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Cuiken

Silver can budget rally build off

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44 minutes ago, Busdriver said:

Postage is horrendous

Absolutely! I've been looking at the Opel body's they have as I would like an Opel GT on a M-chassis and a Manta, Ascona or Kadett GTE as a rally car. Postage from the UK to Belgium would make this an almost £ 100 purchase and that's before the "thank you Brexit" taxes and customs fee. That's just too much for me.😪

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Okay, update on the car(s).

In a dry spell over the weekend me and my mate actually got out and did some racing. Recent torential rain mena the ususal woodland spots were too waterlogged so we opted for a road stage in a large carpark. Got some spray chalk, marked out a circuit (about 16mx8m) and got underway.

It was great fun. Even better than I'd expected. My mate's TA04 was a good match against the XV01. Not as easy in the corners but way faster on the straights. It made for some great racing with both cars running at speeds where you could actually choose racing lines and overtake without wiping eachother out.

The XV01 is a great chassis, freshly built shocks with long eyelets gave a bit of extra ground clearance and made it lean really nicely into the corners. All good scale driving stuff.

Only issue was that, after one pack, the torque tuned motor died on me. Now, IIRC the stock piniopn on the XV01 is a 22T which is to be used with the stock silver can motor. Conventional wisdom says you can up the tooth count on tour pinion with a torque tuned (or maybe I've got that wrong?). So, I put 24T pinion on the torque tuned and went racing.

The motor is absolutely toast (I should hae noticed the reducing power) and it may also have taken the ESC with it :angry:

Bit surprised it was running so hot is all. The drive train seems to be running freely enough. The only issue I can think of is that I used a fairly heavy (sticky) grease on the gears. I've used it on all my other cars without issue but maybe the extra drag is just too much for a brushed setup?

I'll need to find a bit of time to take a look and see if there are any other sources of friction going on.

Focussing on the positives though, the concept is sound. I mean, it's hardly original, any club will limit motor power for racing but that combined with a budget limit made for really interesting cars and racing.

Also, just taking the 5 minutes to chalk out a proper circuit made all the difference compared to just blasting around a basic oval. Can't believe I've not done that before.

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As an aside, I also took my TA03 side project out for a very quick test run.

It's far from ready for a proper outing but everything worked just as it should.Apparently it was built 24 years agao and yet, with no maintenance, the shocks remains full of oil and it drove fine. The old analogue servo is comically slow and the ISDT ESC70 I put in it was terrible but otherwise really promising stuff.

Only issue was ground clearance which is just too low for aything other than smooth tarmac.

I found a bit of time yesterday evening and swapped the internal shock spacers from the stock V3 ones to the smaller V1 option. This raises the car by ~5mm and rally blocks will help too. No binding or rubbing in the drivetrain and the suspension feels way better now. I also swapped the front springs for some slightly stiffer ones as the nose kept bottomg out on my test run. Ohh and ball raced the whole car.

I've sourced a torque splitter for it (thanks for the tip @GermanTA03Guy) and will get that fitted some time this week. Daft question, torque splitter (shaft and one way bearing) go in the front and with the 17T pulley on the front and the 15T pulley on the back?

I'm also going to add a second belt tensioner as even the fresh belt I've sourced is running a it 'flappy'.

Big surprise was how fast it is. I ran a stock silver can motor and a 20T pinion (as recomended in the manual for a ball raced car) and it really shifted. Way way faster than my XV01 which further suggests I have some unidentified issue with friction on that car.

I was considering running it on a sport tuned but I'm thinking that may be too fast for circuit racing (at least with my level of skill).

Anyway, I'll probably start a seperate thread on that car as, like I say, it's a side project.

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3 hours ago, Cuiken said:

the ISDT ESC70 I put in it was terrible

That ESC, is great when it works. I must have a run of bad luck as I had a 50% failure rates on mine, 2 out of 4 did not work properly. 

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9 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

That ESC, is great when it works. I must have a run of bad luck as I had a 50% failure rates on mine, 2 out of 4 did not work properly. 

Interesting to hear that. I've actually returned mine. I might start a different thread on this topic.

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This topic did for me. I didn't need another car, but I also knew I wanted a rally car. Back in the day, touring cars didn't exist unless you put a wide body on a buggy. A lot of fun racing my BMW Optima against my mate's Sierra Thundershot.

I've played a little fast and loose with the budget (matches the race surface I guess :D), so probably hitting dead on £200 whilst pulling all the radio gear from my parts store. Will know for sure when I've sorted out tyres (and possibly extra wheels).

