LiPo Balance Charger Port Question

[Gabranth 216]

This is my first foray into lipo world. I bought a balance charger (SkyRC S65) but I'm confused with how and where I should plug my 2s balance plug into the slot. Since said plug only has 3 pins while the charger slot has 5 (for higher s lipo I assume?).

So should I get an adapter or can I just plug it into some of the pin (there is numbering above the pin)?

Also that charger has female xt60 connection which I'm not prepared for, is it safe to use dean to xt60 adapter, or even crazier chain of adapter like tamiya to dean to xt60 (to charge my nimh that has tamiya plug since I have tamiya to dean adapter)?

[sosidge 624]

Just align the balance connector to the right so that negative lines up with negative.

You can use an adaptor but it's always more reliable to have direct runs of wire.

[Gabranth 216]

How to determine the negative line? Is it the red or black cable or there's some specific marker?

[sosidge 624]

Black. But the connector will only fit one way.

[Gabranth 216]

Okay thanks a lot, the manual doesn't explain anything so I was confused.

[alvinlwh 5888]

Black to "-". If there are more then 1 black (some batteries have multiple), the non black one to be furthers away from "-". Charger should refuse to charge anyway if plugged in wrongly. I once missed a pin and plugged it in the 3S position. Charger still gave a reading but refused to charge as cell 1, the "missing" one is reading as 0V.

[Gabranth 216]

Indeed the manual said there will be error message if balance connect is wrong but doesn't elaborate much. It is pretty comprehensive on setup and features but it seems to assume the user has correct connectors and already know what their doing 

[Wooders28 4718]

2S stands for 2 batteries (cells) in Serise. Think of it, as 2 AA batteries in a line.

The black balance wire is connected to the neg end, the red to the positive end and the white to where the 2 batteries are against each other in the middle.

The charger can charge a single cell, by swapping the polarity of the white lead, and switching off either the black or red.

The charger will throw up an error, if it's getting the wrong polarity, so don't over worry about it.

 

On 8/11/2022 at 6:40 AM, Gabranth said:

is it safe to use dean to xt60 adapter,

I'd say yes, but as above, you're always better with less connections.

You generally charge a battery at 1C , 1 x the battery Capacity, so a 3300mah would be 3.3amps, 4000mah will be 4amps, 

Even the weak tamiya (molex) connections will take under 10 amps without problems.

 

It's on the esc, that problems arrise, even a 540 silver can can pull 50+ amps ,which the tamiya plug would start to get melty.

[alvinlwh 5888]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:40 AM, Gabranth said:

is it safe to use dean to xt60 adapter

That's how I change my batteries although I am considering changer all over to XT60, when I can be bothered to. 

[alvinlwh 5888]

7 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

You generally charge a battery at 1C , 1 x the battery Capacity, so a 3300mah would be 3.3amps, 4000mah will be 4amps, 

Is there any harm in charging at higher C on batteries rated for it? For example, my 4ah is rated at 3C meaning 12A. Although my charger cannot go anywhere near that, if one day I decided to get a "big" charger, it may. 

[Wooders28 4718]

12 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Is there any harm in charging at higher C on batteries rated for it? For example, my 4ah is rated at 3C meaning 12A. Although my charger cannot go anywhere near that, if one day I decided to get a "big" charger, it may. 

If the manufacturer rates them at that charge rate, then it's upto you, how much you trust them, (a no name one you got off ebay for a tenner? 😳) 

I think some of mine are rated to 5C, meaning I could charge them at 21amp, but I usually charge them at 1C, unless it's looking tight for time on race day, and then bump it up to 1.5C.

I look on it, more as a safety margin, at 1C, I'm effectively slow charging, so less likely for things to go fizz.

[alvinlwh 5888]

3 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

If the manufacturer rates them at that charge rate, then it's upto you, how much you trust them, (a no name one you got off ebay for a tenner? 😳) 

I think some of mine are rated to 5C, meaning I could charge them at 21amp, but I usually charge them at 1C, unless it's looking tight for time on race day, and then bump it up to 1.5C.

I look on it, more as a safety margin, at 1C, I'm effectively slow charging, so less likely for things to go fizz.

It is a Turnigy one, from HobbyKing when they still shipped from Europe. Are they any good? 

I had seen this discussion about fast vs slow charging when QC first came out in phones. From personal experience, which is just anecdotal evidence, there seem to be no difference in deterioration in phones that are quick charged or not, but it was not a like for like compensation due to age, technology, etc... 

[Wooders28 4718]

1 hour ago, alvinlwh said:

t is a Turnigy one, from HobbyKing when they still shipped from Europe. Are they any good?

