The Kyosho Car Crusher thread

[Crazy L 56]

I don't know if this is allowed, but I thought I'd start a thread regarding these slightly maligned cars.  Not as popular as anything Tamiya knocked out, and possibly worse design wise, but that said, I don't see a lot of love for the Big Brute, Big Boss, Hi-Rider Corvete, Double Dare, and to shoehorn another in, the USA-!.

Show us your trucks.  Time to stop treating them like an embarrassment. 

[Saito2 6686]

I have a ridiculous amount of these trucks. All told, I have a runner Big Boss, a shelfer Big Boss, a German market Blue "The Boss" version project, a Big Brute shelfer project and Big Brute runner project and a USA-1 project that I'm up in air about, a runner Double Dare and a shelfer Double Dare project. I have no interest in the Hi Rider Vette though, which is odd considering I own a 1:1 Corvette and restored them professionally for years. I think I did a big dissection thread on one of my Big Bosses awhile back. No embarrassment here, lol. @Ferruz has a nice Big Boss he got BITD that still sees regular action, which is awesome.

[Crazy L 56]

Wow @Saito2, some serious Car Crusher love going on right there.  I bought my Big Brute as a project about 18 months ago.  Got it finished, made a cool video, and have been driving it since.  I have a periodic nosey to see if anyone else has done anything recently, but to no avail.  That is the prompt for this thread, to get us all in one place and spread the joy of these very overlooked trucks.

Here's a pic of mine when I unboxed it::

[Crazy L 56]

Versus now it's "finished":

 

 

OK, not a good shot for showing it off, but nice and arty.

[Crazy L 56]

I do have a question though.  I'm after putting a quicker motor in it.  Nothing mental, but just something with more zest than the mabuchi it currently yields.  Staying brushed too to retain its retro charm.  Was looking at the Holmes motors, but am stuck for what wind to go for.  Had thought of just getting the 15t and turning the power down if its silly,  or, getting the modest 20t, as it's gonna be quicker but not enough to mash up my gearbox hopefully.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[bRIBEGuy 3044]

Holmes stuff is generally really good, and a 15t might be too much power.  I'd run the 20t personally...

[Crazy L 56]

58 minutes ago, bRIBEGuy said:

Holmes stuff is generally really good, and a 15t might be too much power.  I'd run the 20t personally...

Thanks @bRIBEGuy, pretty much confirming my original thoughts there.

[Grumpy pants 4478]

I’m pretty sure @mongoose1983 is a big fan as well if these 👍

[Grumpy pants 4478]

And @markbt73 as well 💥

[Saito2 6686]

On 9/7/2022 at 7:05 AM, Crazy L said:

I do have a question though.  I'm after putting a quicker motor in it.  Nothing mental, but just something with more zest than the mabuchi it currently yields.  Staying brushed too to retain its retro charm.  Was looking at the Holmes motors, but am stuck for what wind to go for.  Had thought of just getting the 15t and turning the power down if its silly,  or, getting the modest 20t, as it's gonna be quicker but not enough to mash up my gearbox hopefully.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

One thing to keep in mind is the motor can length if the motors you are looking at are 550 size. I was thinking of putting a Traxxas Titan 21T sealed endbell motor in my Big Boss but the extra long motor can hit the small tie rod that blocks off the rear steer on the 2WS models. Depending on the pinion you run or if the motor has an open endbell, you might be ok. The old Kyosho Mega 360 motors (actually a re-labeled 360ST) found in the USA-1 were open endbell and should fit. I'm actually considering very mild brushless as the truck seems a bit shy on torque, taking a while to work up to full speed on dirt. 

I've been through those gearboxes several times and I think you're right to go conservatively on power. The gears aren't molded all that precisely (I've seen some out-of-round even). I was taken aback at the 100% plastic outdrives and dogbones but was assured by others here that they weren't all that bad. Indeed, they were correct and I was quite wrong in my fears, though I've seen used parts in my collection simply worn down (but not broken) from being unreinforced plastic.

[RushRebel 98]

Thanks for starting this thread, I look forward to seeing pics of these classics. My first hobby-grade build was a Kyosho Big Boss, summer of 1991. It was a great truck, especially after upgrading to oil shocks and a faster motor. I always babied the cars my parents got me because of the big money they shelled out for them. This was the first kit I bought with my own money and I drove it like I stole it.  These trucks have a bad reputation for being fragile, but mine had no bearings, stock plastic driveshafts, and nothing ever broke. Compared to my buddies Blackfoot, this was a tank.

Probably unlikely, but if Kyosho ever does a proper rerelease of these, I'm scooping them all up.

