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GTodd

Going racing with a TRF511

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I’ve been on the fence about getting a DB01 type car to race at my local track for near three years now.  A few weeks ago while the family was away i dusted off the TF EVO charged the lipos and went to a open test day. It broke before the first pack was dry. Rear hub carrier snapped after landing a jump.  Shop has TA02 hubs I made work. Next pack, steering bell crank broke after tangling with another car.  The parts were rere parts not old and brittle and still broke. 
 

I decided it was time for a “modern” car. I’ve read that the modern TRFs are rugged, and Lee Martin won the worlds 10 years ago with the 511. I like Tamiya and love the quality so TRF it is. I tried to find a 503 as it was the last revolution, no one is selling them, same for the 502 as it was shaft drive, same.

I asked around on the TRF Facebook page and in a day I had purchased a 511. It just arrived from Sweden and looks to be mint.  I’ve purchase (3) sets of belts, 3 sets of front hubs , 4 sets of arms and a spare steering set! 
 

I’ll be running it in the 13.5 stock class with a reedy black box and shorty lipo. Will upgrade the HI shocks to the big bores that were on the EVO, install the double slipper, and gear diffs. 
 

The car should still be competitive, the only big difference with todays buggies is they’ve gone back to shaft drive, but I like belts they are More forgiving. And the new cars have what looks like 1/8 scale shocks otherwise everything looks the same. Come along for the ride! 

If anyone has a upgrade kit collecting dust please advise!!!!

 

 

Tzlppik.jpg

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I always loved the 511, and desperately wanted one back when I raced indoor carpet.  It was never in the cards money-wise though, and I ended up with a Durga (it's little bro) instead.  You're a lucky guy!  Have fun with it!

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3 hours ago, GTodd said:

I’ve read that the modern TRFs are rugged, and Lee Martin won the worlds 10 years ago with the 511. 

With the 511 Lee Martin placed 7th at the 2011 Worlds, and 10th in 2013.

He won the European Championship with the 511 in 2011. 

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Double slipper Clutch ordered, spares wheels ordered, Tamiya option hexes ordered and parts box purchased. Tare down tonight, with no real gear boxes it won’t take long. Will be swapping out the installed ball differentials for the gear diffs (built to Lee Martin Clay specs) as well as swapping the HI dampers for the Big Bores.

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Update: got the 503 metal pulley installed, I have the dual slipper to install But it needs another part, ordered from Tamiya USA but I’ll run it as is first. Gear diffs installed, 7k in front and 5k in the rear. I went to install the big bores with 35 shock oil In the front and 30 in the rear. BUT I forgot I had these in my EVO And used rears front and back, 511 shock tower is shorter so the actual fronts are needed, also ordered. Will be here before I run. Lastly installed tamiya hexes front and rear and tamiya white wheels! Just cut the body, now time to mask it!!!  Pics shortly. 

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Ok ime for pics :).  hers the front with the current installed rare optioned HI shocks, kind of interesting items, I didn’t even know they existed. I’ve got big bore fronts on the way. The HIs will be set up with the same oil as the big bores and will keep as back ups.

Mrh7Rhy.jpg

Rear big bores, man they are just so smooth and so sexy! Also take note of the gear dfferential installed. 

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TRF503 metal gear installed, had to use bronze bushings to space out while I wait for the parts from Tamiya USA, will most likely go dual slipper route.

xEvMViX.jpg

and lastly....masking a body, the worst!

QiHXymE.jpg

 

 

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Wow, took the TRF511 out for a test run before the race tonight (I’m not racing just yet) it’s a waaaaaay better car than I’m a driver. It’s currently set up with big bores, dual slipper, gear diffs, and reedy 13.5.  It kept up just fine with the new stuff on the strait. Cleared doubles with easy, and boy does it fly nicely! I had the wrong tires so was fighting under steer. And man is it strong! I crashed more times than I care to admit, and it shook it off.  Please excuse the amateur hour paint job, I’ve got a pro One coming.

6E4007C9-3806-41A8-A48B-E0FF98882CD7.jpeg

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Post track day tear down complete. No bent rods, no leaking shocks, but the front diff had a leak. Replaced and will rebuild with green goo, new TA06 gears and gaskets.   Fun car, reminds me of the 801s in its toughness and and sheer footedness.

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I went back to the track this weekend for more Tuning, installed some Jconcepts silvers. I’m still fighting some understeer. I’m going to drop the rear sway bar and put in lighter differential oil out back. I was going to at the track but my motor began cutting out. So now I have (3) issues to solve. Cutting out brushless, leaking front diff, and understeer.

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Gah this is like working on my full scale rwce

cars. Always something. Took the car to the track to test the latest set up, cross wired the darn lipo, fried the Esc. Glad I got a spare, lipo good to go. Until next week…..

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On 9/27/2022 at 5:21 AM, GTodd said:

I went back to the track this weekend for more Tuning, installed some Jconcepts silvers. I’m still fighting some understeer. I’m going to drop the rear sway bar and put in lighter differential oil out back. I was going to at the track but my motor began cutting out. So now I have (3) issues to solve. Cutting out brushless, leaking front diff, and understeer.

Lighter rear oil and removing the sway bar is more likely to increase understeer.

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I was thinking that, as wouldnt the sway bar increase oversteer? Someone on the TRF face book said go light on the rear differential as it would alow it to rotate. But wouldn’t a lighter oil alow it to grip more causing it to get more traction?