But I now have a TT02S on the way, to match up with a 2007 WRX body. Probably doing it box art.

 

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49 minutes ago, Cuiken said:

Interesting to hear that. I've actually returned mine. I might start a different thread on this topic.

Reviews on YouTube and other forums seem to show that there are a lot of quality issues with it. I do love it is programmable, almost like brushless on a brushed. But not getting reverse, or not even coming on, for a brand new ESC is just no on. 

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6 hours ago, Cuiken said:

torque splitter (shaft and one way bearing) go in the front and with the 17T pulley on the front and the 15T pulley on the back?

You can put it where you like, but yes, thats the config that will give you Brake to the rear only and more power to the rear. Which is what i like in rallying. Powerslides and handbrake turns.

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Just now, GermanTA03Guy said:

You can put it where you like, but yes, thats the config that will give you Brake to the rear only and more power to the rear. Which is what i like in rallying. Powerslides and handbrake turns.

Thanks. Looking forward to trying it out.

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2 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Reviews on YouTube and other forums seem to show that there are a lot of quality issues with it. I do love it is programmable, almost like brushless on a brushed. But not getting reverse, or not even coming on, for a brand new ESC is just no on. 

You can get a HW 1080 for a few dollars more and the 1080 is flawless, comes with the program box etc.

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Just now, Pylon80 said:

You can get a HW 1080 for a few dollars more and the 1080 is flawless, comes with the program box etc.

Yeah, I use one in my Kyosho Outlaw......

It's twice the price though (£40 vs £23) and doesn't have the bluetooth programming or throttle curves. Obviously they are moot points though since the basic functions of the ESC70 aren't great.

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1 hour ago, Cuiken said:

Thanks. Looking forward to trying it out.

I have that on my TT-02 rally and it's a huge amount of fun. I have also installed a spool at the back. Setup this way, the car won't post great times on a rally race track but it will be fun to drive it realistically on gravel.

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4 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:

I have that on my TT-02 rally and it's a huge amount of fun. I have also installed a spool at the back. Setup this way, the car won't post great times on a rally race track but it will be fun to drive it realistically on gravel.

The main limit on lap times will be, as ever, my driving skills :)

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1 hour ago, Pylon80 said:

You can get a HW 1080 for a few dollars more and the 1080 is flawless, comes with the program box etc.

I have the 1080 but it does not have wireless programming like the ESC70 or real-time feedback about battery voltage, etc. The ESC70 is great when it work. 

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Whilst I try and scramble to stay in budget (ish), can anyone comment on how well 26mm tyres fit and run on 24mm rims (I'm thinking tamiya rally block on tamiya m-narrow wheels)?

Also a fair amount of my running will be on grass. Well kept, but far from a bowling green. I understand that I'll need to ride height mod my TT02S to something like 25mm and know how to do so. I'm guessing the TT02S cut slicks will fail on such surface, but is there any usable alternative to Tamiya rally block tyres for grass?

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2 hours ago, naturbo2000 said:

Whilst I try and scramble to stay in budget (ish), can anyone comment on how well 26mm tyres fit and run on 24mm rims (I'm thinking tamiya rally block on tamiya m-narrow wheels)?

Also a fair amount of my running will be on grass. Well kept, but far from a bowling green. I understand that I'll need to ride height mod my TT02S to something like 25mm and know how to do so. I'm guessing the TT02S cut slicks will fail on such surface, but is there any usable alternative to Tamiya rally block tyres for grass?

I'd stick to rally blocks for grass:

1. Best grip on off-road surfaces.

2. Slightly larger diameter gives a bit more ride height.

The cheapo soft ones from China seem to have a slightly larger diameter than the genuine tamiya ones too. They are cheap and effective off road but, it turns out, wear out incredibly fast on tarmac. I suspect they'd be fine on 24mm rims, might add a fraction more ot the diameter too which is likely useful for the TT02.

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1 minute ago, Cuiken said:

I'd stick to rally blocks for grass:

1. Best grip on off-road surfaces.

2. Slightly larger diameter gives a bit more ride height.

The cheapo soft ones from China seem to have a slightly larger diameter than the genuine tamiya ones too. They are cheap and effective off road but, it turns out, wear out incredibly fast on tarmac. I suspect they'd be fine on 24mm rims, might add a fraction more ot the diameter too which is likely useful for the TT02.

Sounds good. The type-s comes with a set of tyres that should suffice for tarmac use. 