[Saito2 6686]

Compared to Kyosho's racier products and even the Blackfoot, the Car Crusher series was very plastic. As I've come to know the trucks more, I think they may be greater than the sum of their parts. I also think I was also just accustomed to the Blackfoot's faults and didn't consider them from a fresh perspective. Each has their pros and cons and despite the Brute being aimed squarely at the 'Foot, they are quite different beast. Being Frog-based means the Blackfoot is a bit more lithe and nimble which probably was a factor in making it one of the most popular trucks to race on track here in the States before being shut out by the conversion trucks. The 2wd Kyosho trucks are bigger, seem quite solid and drive like trucks. Not bad, but different. With its less precise steering, somewhat slower speeds and sheer mass, the Car Crushers won't be confused for some buggy in monster truck's clothing (despite sharing some drivetrain parts with things like the Icarus).

Some of the issues I've run into with the Car Crushers include:

Bent axles. If managed to straighten them, but some of the parts trucks I've acquired had bent stub axles.

Stripped/Slipping drivecups. Kyosho molded plastic drivecups over metal axles. As the plastic ages, sometimes the axle segment can spin in the cup.

Loose/worn front ball joints.

Cracked wheel adapters, from overtightening the wheel nut

Front knuckle breakage. Big Brutes and early Double Dares were prone to this. My Big Bosses have extra material molded around the ball joint anchor points to cut down on cracks/stripping. Never had an issue with my Bosses.

USA-1 specific: 

Chassis cracks at the gearbox attachment points.

Twisted (but not broken) plastic dogbones from prior abuse.

Overall, nothing really worse than the Blackfoot. Just different problems in some cases. Most failures seem to come from the earliest example, the Big Brute, (Big Bosses seem to have the kinks ironed out) and most critics like to attack the Double Dare and USA-1 as being inferior to the Clod Buster. Truth be told, other than the twin motor 4wd/4ws bit, the Clod is a very different truck and built very stout (aside from chassis cracks). However, if we squint when looking back at RC history, do future hits like the Emaxx share some vague past with the independently sprung USA-1? Maybe(?)

[Ferruz 11702]

Cool topic, and definitely no embarrassment here either  on the contrary, just last week on another thread asking "which car you would keep if you could only have one" I found myself replying: "my Big Boss!".

2 hours ago, Saito2 said:

 As I've come to know the trucks more, I think they may be greater than the sum of their parts

Even though my knowledge of these trucks isn't comparable to yours, having only owned one, I totally agree with this. There may be a lot of plastic at a first look, but man, they are done right. They stand the test of time, what better proof than that? Personally, I run my 30+ y old Big Boss a lot, and only lately I'm taking it easy on the roughness to respect its age. I ran it very hard for years, and with just a few home made tweaks the track became very reliable and tough as a tank. That being said, I think it's a good idea not to exagerate with the power. The maximum I've done on mine was a brushed HPI Firebolt 15T, the car was so fast with it! But I wanted it to live, so I switched back to the old reliable Le Mans before anything major happened.

@Crazy L if you feel like reading, here's the full, nostalgia-packed story of my Big Boss 

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=136941&id=51883

And a few recent photos, from less than 24h ago

[markbt73 5315]

10 hours ago, Grumpy pants said:

And @markbt73 as well 💥

I've never actually had one. I keep looking at them, but I only really like the Double Dare and the Hi-Rider Vette, and they never come up for sale. Someday, maybe...

[Crazy L 56]

12 hours ago, Saito2 said:

One thing to keep in mind is the motor can length if the motors you are looking at are 550 size. I was thinking of putting a Traxxas Titan 21T sealed endbell motor in my Big Boss but the extra long motor can hit the small tie rod that blocks off the rear steer on the 2WS models. Depending on the pinion you run or if the motor has an open endbell, you might be ok.

I think I might get away with it either way.  I noticed when running my Big Brute, that under acceleration and rear suspension compression, the rear wheels give toe out, due to the steering link lockout and the way the hub is orientated.  I have overcome this by swapping things around, in a tidy manner of course.  Now, under acceleration and compression, the rear gives a little toe in , which makes it handle a gnats chuff better.  Also, which I hadn't thought of until you mentioned it above, gives more clearance in the event of 550 can usage.

[Saito2 6686]

Perfect @Crazy L. Now I can give that 550 a shot.

[Crazy L 56]

I ordered a motor by the way.  I opted to play safe but still have fun and went for the Holmes 21t motor.  I also ordered a HW 1060 esc, as my Brute is currently housing a Tamiya TB something something, which doesn't like anything hotter than 27t. 

[Crazy L 56]

Thought I'd post up a pic of my Big Brute in flight.  Apologies for the slightly grainy image, it's a still from the video I made.

[Crazy L 56]

A brief history of how my current Big Brute came in to being.  I was 12. and got the rc bug by seeing a car "up the garages" being driven around.  So fancied one, bought a Taiyo something from my local Beatties with my birthday money, then saw the kit boxes in the flesh instead of my mums catalogue, so wanted one.  Bought a Tamiya catalogue and felll in love with the Lunchbox.

