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Juls’s XV-02 pro in depth build - weight bias info page 2.

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Looking forward to the end-build! And the weight bias data. 

Also quick question. I know i have read it somewhere but forgotten, but may i ask if the XV-02 has different body mounting positions than say, the XV-01?

 

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14 minutes ago, BruiseWayn said:

Looking forward to the end-build! And the weight bias data. 

Also quick question. I know i have read it somewhere but forgotten, but may i ask if the XV-02 has different body mounting positions than say, the XV-01?

 

Yes XV02 post are further forward. Rear posts in the same spot

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2 hours ago, BruiseWayn said:

Looking forward to the end-build! And the weight bias data. 

Also quick question. I know i have read it somewhere but forgotten, but may i ask if the XV-02 has different body mounting positions than say, the XV-01?

 

Yeah front is different I’m toying with getting a second rear tower to see if a standard setup is possible. The issue is if you can get the bonnet low enough. 

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So moving onto the shocks. 

First up lets compare stock XV01 Shocks with stock XV02 shocks. You'll see the stock XV01 made use of 11mm of damper travel, the XV02 we jump up 6mm to 17mm stroke. Where with the XV01 the stock dampers didn't use the full capability of the suspension design and modding was popular, the XV02 is completely maxed out from the factory. 

spacer.png

Here we compare the XV02 Damper with the popular mod for the XV01 the GF01 Damper, where the XV02 is limited to 17mm stroke due to drivetrain issues, the GF01 damper pumps out 18mm of stroke which cannot be used entirely on the XV01 without Mods, but can be done with lots of cutting and grinding. What is a bit frustrating here is that they could have gotten away with the GF01 (CC01) dampers instead of using the DF03 front dampers, why would that be better? Because the stock setup the body mounts are moved away from the tower to the bumper in order to allow the body to be placed low enough due to the tall towers. This is a pain because most Tamiya rally body's already have holes in the shock tower position. If they had gone with the GF01 style damper then it's likely we could have kept the standard body mount position without any loss of suspension travel. So why did they do this? Well there is no hopup from the GF01 damper currently, but from the DF03 Front we can upgrade to the Front big bore buggy dampers, maybe thats the rational? but I would have preferred to have been able to drop my XV01 bodys onto my XV02 chassis personally. 

spacer.png 

Here is a Comparison of all the XV dampers set at their max stroke, keep in mind the XV02 is limited by its driveshafts falling out at around the 17mm stroke mark. The XV01 is limited by the droop stops and it's steering, lots of grinding of suspension parts can bring this out to 17/18mm. Keep in mind however the stock XV01 only runs 11mm of stroke.

spacer.png

Now we have that out of the way, lets compare the stock XV02 dampers (DF03 front) to the Big bores. The big bores are noticeably more complicated and are emulsion type (air mixed with oil) compared to the stock dampers which have bladders (air separated from oil). 

spacer.png

The Big bores are quite a bit fatter, and do have nicer parts as standard. They carry a fair bit more oil and can be run on slightly lighter oil due to the reduction of oil bypass this means pack can occur more consistently, thus you can run lighter damping with the same bottom out control. 

spacer.png

The Big bores are so much fatter in fact, that the stock XV02 Damper bodys fit inside the big bore damper body!

spacer.png

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@Juls1 when you get a spare few mins could you let us know what the free length is measured for the XV02 springs please.

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4 hours ago, Superluminal said:

@Juls1 when you get a spare few mins could you let us know what the free length is measured for the XV02 springs please.

They are identical to the front springs on all tamiya buggy’s and the long damper version of the XV01. I actually reckon the xv02 spring kit is just the front springs out of the DF03 spring kit without change. (Given they are for the same damper and they look identical it only makes sense) 
 

so trf501 and trf201 front springs are the same size. Most of the old school rally cars that came with hi cap mini (not super mini) came with the same size spring, in fact there is a pair included in 50519. Long story short pretty much all tamiya front buggy springs for 10mm body dampers will fit. 

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Ok, as the buggy ones i have look to be a slightly larger diameter than the standard CVA mini spring anddamper body.So are the long ones in that 50519 set approx 50mm long? It just notes on their packaging "coil spring long" and its difficult to judge the scale from the pics.