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5 hours ago, GTodd said:

I was thinking that, as wouldnt the sway bar increase oversteer? Someone on the TRF face book said go light on the rear differential as it would alow it to rotate. But wouldn’t a lighter oil alow it to grip more causing it to get more traction?

There are so many different opinions out there about setup, many of which have no basis in physics, that I don't bother getting involved in the discussions any more. Just try things and see what difference you notice is my best advice.

The increments between setup changes on modern cars is tiny, the reality is that most people aren't actually noticing a difference beyond track evolution.

Buggy racing is very much a tyre class, if you're on the right tyres you are 90% of the way there, kit suspension settings should not be far off (TRF511 probably has dirt settings out of the box, astro/carpet would be stiffer settings and that is where a 511 would struggle because more modern cars allow you to get away with quite extreme ride heights for high grip surfaces). You need the car to ride the bumps and have a friendly behaviour over jumps. If the car has major understeer that can't be solved with a minor spring rate change or a tweak to the rear toe in then I'd be looking at your build or your driving style. instead.

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1 hour ago, sosidge said:

There are so many different opinions out there about setup, many of which have no basis in physics, that I don't bother getting involved in the discussions any more. Just try things and see what difference you notice is my best advice.

The increments between setup changes on modern cars is tiny, the reality is that most people aren't actually noticing a difference beyond track evolution.

Buggy racing is very much a tyre class, if you're on the right tyres you are 90% of the way there, kit suspension settings should not be far off (TRF511 probably has dirt settings out of the box, astro/carpet would be stiffer settings and that is where a 511 would struggle because more modern cars allow you to get away with quite extreme ride heights for high grip surfaces). You need the car to ride the bumps and have a friendly behaviour over jumps. If the car has major understeer that can't be solved with a minor spring rate change or a tweak to the rear toe in then I'd be looking at your build or your driving style. instead.

Ha I couldn’t agree more! I’ve set the car up base in set up sheets on petite Rc from TRF driver. Good tips here. I’m on the tires everyone on the track uses and the shocks I think are near perfect. This thing handles jumps and bumps so Nicely! I’m going ti stiffen the rear diff as that just makes sense in order to help it rotate!

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On 10/3/2022 at 8:51 PM, GTodd said:

Ha I couldn’t agree more! I’ve set the car up base in set up sheets on petite Rc from TRF driver. Good tips here. I’m on the tires everyone on the track uses and the shocks I think are near perfect. This thing handles jumps and bumps so Nicely! I’m going ti stiffen the rear diff as that just makes sense in order to help it rotate!

Just my 2p-worth: Rotate is one of those words that needs context in my opinion. A stiffer rear diff IN THEORY will tend to make the car harder to turn in/less rotation/understeer on entry, but then if you do manage to get the front end gripping through braking or tires, stiffer diff promotes easier sliding/oversteer/rotation on the exit of the corner. A more open diff is the opposite.

So, it depends on where in the corner you are talking about the car rotating. If you have the right driving technique to nail the front into the apex, a stiffer diff will rotate the car very quickly apex-to-exit because you will be able to pick up the throttle harder and the diff effect will transit the power with minimum slip. A more open diff will tend to rotate the corner upon braking, earlier in the corner, entry-to-apex. 

However, as Sosidge rightly points out, tyres are the big thing. On road when I was first trying to get into it, I would take peoples' advice and get nowhere. I'm not that great a driver and I just need to do what worked for me. At one point that was a quick wildly differing setup front to rear - different tyres, way different springs etc. It wasn't what anyone would recommend, but it got the car working for me. If you're fighting understeer, is there a lower grip rear tire option? Try getting less grip overall but better balance? 

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Great post and tips thank you. I’m getting corner entry understeer. Once I’m in the corner I can nail the apex and power through.  Maybe I should drop the dual slipper and go to the one way.

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@GTodd I had a front one way in my DB01. Worth a try if you have one. It takes a bit of getting used to, but I really liked it on astro. This was just running laps rather than racing though, so you might want more consistency in a pack of other cars. 

Have you tried playing with the roll centres. My HUDY setup guide says for corner entry understeer, first port of call after sway bars is raising the front roll centre and/or lowering the rear roll centre. If you have solid traction, maybe stiffer rear springs? Should tend to improve turn in and if you have plenty of traction hopefully won't compromise grip on exit.

If you have practice time, just try stuff until it works. 

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Thanks man! I’m using the Tamiya Big Bore Blue springs in the rear. I think there is a stiffer one I can try.. I appreciate the set up sheet!

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Just got back from a test session. It’s pretty much dialed in. What did I do? I put 5k oil in the front diff, 10k in the rear mounted, and put the shocks in the most inside position on the rear and tried using a softer spring on the front shock (red). The car turned in right now but was too soft in the front with the red spring effecting jumping ability.  Went back to the blue spring up front and balanced out the car using spring height.  Im still getting somE oil leakage from the diffs but I can’t see where.  Car seems to be as fast as the other guys running stock motors. It’s now down to me and learning the track and improving my driving. Car now turns in well, I get on power understeer so I need to get it turned in and than accelerate. It jumps VERY well,  and lands smooth.  

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3 hours ago, GTodd said:

Proper body just showed up!!!!

F4E63589-3537-416C-9016-AA3ECA596E1C.jpeg

Nice!

Is that a factory produced body in TRF colours, or did you commission it or find one for sale? 

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Yep factory body in team colors. Had a vent from across the pond paint it up. Once I can get through a pack with out crashing it’ll be my race body in the mean time I’ll use the other body that I failed at painting. Might get a 501 body next. It’s grown on me over the last 15 years 😀

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