Saved up all my money for about a year, and when it came to buy one, the local model shop (Fratton Bargain Shop, RIP) had sold out, bu they had a Big Brute, slightly faded box, clearly been there a while and hadn't sold.  I ended up buying it.  Years went by, I got into buggies and racing, bigger buggies and more racing.  Then I discovered this site when I was still living at home, but an adult (crap paying job, could afford owt else)/

Vintage thing happened, did an Iconic Revival meet back in '15 with a parts bin Top Force.

Fancied something as a resto but not prepared or able to spend ridiculous money, saw a Big Brute on Ebay, bit of a nail really, and thought why not, was the first kit car I ever owned.  Here we are. 

[Crazy L 56]

On 9/7/2022 at 11:45 PM, Saito2 said:

Some of the issues I've run into with the Car Crushers include:

Bent axles. If managed to straighten them, but some of the parts trucks I've acquired had bent stub axles.

Stripped/Slipping drivecups. Kyosho molded plastic drivecups over metal axles. As the plastic ages, sometimes the axle segment can spin in the cup.

Loose/worn front ball joints.

Cracked wheel adapters, from overtightening the wheel nut

USA-1 specific: 

Chassis cracks at the gearbox attachment points.

Twisted (but not broken) plastic dogbones from prior abuse.

Overall, nothing really worse than the Blackfoot. Just different problems in some cases. Most failures seem to come from the earliest example, the Big Brute, (Big Bosses seem to have the kinks ironed out) and most critics like to attack the Double Dare and USA-1 as being inferior to the Clod Buster. Truth be told, other than the twin motor 4wd/4ws bit, the Clod is a very different truck and built very stout (aside from chassis cracks). However, if we squint when looking back at RC history, do future hits like the Emaxx share some vague past with the independently sprung USA-1? Maybe(?)

I've not encountered the stripped drivecups or bent stub axles......yet.  The ball joints on my current Big Brute are a little sloppy mind.  2 Wheel adaptors were broken when I got my truck, so I slyly milled up an ali set in work time, with work materials, all in the spirit of "perks of the job".  The battery tray/chassis stiffener also had a bit broken off so I machined a nice ali one of those too, making it possible to fit 26mm thick lipos without washers or owt like that, and still keeping eh stock plastic end stops.

As for Driveshafts.  Mine were pretty work out.  so I taught myself a different CAD package, then designed my own, and a few goes on the printer later later, I have steel reinforced plastic dogbones.  About 11 months old now and still going strong.  Was thinking of seeing if anyone wanted to buy a pair or two, if so, PM me.

I'm using an RW racing pinion in my transmission.  I also ballraced the whole thing, even the tiny bushings that were an odd size have been replaced with bearings. 

[Saito2 6686]

Found a pic of my Brute resto in progress. Working on a repro body for it at the moment, but the chassis is restored.

Here's a pic of a goofy project is was fiddling with. Its a Tamiya WR01 modified to evoke to old Kyosho trucks.

[Crazy L 56]

18 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Found a pic of my Brute resto in progress. Working on a repro body for it at the moment, but the chassis is restored.

I like it.  I see you have the side steps and rear "bumper" still intact.  I had only one side step for mine, and the rear bumper is missing a prong, so I've not attached them.  I am in the middle of CAD-ing up a replica rear bumper.  Based on the OE item, so I can print it and bolt one on.  Unfortunately, I went to print something last night, and my printer went a bit Pete, so I have to get to the bottom of that first.

The Tamiya looks cool too.  Has that intended air of retro about it.  What are those wheels and tyres off?  A Stampede?

[Crazy L 56]

@Ferruz, I read your article.  A good read, and quite indicative I imagine, of how some folks fall out of RC then rediscover it again later on.  Regarding your charger, I had a similar situation.  I had a 12v charger too, but mine had a wind up timer on it, which went up to 15 minutes.  It had a cigarette lighter plug on the end as it intended to be used in a car.  So I unscrewed the plug, and used my dads car battery charger to supply it with 12v via the mains and my dads chargers crocodile clips.  A bit dodgy, but it worked.  I had one lousy 1200mah nicad at the time too.

 

P.S, your photos on your post aren't visible.  

[Saito2 6686]

2 hours ago, Crazy L said:

What are those wheels and tyres off?  A Stampede?

The wheels are Jconcepts Midwest 2.2 wheels and the tires are Axial 2.2 SMT10 BKTs. 

[Ferruz 11702]

9 hours ago, Crazy L said:

P.S, your photos on your post aren't visible.  

Oh, weird, thank you for letting me know. I wonder if anybody else has the same issue visualizing my pictures? I'm able to see them ok.