Clodbuster Motor Upgrade Suggestions

[OliveJacksonRC 1]

Have an original clodbuster from 87, and would like to upgrade the motors from the stock ones to a 540.  Any suggestions?  Also what would be the pinon gear ratio that i would need?  18?

[TWINSET 1793]

Clod pinions are 32p (32DP) with 13 teeth

Because of the gearbox design, you can't easily fit a different sized pinion (you can just about get away with 12 teeth if you take the brass tubes [BM5] out)

If you want to change the gearing any more, you'll need a set of these; https://teamcpe.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=33_148&product_id=2040

These are always a good thing to fit too (B11 in manual) - the plastic versions break eventually; https://teamcpe.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=33_167&product_id=2277

 

 

[OliveJacksonRC 1]

Thanks!  Do you have a suggestion on a set of upgraded motors as well?

[TWINSET 1793]

8 minutes ago, OliveJacksonRC said:

Do you have a suggestion on a set of upgraded motors as well?

No, sorry - haven't messed about with Clods for years.

You'll either need a normal and reverse rotation set (if they're still made) or 2 identical motors with adjustable timing, then mirror/reverse the timing on the front/rear.

 

Have a read of this;

 

[bRIBEGuy 3049]

Are you keeping the MSC, or going to an ESC?  Brushed or Brushless?

[OliveJacksonRC 1]

I have an ESC in it already (or at least the previous owner did).  They are the original motor which I believe are brushed, so I would like to keep it in that family. 

[Saito2 6686]

Sadly, the old days of cool paired brushed motors (one normal rotation and one reverse rotation) like Trinity's Matched Madness and Speedworks Monster Mashes made specifically for twin motor trucks like the Clod Buster are gone. Your best bet is to find zero timed motors that can work in normal or reverse rotation. A mild upgrade from the stock silvercan 540 Tamiya motors would be something like RC4WDs 20T motors. There's a video on Youtube floating around showing some mild speed increases with these motors. I've read they will work with the stock twin motor ESC Tamiya puts in their newer Super Clod kits. HPI 15T Firebolts will provide a decent power increase along with an ESC capable of handling them. They're pretty cheap too. 

Jconcepts offers a 27T motor for these trucks though I don't know how much power increase there will be considering the stock motors are 27T already. IIRC , the Reedy Radon motors are also commonly use by Clod racers nowadays.

[markbt73 5316]

Any 15-20 turn "sport" motors should give it a good boost without going too crazy or worrying about timing/reverse rotation. Dynamite, RC4WD, Axial, and others sell them, and they're probably all the same.

Traxxas 550 series 12 turn Titan motors might be a good cheap option too, but you might need an ESC upgrade for them.

[GTodd 1350]

Super stock and reverse the polarity of one. Did that on mine get ready for wealies!

[Saito2 6686]

17 hours ago, markbt73 said:

Traxxas 550 series 12 turn Titan motors might be a good cheap option too,

I agree these potent motors are a good cheap option, but caution fitment issues. Sealed can 550 motors hit the stock Clod Buster ladder bars due to their longer length. A bit of "clearanceing"/grinding on the ladder bar with a Dremel allows them to fit.

8 hours ago, GTodd said:

Super stock and reverse the polarity of one.

Are Tamiya Super Stocks zero timed motors or can they be set to zero? Honestly never tried them in a Clod.

 

Sorry for being pedantic.

[GTodd 1350]

For the super stocks they are timed from the factory, buuuuut pop the end bells off (add bearing while you are at it) and grind off the timing tab and you now have modified motors for cheap that you can reverse time.

[bRIBEGuy 3049]

On 9/30/2022 at 4:39 PM, Saito2 said:

Jconcepts offers a 27T motor for these trucks though I don't know how much power increase there will be considering the stock motors are 27T already. IIRC , the Reedy Radon motors are also commonly use by Clod racers nowadays.

The JConcepts ones are supposed to be a pretty big upgrade.  I've been curious to try a set as the brushless 5600kv setup in my race Clod is a bit.... ridiculously overkill!

[kasparov 71]

On 10/3/2022 at 7:46 PM, Saito2 said:

I agree these potent motors are a good cheap option, but caution fitment issues. Sealed can 550 motors hit the stock Clod Buster ladder bars due to their longer length. A bit of "clearanceing"/grinding on the ladder bar with a Dremel allows them to fit.