I've a few, they've been good for me 🤷‍♂️

Phones are different to running in RC cars, I'm sure most phones, although lithium, aren't lithium polymer (think they're lithium Ion?) and are slightly less energy density, but safer.

We also hammer lipos, I can discharge a 4200mah battery in 6 mins, even with the torch on, and watching a film on a phone, you can't discharge it that quick.

I also don't know of a phone 'quick'  charger ,that's 15 amps +. I'm not sure what the definition of 'slow' charging and 'quick' charging is, maybe our language is slightly different in the RC world?

[alvinlwh 5888]

10 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

I've a few, they've been good for me 🤷‍♂️

Phones are different to running in RC cars, I'm sure most phones, although lithium, aren't lithium polymer (think they're lithium Ion?) and are slightly less energy density, but safer.

We also hammer lipos, I can discharge a 4200mah battery in 6 mins, even with the torch on, and watching a film on a phone, you can't discharge it that quick.

I also don't know of a phone 'quick'  charger ,that's 15 amps +. I'm not sure what the definition of 'slow' charging and 'quick' charging is, maybe our language is slightly different in the RC world?

Phones use lipos now and according to this article, lipo is safer than Li-Ion. 

https://www.androidauthority.com/lithium-ion-vs-lithium-polymer-whats-the-difference-27608/

Definition of Quick Charge is charging at a greater current of what comes out of a older USB port, typically 10W.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quick_Charge

Don't think phone chargers need to go 15A since phones batteries are 1S 3.6/7V.

Yes, the technology is somewhat different, QC varies the V and A to achieve quick charging while in the RC world, we only adjust the A? 

From what I gathered, it is ok to fast charge Li batteries, RC, phones, 1:1 cars, up to around 80% and then fill up the remaining slowly? That is why 1:1 electric cars only quote their "charge to 80%" time as the remaining 20% will take ages. Same with my RC charger, it will go at whatever A I set it to until about 4V and slow down to 1A and slow down further as it approaches 4.2V.

[Wooders28 4718]

7 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Phones use lipos now and according to this article, lipo is safer than Li-Ion.

All my Samsung phones have been /are Li-Ion, but no doubt some will be lipo.

I think the highest charge rate USB I've got, is 3amp (could be 3.1) which is just under the 1C rating for my phone, but it does get noticeably warm.

 

7 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Don't think phone chargers need to go 15A since phones batteries are 1S 3.6/7V.

Its more about the amp hour rating ,than the volts? A 15,000mah 1s battery would still be only 1C charging at 15amps.

 

7 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

QC varies the V and A to achieve quick charging while in the RC world, we only adjust the A? 

We only manually adjust the amps these days, the volts are done by the charger. Bitd, you used to alter both, and get those Nicads super toasty...😳

 

7 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

From what I gathered, it is ok to fast charge Li batteries, RC, phones, 1:1 cars, up to around 80% and then fill up the remaining slowly?

If you watch the charging amps when charging , they stay at the 1C value up until around the 80%, then drop off, I believe the charger charges the battery as a whole, and only the last 20% they going into balance charging and more trickle charging , looking at each individual cell and bringing each one up to 100%, if you flick onto the individual cell volt display, you can see creep up, one cell, then the other, which is what takes the time.

I'm guessing ,charging upto 80% would be fine every so often, but if its the last 20% that the balancing takes place, you could end up with a miss balanced battery.

[Gabranth 216]

On 8/14/2022 at 3:54 PM, Wooders28 said:

It's on the esc, that problems arrise, even a 540 silver can can pull 50+ amps ,which the tamiya plug would start to get melty.

Now I'm worried, all my ESCs so far have Tamiya plug and I don't think I want to change them since I have no experience in soldering wires. Will it be alright for just casual run? I'm not going to use super-high end battery (for now), just curious to see difference between lipo and nimh in same machine.

[Wooders28 4718]

16 minutes ago, Gabranth said:

Now I'm worried, all my ESCs so far have Tamiya plug and I don't think I want to change them since I have no experience in soldering wires. Will it be alright for just casual run? I'm not going to use super-high end battery (for now), just curious to see difference between lipo and nimh in same machine.

Sorry, didn't mean to panic! 😳

Silver cans, 'CAN ' pull 50 amps, if stalled (grass wrapped around the axle, jamming it up and you keep on full power), but for general use, they should be fine if you're sensible, but I would check the connection temp after running (just hold it, anything over around 50°c is too hot to hold).

If you have the option to get rid of the tamiya plug, then it's something I would recommend, just as a, belt and braces, exercise.

