TD4 motivation

[Busdriver]

Some of you will recall that I purchased and built a TD4 at first release. Although I like the look of it especially with the see through panels painted, I was underwhelmed by its performance. So I tried to sell it here on the forum but nobody really got close to my hopes or expectations. So I put it away for a while. Recently I got a couple of EBay sellers offers so I thought I would try again. I must admit my first attempt was quite bullish but not a squeak. So relisted stripped back with the lowest start price I was willing to go for and apart from one offer £30 lower still nothing. So I pulled it completely. I now think I must fall back in love with it and hence the title. It’s really a pun on my original lack of interest in it namely motive power. I fitted a Black Sport tuned motor but only ever ran it on NiMh’s. So my question is” Is the motor good enough if I were to use 2/3S lipos or would I be better to go brushless/lipo and be dammed 😈😈. Can someone recommend a shorty Lipo that will fit and or a brushless setup again that will fit

[bRIBEGuy]

Personally I'd go straight to brushless and LiPo.  It's a modern buggy, so run modern electronics... it will be a night and day difference in speed and performance.

Now as to what to actually stick in... I've got nothing to suggest, sadly.  My TD4 is still sitting in the box unbuilt and also awaiting me to make up my mind on zippy bits... I'll likely try a HobbyWing ESC and something in the 10.5-13.5t range...  

[alvinlwh]

As @bRIBEGuy said, go modern, go 10.5T. If that is too hot, dial it back on the ESC and/or EPA?

[BuggyGuy]

TD4 is underwhelming for me out of the box when I ran it with a Sports Tuned and the TBLE02 ESC.

However, it's really came alive with a 13.5 turn brushless setup - though it led to needing the slipper clutch to help prolong the diffs (if you're running ball diffs), but I subsequently swapped to the TA06 gear diffs from an XV01

I think the front CVDs make the steering much better as well (as you can remove the steering limiters with the CVDs installed).

Fitted the metal bevel gears today, as I'm going to try a 6.5T motor at its next race meeting:

[Busdriver]

37 minutes ago, BuggyGuy said:

TD4 is underwhelming for me out of the box when I ran it with a Sports Tuned and the TBLE02 ESC.

However, it's really came alive with a 13.5 turn brushless setup - though it led to needing the slipper clutch to help prolong the diffs (if you're running ball diffs), but I subsequently swapped to the TA06 gear diffs from an XV01

I think the front CVDs make the steering much better as well (as you can remove the steering limiters with the CVDs installed).

Fitted the metal bevel gears today, as I'm going to try a 6.5T motor at its next race meeting:

Thanks, I think 10.5t would be good. I’ve already got the slipper installed. Main issue is getting the wiring in . What motor have you used? I’ve also got front and rear CVD’s as well as metal diff nuts

[Nicadraus]

As much as I love brushed motors for nostalgic reasons, brushless is simply much, much better in terms of power, maintenance and adjustability. There are many not so expensive brushless systems to mid-high end one. Some I would recommend are the SkyRC Toro TS series (TS120/160) and the Hobbywing Xerun 120a  or the XR10

For the battery, I'm not too sure about the TD4's battery bay but you can try a slim battery like the one I used for my FF-01 and Wild One without any modifications.

[Aerobert]

Installation of a brushless motor is really a pain on this chassis. I've put in a Robitronic Razor brushless motor as I had it on place. To make it fit I had to cut down most of the plastic cable guide on the motor. This was necessary to make not only the motor fit but also the cables. Probably the only direct fit motor currently is one of the TBLM-02 motors as they have the cables coming through the end bell. If they wouldn't be so expensive (around 80-90€ in Germany). At least I'm not aware of others which have the same cable routing. Not sure how the motors with soldering lugs will fit.

[alvinlwh]

8 minutes ago, Aerobert said:

At least I'm not aware of others which have the same cable routing. 

Speed Passion (if you still can find them) have the same routing. 

[Busdriver]

Is there a brushed equivalent to a 13.5t brushless motor?

[Busdriver]

What I might do is use one of my 2s CoreRC lipos with the ST motor and see if that peps it up a bit. If I change the motor it’s a major strip down. Mind you I need to fit the metal diff nut to the front diff so probably on the cards anyway!

[El Gecko]

 

3 hours ago, Busdriver said:

I fitted a Black Sport tuned motor

 

16 minutes ago, Busdriver said:

Is there a brushed equivalent to a 13.5t brushless motor?

Super Stock TZ or BZ would be much faster and more powerful than the Sport Tuned you have, and round about a 17.5t brushless equivalent I reckon. According to a thread on here, even the newer silver can Sport Tuned is an upgrade over the black can.

[BuggyGuy]

2 hours ago, Busdriver said:

Thanks, I think 10.5t would be good. I’ve already got the slipper installed. Main issue is getting the wiring in . What motor have you used? I’ve also got front and rear CVD’s as well as metal diff nuts

I've used a 13.5T Speed Passion V3 - they're an older design but I found one NIB from 2014ish. They are easy to install in the TD4 as they have bullet connectors in the end of the can, rather than solder tabs on top. I've used a Muchmore Fleta ESC as they have a very small footprint which ideal for fitting on the plate behind the driver.