Are Tamiya Super Stocks zero timed motors or can they be set to zero? Honestly never tried them in a Clod.

 

Sorry for being pedantic.

I run Super Stocks in mine, they run really well, good strong motor for the Clod, logical upgrade to stock....I also ran the Super Modified 11T for a few runs too, went like a rocket

[OliveJacksonRC 1]

So I ordered these on a suggestion: CPE-MOT4 (teamcpe.com) -> There are no instructions on how to use them.  Any ideas on installation? 

I purchased RS-540 motors with the suggestions pinion size above -> 32p (32DP) with 13 teeth

I ensured the proper spacing on the pinon and when I soft fit it, the pinon lines up with the main gear in the gearbox, without needing the custom mounts (as I am not sure how to install them). 

However, the sound the gearbox is making with the new 540 sounds like grinding.  When I put the stock motor in, it sounds smoother. 

Not sure what I am doing wrong. 

[bRIBEGuy 3049]

Those CPE motor mounts are not needed when using a 13t pinion (which is the stock size), only if you want to run smaller (9-12t) or larger (14-17t).

The long screws go thru the slotted holes, with the heads recessed in the slots.

The short screws will go in the opposite direction, and get threaded into the motor.

The assembly (as shown on CPE's website that you linked too) then slides into place with the screws going thru the gearcases in the same fashion, but opposite direction, as the manual shows (see the post by @TWINSET above).

You then adjust the mesh, hold in place, add the gearcase cover and nuts, and tighten up without having anything move.  Easy?  No.  Having an aftermarket clear gearcase cover helps ALOT, as otherwise you're adjusting mesh by "feel".

[OliveJacksonRC 1]

Thank you for the response.  I ensured that when I did a placeholder install, just holding it manually where the screws where, that the pinion placement was spot on.  Thinking the "grinding noise" is due to an offset adjustment that I cannot see after screwing it in. 

Do you have a link for an aftermarket / clear gearcase cover?  

[bRIBEGuy 3049]

Google says......... BOOM!

[OliveJacksonRC 1]

Thanks, so I am taking it the "grinding" sound is the pinion not sitting correctly on the main gear?  I validated the rotation of the new Tamiya 540 sport motors is in the same direction as the stock motors.  guess I should wait for the clear covers to come into to make sure. 

[bRIBEGuy 3049]

3 hours ago, OliveJacksonRC said:

Thanks, so I am taking it the "grinding" sound is the pinion not sitting correctly on the main gear? 

Most likely, yes.  Too tight or too loose can make noise.

If you're sticking with the stock pinion, I would just skip the CPE motor mounts for now, and set them aside until you decide to playa round with gearing/motors.  They're more trouble then they're worth (IMO) if you're not looking to run an alternate pinion.

[TWINSET 1793]

On 10/6/2022 at 3:41 AM, OliveJacksonRC said:

So I ordered these on a suggestion: CPE-MOT4 (teamcpe.com) -> There are no instructions on how to use them.  Any ideas on installation? 

 

Pics from Thundertech (the ones CPE copied )
https://www.thundertechracing.com/motormnt.htm

This side goes to motor - The bolt heads sit in the recess, and the sides of the slots stop the bolts rotating

 

Use the original brass tubes when assembling - they stop you overtightening the nuts which could distort the gearbox/axle casing and screw with the mesh

     

 

13 hours ago, bRIBEGuy said:

If you're sticking with the stock pinion, I would just skip the CPE motor mounts for now, and set them aside until you decide to playa round with gearing/motors.  They're more trouble then they're worth (IMO) if you're not looking to run an alternate pinion.

They add about 5mm to the motor length too, so your motors might foul on the suspension arms.  If you are sticking with 13 t pinions there is no need for the motor mounts

[Big Jon 684]

A couple of years ago, I put a pair of Super Stock RZ motors with a Hobbywing 880 (reversed timing on one, and they sounded the same on the ear dyno) on a customer’s old Clod. I mildly hopped it up - he had a little list of stuff he’d wanted to do for as long as he’s had it - with bearings, good shocks, working steering, basically the way it should come. Really came out nice. With steel 13t pinions, it was right at the chassis limits without being too hard to drive, did killer wheelies all over the parking lot; we were all really pleased with it.

