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m-chassis motor

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What is your favorite motor on an m-chassis? 21.5 17.5 or 13.5?

Some m-chassis have a torque-tuned motor, so is the 17.5 a good target for similar performance?

For Tamiyausa in their rules it is allowed to use torque-tuned or 21.5 (16000rpm vs 12000)

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From Tamiya, my M03 is my favorite and run 21.5.   I run 17.5 on my Sabre Mini's.  

But depending on traction and how coarse the driving surface is, sometimes I just run silver can and use the Tamiya's taller sidewall tires.  

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I’m currently building an M07- Concept and am at the point of choosing the motor. I currently have 3 options available, all brushed on 2S lipo or NiMh . I have a stock silvercan ( in fact I have about 10 of them) a Black Sport tuned 27t or a Silver Sport tuned(allegedly 23t). Not sure which to go for? The other option is to raid one of my other cars of a Torque tuned and put one of the others in it to replace it? Torque tuned seem to be the most favoured brushed motors for the M chassis cars?

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I prefer brushless power in mine. 13.5t works well on my experience, as the limited gearing options make it hard to get a low enough rollout for anything higher IMO.

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1 hour ago, TurnipJF said:

I prefer brushless power in mine. 13.5t works well on my experience, as the limited gearing options make it hard to get a low enough rollout for anything higher IMO.

What pinion would you run with a 13.5t brushless?

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I ran a Castle Sidewinder and 4600kV combo in my M-03 for a while, put it in something else and never put something else back in. Been wondering what would work with the Tamiya brushed/sensored BL ESC that came with the Jimny for it or thought about another Sidewinder/3800kV combo like I have in my Long Arm Bandit project since that should run cooler than the 4600 did, especially if I want to do 3s again:lol:

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1 hour ago, BJoe76 said:

I ran a Castle Sidewinder and 4600kV combo in my M-03 for a while, put it in something else and never put something else back in. Been wondering what would work with the Tamiya brushed/sensored BL ESC that came with the Jimny for it or thought about another Sidewinder/3800kV combo like I have in my Long Arm Bandit project since that should run cooler than the 4600 did, especially if I want to do 3s again:lol:

Once you try castle motors, you'll never find a good enough replacement?. Or your M03 suffered so much with the last Castle motor that it's unrepairable??

If it ain't broke, keep trying. Lol

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On 10/2/2022 at 1:03 AM, Willy iine said:

From Tamiya, my M03 is my favorite and run 21.5.   I run 17.5 on my Sabre Mini's.  

But depending on traction and how coarse the driving surface is, sometimes I just run silver can and use the Tamiya's taller sidewall tires.  

So you are on the "slow side". More power less fun?

5 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

I prefer brushless power in mine. 13.5t works well on my experience, as the limited gearing options make it hard to get a low enough rollout for anything higher IMO.

Carpet or outdoor? 13.5 is it only suitable for an experienced driver?

3 hours ago, BJoe76 said:

I ran a Castle Sidewinder and 4600kV combo in my M-03 for a while, put it in something else and never put something else back in. Been wondering what would work with the Tamiya brushed/sensored BL ESC that came with the Jimny for it or thought about another Sidewinder/3800kV combo like I have in my Long Arm Bandit project since that should run cooler than the 4600 did, especially if I want to do 3s again:lol:

LOL you are off the scale.

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7 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

I prefer brushless power in mine. 13.5t works well on my experience, as the limited gearing options make it hard to get a low enough rollout for anything higher IMO.

Which tires are you running @TurnipJF the low profile ones or the 60D ones? Thanks!

I converted my rally car to brushless and now I want the M-05 to go brushless as well 🙄

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10 hours ago, Busdriver said:

What pinion would you run with a 13.5t brushless?

The biggest the chassis can take. Typically even the tallest gearing option is a little on the short side for brushless, especially mild brushless motors with plenty of torque but relatively low RPM compared to their brushed counterparts.

 

5 hours ago, vodka said:

Carpet or outdoor? 13.5 is it only suitable for an experienced driver?

Both - I just change my tyres to suit. I wouldn't say you need a great deal of experience to handle a 13.5t M-chassis. As long as you have progressed beyond the all-or-nothing stage of throttle management and don't feel the need to use all the power all the time just because it is there, you'll be fine. 

 

3 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

Which tires are you running @TurnipJF the low profile ones or the 60D ones? Thanks!

