits, but I have to say that long term the paper one hold up really well, if properly stored. 

 

[Willy iine 13589]

3 minutes ago, Bwaaatch said:

@Willy iine Although most cars have paper decals, some have metallic ones that I think are more plastic-based. Also, any kit that comes with a polycarbonate body shell usually has clear stickers, too. You also get clear vinyl stickers in polycarbonate extra body sets, and also available as unique sticker sheets titled as ‘dress-up stickers’.

So there are options!

I think team blue grass might also produce some stickers at this scale?

I used to think that the vinyl stickers were the best for these kits, but I have to say that long term the paper one hold up really well, if properly stored. 

 

Thanks for the info.  I don't mind collecting more cars for display!  Like Avante and Egress should be part of my display anyway, right?   

[94eg! 820]

In junior high school of either 88 or 89 I used to race mini 4wd. I went halves on a $10 Vanquish Jr kit (see my Avatar) with a friend. We promptly threw together the car on the street corner outside the shop before the first heat. The Vanquish kit fell into the B-stock class as that chassis was quicker having slicks, rollers, and a better transmission. The car won its first 2 heats, and the main. We were awarded a $10 gift certificate for class victory.

After bringing the car home, and explaining to my Dad how the car ran, he told me I should buy my friend out of the car. Andy was happy to get double his money back, and the Vanquish was all mine

After that I continued racing the car in completely B-stock form. Its worst placing was second, and think that only happened once. I believe I racked up about $120 in gift certificates that used to purchase my first real RC kit....a kyosho Raider.

 

[alvinlwh 3692]

1 hour ago, Willy iine said:

I wish the decals were vinyl and weren't paper backed though.. I can see myself collecting more cars just for display.. 

I thought you had seen some of my clear body Mini 4WDs, they are called "special" for that world although just normal for us in the RC world. Those bodies has vinyl and PRE-CUT stickers! 

(I left it clear because it is  "special" after all!) 

[alvinlwh 3692]

16 minutes ago, 94eg! said:

In junior high school of either 88 or 89 I used to race mini 4wd. I went halves on a $10 Vanquish Jr kit

That was around the same time as my Mini 4WD life although I was more of a Dash boy back then. When the released the Dash collection recently, I just had to grab them all. 

[94eg! 820]

Yeah I fell for the "Dash" line as well when I purchased a Dash-1 Emperor to race in the Class A stock. That car was a miserable failure. Sometimes you just get lucky I guess.

[Willy iine 13589]

18 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

I thought you had seen some of my clear body Mini 4WDs, they are called "special" for that world although just normal for us in the RC world. Those bodies has vinyl and PRE-CUT stickers! 

(I left it clear because it is  "special" after all!) 

Yeah I’d be interested in displaying like that, the Mini-yonku version next to my RC.    

Plus the box art itself is waay cool.  Like a manga cover. 

[alvinlwh 3692]

23 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

Yeah I’d be interested in displaying like that, the Mini-yonku version next to my RC.    

That is why I searched so hard to locate a DF-02 Aero Avante even though they are said to be a bit "crap". 

BTW I also got the clear "special" body for that Mini 4WD Aero Avante Jr but got on the blue one for this picture. 

A different type of Mini 4WD. 

[alvinlwh 3692]

@Willy iinefound another picture. The Fire is actually a clear body, which I painted. It actually look worse than unpainted as the cockpit window sticker did not work well with paint under being semi transparent

[Willy iine 13589]

43 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

@Willy iinefound another picture. The Fire is actually a clear body, which I painted. It actually look worse than unpainted as the cockpit window sticker did not work well with paint under being semi transparent

Nice.  For me, I'd probably just do a small version of my actual RC car.. color scheme and all.  Like SuperAstute would also be nice for me to do in my black theme..

[alvinlwh 3692]

12 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

Like SuperAstute would also be nice for me to do in my black theme..

18513 is the kit for you, if it can be still found. 

[Willy iine 13589]

2 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

18513 is the kit for you, if it can be still found. 

Thanks.  They're around per ebay at $90... I was thinking Tamiya 95059 and just paint it black to match my color scheme?  

[alvinlwh 3692]

34 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

Thanks.  They're around per ebay at $90... I was thinking Tamiya 95059 and just paint it black to match my color scheme?  

That still seems to be rather expensive. Your best hope is for a rere. Keep an eye out on PJ.