I think the SkyRC Ares motors might be a good fit, I have one on the way to try out.

I tried an Hobbywing Max10 ESC/Motor combo as well - but there's no chance of getting it to fit.

[alvinlwh]

1 hour ago, Busdriver said:

Is there a brushed equivalent to a 13.5t brushless motor?

Like for like, one of the Z's (minor difference between them) beats a 13.5T. They are closer to a 10.5T (13.5T closer to ST) which is why I suggested a 10.5T earlier. 

Change the bushing for bearings in the Z for even more speed. 

 

[alvinlwh]

1 hour ago, El Gecko said:

According to a thread on here, even the newer silver can Sport Tuned is an upgrade over the black can.

According to this test, the new ST is 5% faster than the old one. 

 

 

[Busdriver]

Wow those superstocks give good bang for your bucks!!!!

[Busdriver]

Thanks for all your motivation guys🙂 I really think I’ve got a plan to get the TD4 moving. Simple start will be ST with 2s lipo. I can do that now without buying anything. Then I definitely might try a superstock. I think ultimately brushless in this chassis is going to be overly difficult to source the right motor.

[alvinlwh]

19 minutes ago, Busdriver said:

Wow those superstocks give good bang for your bucks!!!!

Only if you buy from PJ (with regular airmail postage). Buying in the UK, you are better off with a bluebottle or Surpass brushless. 

[BuggyGuy]

2 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Only if you buy from PJ (with regular airmail postage). Buying in the UK, you are better off with a bluebottle or Surpass brushless. 

Super Stock RZ is £35 on Amazon UK at the moment (+ £4.62 delivery) and £32 with free delivery on the bay - which isn't too bad if you don't want to wait for PJs slow postage option.

I think the LRP V10 Spec6 or the Reedy Radon brushed motors are a pretty good option at the moment in the UK, lots of winds available and easy to get for about £25 delivered.

I put an ETronix sport modified brushed (15 turn) in a build for a friend recently - good little motor for £15!

[Busdriver]

19 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Only if you buy from PJ (with regular airmail postage). Buying in the UK, you are better off with a bluebottle or Surpass brushless. 

True but the issue is then with the cable routing. There is absolutely no room for side mounted tabs on a brushless motor with this chassis. So it’s either superstock brushed or Tamiya brushless. Unless you’re lucky enough to find a speed passion or similar with end bell fittings.

[Busdriver]

6 minutes ago, BuggyGuy said:

Super Stock RZ is £35 on Amazon UK at the moment (+ £4.62 delivery) and £32 with free delivery on the bay -

Can find £34 on the bay but not £32?

[BuggyGuy]

7 minutes ago, Busdriver said:

Can find £34 on the bay but not £32?

Same here now I look again - I either misread it or it sold in the last few mins (unlikely!) - apologies

This looks like a good deal though (TZ not RZ): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265868996643?hash=item3de706f023:g:b-oAAOSw7XtjFGzS&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoBBo9msT0JDmUNy3p8n43HhDz5knEbM21kilyPJVJvBbbrLg%2FlJnWY3aJCLe2us%2FvUSxad5zHQr6eqof4Ew9aRhXe1kl4oxUJAC98x0WpA%2B0wtBKZyb0SRYQt83o0A3Q8aHMy80OqD3%2BxdNNMI%2FEtXu8qqB3VjGylXaidu7NLLmeBoFqBUlrkkMn%2FzTMeVQJdLhirZRyBtp%2FUhEh1r5GLYA%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7Tohp3jYA

 

[alvinlwh]

13 minutes ago, BuggyGuy said:

if you don't want to wait for PJs slow postage option.

Slow postage option is not even an option ATM as JP has not resumed normal service to UK, EMS only. That is freaking expansive, I tried to check out a £28 basket and will cost £23. A TZ on PJ costs £16 and with regular airmail should come to about £24, but that is not an option now. 

I looked into the LRP before but Modelsport also charge me for postage (no free postage to me) annoyingly. 

[Busdriver]

Ordered an RZ @ £34 with free p&p 

[alvinlwh]

7 minutes ago, Busdriver said:

Ordered an RZ @ £34 with free p&p 

Enjoy! 

[Big Jon]

Mine has a Hobbywing Bandit 10.5 and a SkyRC Toro TS120. It’s pretty cramped, sure, but it all fit with no hacking, just careful wire routing. This chassis really seems to like good power, and has a pleasant, sprightly feeling.

Mine roached the rear bevel gear set quickly, so I’d say that the metal gears are a must. I built it with the slipper, alloy diff nuts, ceramic balls, CVDs, steering upgrades, sway bars, aluminum suspension mount, and Yeah big-bore shocks. It’s the high-performance non-racing 4WD buggy I’ve been wanting….

Except for the body.