If you start running lower turn motors (15t firebolt etc), then it's necessary, I've melted tamiya plugs running Nicads bitd.

Lipos are better in 3 aspects.

1- the lipo battery is lighter, and as per the famous Colin Chapman (lotus) quote, "Adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight, makes you faster everywhere"..

2 - they keep a higher voltage for longer, both nimh and lipo are 8.4v fully charged, lipo only drops slightly ,where nimh drop like a stone.

3- Is the aspect I think makes the most difference, and that's the discharge current. "IF " a silver can trys to pull 50amps running a nimh, it just can't provide it, but a lipo (generally) can with ease, meaning the 'punch' (the get up and go) is alot better running lipo.

 

Not sure if I'm helping here, but this is my late 80's esc, it went melty, not flamey, so I wouldn't be overly worried.

 

[Wooders28 4718]

53 minutes ago, Gabranth said:

I don't think I want to change them since I have no experience in soldering wires.

If the wallet allows, I would purchase a soldering iron (you need a 60w, although an adjustable solder staion is better, but more expensive), solder some flux, and just practice with old bits of wire until your more confident.

Being able to solder, really helps in the RC hobby / sport.

These plug from Hobbyking have a plastic cover, which hide the soldering 😏

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/t-style-connector-male-female-with-insulating-caps-10-pairs.html?___store=en_us

Other than that, if you let us know where you are in the world, someone close will help you out, if not , a local modelshop (or RC club).

[WillyChang 1814]

1 hour ago, Wooders28 said:

These plug from Hobbyking have a plastic cover, which hide the soldering 😏

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/t-style-connector-male-female-with-insulating-caps-10-pairs.html?___store=en_us

that SKU been on backorder like forever! Even before they decided to shutdown Sydney warehouse  

[Wooders28 4718]

7 minutes ago, WillyChang said:

that SKU been on backorder like forever! Even before they decided to shutdown Sydney warehouse  

Never noticed that!! 

I've still got a few pairs left of those, so not needed to order any in the past few years....😬

[Gabranth 216]

Yeah I already browsing for soldering station before because I know eventually I will have to get into it by looking at high-end non-Tamiya Escs and motors in the market . It's just for casual basher with 1060+torque tuned I don't want to invest way too much on them (although them being cheap means if I do something wrong then it's lesser loss)

[Jonathon Gillham 4605]

10 hours ago, Gabranth said:

Yeah I already browsing for soldering station before because I know eventually I will have to get into it by looking at high-end non-Tamiya Escs and motors in the market . It's just for casual basher with 1060+torque tuned I don't want to invest way too much on them (although them being cheap means if I do something wrong then it's lesser loss)

I haven't chimed in before because @Wooders28 is one of the most knowledgeable guys out there and knows way more than me.

I do have experience with soldering stations though. I started with a cheap 60w iron off Banggood and it was "fine". I could solder stuff. However, I stumped up the cash for the Hakko FX888D  and some loctite brand solder and its night and day difference. Confidence levels through the roof. Buy once buy right!

[Wooders28 4718]

8 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

I haven't chimed in before because @Wooders28 is one of the most knowledgeable guys out there and knows way more than me.

Cheers! 

Can still teach an old dog new tricks though! (My 5yr old , teaches me how to do things on my phone, I didn't know it could do....😳) 

[SlideWRX 781]

The correct setup is very important!  I just replaced my Amazon 'from China' 80w soldering iron with a Hakko FX-600 72w and some good solder with flux, and it is a night and day difference. 

- I plugged both into a Killawatt meter at the wall plug, and the Amazon started at 40 and slowed to 30 watts to heat up at its highest setting.  The Hakko pulled ~65 to start and slowed to 55watts at the same temp.  The Hakko had a higher setting available as well.

- The Amazon iron had a 5-10mm gap between the tip of the ceramic heater core and the soldering tip, while the Hakko maybe had 1mm, transfering heat much better. 

- The Amazon kit came with 'solder', but didn't list if it was 60/40, lead free or if it had flux or anything.  I ordered some new 60/40 flux solder with 2% flux.  The solder with flux was almost as important as a properly working iron!

The Amazon item worked well enough for some fiddling with circuit board type stuff, but not 14Gage wire between a motor and esc.  Youtube videos would show less than 10 seconds for a solder to be done, and I was holding it there 40-50 seconds or more trying to get it to work.  With the Hakko it worked just like the videos.

[Gabranth 216]

The advantage of solder station is adjustable temperature, right? For usual RC case what setting is the best for quick work but not too hot it can damage the cable or connector?