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The springs included with Xv02, xv01ld, df03 dampers, aeration dampers etc are all 40mm long, 15mm external 13mm internal. 
 

the longer spring in the 50519 which is the standard front spring on DT01/2/3 df02/3 (rear spring on cc01, standard springs on TA02T and others) are slighter shorter at 36mm x 15 x 13mm. 
 

yes there is room on the standard xv02 dampers for a 50mm spring. But tamiya don’t offer it for the narrow body. 

Juls

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So finally gotten back to this. 
dampers are fitted up, tamiya have pretty much maxed out the suspension limits from the word go. The main limitation is the driveshaft in the diff out drive, if the suspension is made any longer the dogbone will fall out. 
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I ended up option for white springs no7 piston and 20w oil as a starting point for out the back.
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Up front I went with the black spring no 6 piston and 20wt oil as a starting point.

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interestingly the front sway bar passes through the shock spring. I’m sure this probably doesn’t happen with the stock shocks, it’s just a issue with the big bores. It isn’t a deal breaker though the sway bar seems to stay between the coils throughout the travel so it doesn’t cause any problems I can see so far. Will see with a bit of use. spacer.png

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So next up we have to fit the electronics, I couldn’t resist just half *** slapping them in to get a weight distribution measurement to see really what we are up against vs the xv01. 
spacer.png

So the good old xv01 comes up at 59/41 front/rear weight, in the past when I’ve done this it’s been 60/40. But either way it’s not a surprise to anyone that she’s front heavy. 
spacer.png

now onto the XV02, we still have some front bias, with a 53/47 ratio things are much more balanced. This car is certainly going to be a better rally racer. But is it going to be as much fun for regular bashers as the xv01? 

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On 10/2/2022 at 5:14 AM, Juls1 said:

So moving onto the shocks. 

First up lets compare stock XV01 Shocks with stock XV02 shocks. You'll see the stock XV01 made use of 11mm of damper travel, the XV02 we jump up 6mm to 17mm stroke. Where with the XV01 the stock dampers didn't use the full capability of the suspension design and modding was popular, the XV02 is completely maxed out from the factory. 

spacer.png

Here we compare the XV02 Damper with the popular mod for the XV01 the GF01 Damper, where the XV02 is limited to 17mm stroke due to drivetrain issues, the GF01 damper pumps out 18mm of stroke which cannot be used entirely on the XV01 without Mods, but can be done with lots of cutting and grinding. What is a bit frustrating here is that they could have gotten away with the GF01 (CC01) dampers instead of using the DF03 front dampers, why would that be better? Because the stock setup the body mounts are moved away from the tower to the bumper in order to allow the body to be placed low enough due to the tall towers. This is a pain because most Tamiya rally body's already have holes in the shock tower position. If they had gone with the GF01 style damper then it's likely we could have kept the standard body mount position without any loss of suspension travel. So why did they do this? Well there is no hopup from the GF01 damper currently, but from the DF03 Front we can upgrade to the Front big bore buggy dampers, maybe thats the rational? but I would have preferred to have been able to drop my XV01 bodys onto my XV02 chassis personally. 

spacer.png 

Here is a Comparison of all the XV dampers set at their max stroke, keep in mind the XV02 is limited by its driveshafts falling out at around the 17mm stroke mark. The XV01 is limited by the droop stops and it's steering, lots of grinding of suspension parts can bring this out to 17/18mm. Keep in mind however the stock XV01 only runs 11mm of stroke.

spacer.png

Now we have that out of the way, lets compare the stock XV02 dampers (DF03 front) to the Big bores. The big bores are noticeably more complicated and are emulsion type (air mixed with oil) compared to the stock dampers which have bladders (air separated from oil). 

spacer.png

The Big bores are quite a bit fatter, and do have nicer parts as standard. They carry a fair bit more oil and can be run on slightly lighter oil due to the reduction of oil bypass this means pack can occur more consistently, thus you can run lighter damping with the same bottom out control. 

spacer.png

The Big bores are so much fatter in fact, that the stock XV02 Damper bodys fit inside the big bore damper body!

spacer.png

Love this break down, priceless documented info 👌🏻👌🏻

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On 10/30/2022 at 10:14 PM, Juls1 said:

So next up we have to fit the electronics, I couldn’t resist just half *** slapping them in to get a weight distribution measurement to see really what we are up against vs the xv01. 
spacer.png

So the good old xv01 comes up at 59/41 front/rear weight, in the past when I’ve done this it’s been 60/40. But either way it’s not a surprise to anyone that she’s front heavy. 
spacer.png

now onto the XV02, we still have some front bias, with a 53/47 ratio things are much more balanced. This car is certainly going to be a better rally racer. But is it going to be as much fun for regular bashers as the xv01? 