Now, if Tamiya would make a real Super Clodbuster, exactly the same but with modern plastics throughout, dual servo steering options, bearings, proper CVAs, HEX SCREWS - a modern kit, at a modern kit price, with some all-new hop ups released in reasonable quantity to compliment - I’ll finally buy a Clod for myself. They are just so fragile that you really must be careful driving them.

Sorry to run off topic; the Clod has been love/hate for me since it’s release. 

[GTodd 1350]

58 minutes ago, Big Jon said:

A couple of years ago, I put a pair of Super Stock RZ motors with a Hobbywing 880 (reversed timing on one, and they sounded the same on the ear dyno) on a customer’s old Clod. I mildly hopped it up - he had a little list of stuff he’d wanted to do for as long as he’s had it - with bearings, good shocks, working steering, basically the way it should come. Really came out nice. With steel 13t pinions, it was right at the chassis limits without being too hard to drive, did killer wheelies all over the parking lot; we were all really pleased with it.

Now, if Tamiya would make a real Super Clodbuster, exactly the same but with modern plastics throughout, dual servo steering options, bearings, proper CVAs, HEX SCREWS - a modern kit, at a modern kit price, with some all-new hop ups released in reasonable quantity to compliment - I’ll finally buy a Clod for myself. They are just so fragile that you really must be careful driving them.

Sorry to run off topic; the Clod has been love/hate for me since it’s release. 

Nice post, but these are far from fragile. This is my sons favorite rc truck to play with in the back yard.   He nails it in reverse and than forward to start wealies, has crashed into EVERYTHING hard in the backyard and it has to break.  Only mods are ball bearings and hicaps, fair call outs for Bearings and pogo sticks. But these things are built like TANKS!  Do the servo saver mod and buy a really strong servo and it’ll do what it is meant to do.  Drive hard, and have fun. 

[smirk-racing 253]

On 10/6/2022 at 5:09 PM, bRIBEGuy said:

Those CPE motor mounts are not needed when using a 13t pinion (which is the stock size), only if you want to run smaller (9-12t) or larger (14-17t).

The long screws go thru the slotted holes, with the heads recessed in the slots.

The short screws will go in the opposite direction, and get threaded into the motor.

The assembly (as shown on CPE's website that you linked too) then slides into place with the screws going thru the gearcases in the same fashion, but opposite direction, as the manual shows (see the post by @TWINSET above).

You then adjust the mesh, hold in place, add the gearcase cover and nuts, and tighten up without having anything move.  Easy?  No.  Having an aftermarket clear gearcase cover helps ALOT, as otherwise you're adjusting mesh by "feel".

I bought these years ago and abandoned them after many months of frustration.
 

For me it was far better to just just leave the pinion fixed at 13t and adjust other parameters (between batteries, motors and esc settings, there is quite a bit of adjustability available). 
 

I also got the clear gearbox covers so I could see the mesh and even then it was painful to set the mesh. 
 

I would explore whether you can accomplish your goals with a stock 13t pinion. I ended up using 3s with a particular set of motors (don’t remember which) and the truck was great for what I wanted. 

[smirk-racing 253]

8 hours ago, GTodd said:

Nice post, but these are far from fragile. This is my sons favorite rc truck to play with in the back yard.   He nails it in reverse and than forward to start wealies, has crashed into EVERYTHING hard in the backyard and it has to break.  Only mods are ball bearings and hicaps, fair call outs for Bearings and pogo sticks. But these things are built like TANKS!  Do the servo saver mod and buy a really strong servo and it’ll do what it is meant to do.  Drive hard, and have fun. 

@GTodd are you running stock silvercans or something else?

 

[Big Jon 684]

9 hours ago, GTodd said:

Nice post, but these are far from fragile. This is my sons favorite rc truck to play with in the back yard.   He nails it in reverse and than forward to start wealies, has crashed into EVERYTHING hard in the backyard and it has to break.  Only mods are ball bearings and hicaps, fair call outs for Bearings and pogo sticks. But these things are built like TANKS!  Do the servo saver mod and buy a really strong servo and it’ll do what it is meant to do.  Drive hard, and have fun. 

Fragility is subjective, I guess. They’re adequate enough with silvercans and  NiMh.