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2 hours ago, naturbo2000 said:

Whilst I try and scramble to stay in budget (ish), can anyone comment on how well 26mm tyres fit and run on 24mm rims (I'm thinking tamiya rally block on tamiya m-narrow wheels)?

Also a fair amount of my running will be on grass. Well kept, but far from a bowling green. I understand that I'll need to ride height mod my TT02S to something like 25mm and know how to do so. I'm guessing the TT02S cut slicks will fail on such surface, but is there any usable alternative to Tamiya rally block tyres for grass?

Fastrax rally blocks come with wheels and glued for about £10 for 4 or £6 for the tyres only. Works well enough for my TT-01(Ra). They are what I will be using for my entry to this build off. 

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1 minute ago, alvinlwh said:

Fastrax rally blocks come with wheels and glued for about £10 for 4 or £6 for the tyres only. Works well enough for my TT-01(Ra). 

That's a great shout. My mate uses those on a TT02 rally build come to think of it.

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After 5 pages of discussions, I do not see a MF-01X mentioned? Is that one not a good entry? Or does it cost too much to bring it up to specs? If it is similar to my M-05Ra, I had to spend close to £100 to bring it up to "acceptable" standards. CVAs, CVDs, bearings, pinions, steering comes to over £70 IIRC (if bought in the UK). That will probably blow the budget completely? 

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On 9/14/2022 at 1:53 AM, alvinlwh said:

After 5 pages of discussions, I do not see a MF-01X mentioned? Is that one not a good entry? Or does it cost too much to bring it up to specs? If it is similar to my M-05Ra, I had to spend close to £100 to bring it up to "acceptable" standards. CVAs, CVDs, bearings, pinions, steering comes to over £70 IIRC (if bought in the UK). That will probably blow the budget completely? 

You know, it's an interesting shout.

My mate has one though and, despite a couple of hop ups (inc CVAs), it's just so far away from being able to keep up with a TT02 or XV01. Just being that bit smaller and much 'bouncier'  on bumpy surfaces make it a real handful to drive. I've seen a few youtube videos that highlight the same issues and that it's a very difficult chassis to tame.

All that said, it's certainly 'in class' if someone fancies a shot with one.

Being an obsessive sort of chump I now have three possible entries. Initial observations below:

1. XV01 - Such a great chassis. Beautiful handling and definitely among the smoothest of 1/10th cars on bumpy surfaces. Only issue I'm having is getting any speed out of it on a silver can. As previously reported, the motor runs super hot with a 24T pinion. No obvious friction in the drive train but the belt may have been too tight. Dropping back to a 22T pinion and running a slacker belt seems to improve things but the motor still got warm. It's a puzzler.

2. TA03F - I'm pretty besotted with this one and it's worked out super cheap. After selling the unwanted radio etc the car has only cost me £35! I've raised it a little by removing the internal spacers from the shocks, aded fresh ball races and added a front bumper, otherwise it's just as it arrived with me. Total spend £60. Even with a silver can it's way faster than my XV01 and the motor doesn't seem ot get warm at all.I'm puzzled but delighted. Handling wise, it's like a road oriented XV01 (no surprise there). Corners beautifully but a bit less composed on bumpy surfaces. I have high hopes that this can be tuned out though.

3. TA02 - I went for the used TA02 on ebay (just got too curious). I've not actually run it yet (only turned up last night) but the chassis looks simple and robust. Shocks are weirdly set up though. Really limited travel because they include both the V1 and V3 spacers in the build.  The oil in them also seems far to light. I'll rebuild with fewer spacers and thicker oil and report back. It's relative simplicity makes me suspect it's handling may not be quite on par with the TA03 but, mid/rear motor will still be interesting and the shaft drive can only be more reliable.

Happy rallying this weekend if your cars are sorted.

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5 hours ago, Cuiken said:

All that said, it's certainly 'in class' if someone fancies a shot with one.

I am tempted to put one in as a second entry but will need to total up the essentials upgrade to see if it will blow the budget first. Or a CC-01. Choices... 

5 hours ago, Cuiken said:

Happy rallying this weekend if your cars are sorted.

My TA-02 will not be started until after my holiday next month as I have some hopups to pick up, mainly the thrust bearing, which just arrived today! 😁

PpPtce1.jpg

 

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Is the thrust bearing mandatory? Wondering if I can get away without it if running a silver can motor.

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1 minute ago, Cuiken said:

Is the thrust bearing mandatory? Wondering if I can get away without it if running a silver can motor.

IDK, it was recommended and for £2+, it is hardly going to blow my budget so I went for it. 

 

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