@Juls1.... you Sir, are the man.

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On 10/31/2022 at 12:11 AM, NM Frontier said:

That car is looking good! Interested to hear how you like the big boars.Keep it up!

The big bores are a significant step up in fit and finish and ultimately performance. but for their price I think there is other areas you can spend money first. Only when you’ve done everything else and you’ve got spare cash laying around would I consider buying them.  
 

I’ve run these shocks on DB0’s so I’ve had prior experience but for this build it was as much as anything about going all out for the build thread. 
 

I don’t regret the purchase that’s for sure. But given a set is almost half the cost of the car (or nearly double what a TT02 would cost entirely) not everyone would be able to justify the spend especially when the kit comes with fantastic shocks to begin with. 

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1 hour ago, Juls1 said:

The big bores are a significant step up in fit and finish and ultimately performance. but for their price I think there is other areas you can spend money first. Only when you’ve done everything else and you’ve got spare cash laying around would I consider buying them.  
 

I’ve run these shocks on DB0’s so I’ve had prior experience but for this build it was as much as anything about going all out for the build thread. 
 

I don’t regret the purchase that’s for sure. But given a set is almost half the cost of the car (or nearly double what a TT02 would cost entirely) not everyone would be able to justify the spend especially when the kit comes with fantastic shocks to begin with. 

I really like this in-depth thread, thanks for sharing all of this! Looking forward to your first running impressions.

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On 9/21/2022 at 8:23 AM, Juls1 said:

Yeah front is different I’m toying with getting a second rear tower to see if a standard setup is possible. The issue is if you can get the bonnet low enough. 

I did that on mine, it works if you use the TT02 smaller offset posts.

The front ends up a bit high, less than in the XV01 Long Damper, but a bit high anyway. I doesnt bother me for dirt running, but aesthetically its not perfect.

 

XV02.jpg

XV02B.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Kalamity said:

I did that on mine, it works if you use the TT02 smaller offset posts.

The front ends up a bit high, less than in the XV01 Long Damper, but a bit high anyway. I doesnt bother me for dirt running, but aesthetically its not perfect.

 

XV02.jpg

XV02B.jpg

I did have a bit of a play but decided against it because as you say we can’t get the body low enough. 
 

I hope someone like embie racing might make us a shorter tower with the body mount in it that we can use with GF01 shocks up front. Won’t lose any suspension travel at all just gain the standard body post position. 

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When going for aesthetics my plan is to use magnetic mounts on the front posts (fender) so that I dont have to drill more holes in my bodies...

By the way, congratulations on this post, excellent work, very useful and lots of ideas, thank you very much!!

8 hours ago, Juls1 said:

I did have a bit of a play but decided against it because as you say we can’t get the body low enough. 
 

I hope someone like embie racing might make us a shorter tower with the body mount in it that we can use with GF01 shocks up front. Won’t lose any suspension travel at all just gain the standard body post position. 

 

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48 minutes ago, toyolien said:

@Juls1 Did you manage to find the part number for the alloy cross pins you used in the diffs?

683D8512-6778-4031-9661-12895E1BF5F5.jpg

I have some 19804852 which I “think” are the right ones. 

when they get here Monday I’ll confirm. 
the ones in that diff picture come with the new xv02/TT02 diff that I used as the center diff. This new diff is said to use TRF419 gears so I’m taking a leap assuming the cross pins will be TRF419 units. 

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8 minutes ago, Juls1 said:

I have some 19804852 which I “think” are the right ones. 

when they get here Monday I’ll confirm. 
the ones in that diff picture come with the new xv02/TT02 diff that I used as the center diff. This new diff is said to use TRF419 gears so I’m taking a leap assuming the cross pins will be TRF419 units. 

Excellent thank you. I'll look at the 419 manual to see if I can find a part number. 

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On 11/11/2022 at 10:07 PM, toyolien said:

Excellent thank you. I'll look at the 419 manual to see if I can find a part number. 

It’s not using the same diff cases just the same gears. So until I try it, it’s just a guess at this stage. 

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