It varies according to track surface and layout. On tight indoor carpet tracks (and sometimes tight outdoor ones such as as those used for postal racing) I usually use smaller 55D low-profile tyres, foam or rubber depending on the surface, venue rules, etc. Outdoors on tarmac where track layouts are typically larger, corners are less tight and higher speeds are possible, I use rubber 60Ds.

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5 hours ago, vodka said:

So you are on the "slow side". More power less fun?

 

For me, I like to drive these cars on reasonable amount of power.  If you need more power, that's your choice, but you asked what my favorite motors were, so there you go.

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1 hour ago, Willy iine said:

For me, I like to drive these cars on reasonable amount of power.  If you need more power, that's your choice, but you asked what my favorite motors were, so there you go.

I'm with you on this, a 21.5T brushless can be really fast, plenty fast enough to break the car.  Obviously gearing is key here.  I look at the number of dnf club racing in mod classes compared to the spec classes and slower IS more fun, as you finish the race and don't spend a fortune on parts!

I think that @TurnipJF is on the right track here, 13.5T seems to be the sweet spot in most Tamiya's

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13.5t bluebottle in the motor store so I think I’ll go with that. Have to look through my pinions and see what I’ve got, but the consensus seems to be as big as it’ll go!!!

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4 hours ago, Willy iine said:

For me, I like to drive these cars on reasonable amount of power.  If you need more power, that's your choice, but you asked what my favorite motors were, so there you go.

Oh, yes... it was not a criticism, I just wanted to know your thoughts better. For me "slow" is not "bad".

3 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

I'm with you on this, a 21.5T brushless can be really fast, plenty fast enough to break the car.  Obviously gearing is key here.  I look at the number of dnf club racing in mod classes compared to the spec classes and slower IS more fun, as you finish the race and don't spend a fortune on parts!

A good upgrade the box motor. They are comparable for your experience?

5 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

I wouldn't say you need a great deal of experience to handle a 13.5t M-chassis. As long as you have progressed beyond the all-or-nothing stage of throttle management and don't feel the need to use all the power all the time just because it is there, you'll be fine. 

Perfect. The question now is: if you want to have a money-friendly club race, is 21.5 the best choice? A driver can race with the stock motor and if all the other drivers go up to 21.5 he is still competitive and is not obliged to make the leap to brushless. Can it be a valid thought?.

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@vodka I suppose if you’re just talking Tamiya m-chassis, then that can be fair(?) but the gearing I can achieve on my Sabre’s with BL are pretty much ballistic even with a 21.5 .. I mean it’s not even close.  I think that can also be said about my XM1-C which I have not built yet..(?)

My 4WD m-chassis are not slow at all..  I am, however.  :lol: 

Personally, I would keep mini's open class.   Use whatever motor one wants with 2 classes... advanced and novice..and maybe a concourse low speed advanced driver-only class just for show.  Those are always fun.  GL with your planning!  B)

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Personally I think brushed motors are perfect for the M-chassis.

As others have mentioned, they have higher RPM for the same power output which makes them easier to gear. They also fit better (especially in an M-07). And you don't need big power in an M-chassis because there is so much wheelspin, and they can't carry the same speed as a larger car through the corners. Very driveable as well - much more driveable than a sensorless system, and a match for any sensored system.

The old HPI Saturn 20 was a super upgrade over a standard Tamiya silvercan, I wouldn't want to go any faster than that. We're running the Core 21T at the moment for racing.

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2 hours ago, Willy iine said:

@vodka I suppose if you’re just talking Tamiya m-chassis, then that can be fair(?) but the gearing I can achieve on my Sabre’s with BL are pretty much ballistic even with a 21.5 .. I mean it’s not even close.  I think that can also be said about my XM1-C which I have not built yet..(?)

My 4WD m-chassis are not slow at all..  I am, however.  :lol: 

Personally, I would keep mini's open class.   Use whatever motor one wants with 2 classes... advanced and novice..and maybe a concourse low speed advanced driver-only class just for show.  Those are always fun.  GL with your planning!  B)

The club is small and these are hard times, so my idea is to have two classes, novice and advanced both with a look to the budget: novice class with stock car and torque-tuned motor and no upgrades (only bearings and so on), so the budget to start is very low, and advanced class with all the upgrades allowed and torque-tuned or 21.5t motor, so a beginner can switch to advanced class hassle-free.

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1 hour ago, vodka said:

The club is small and these are hard times, so my idea is to have two classes, novice and advanced both with a look to the budget: novice class with stock car and torque-tuned motor and no upgrades (only bearings and so on), so the budget to start is very low, and advanced class with all the upgrades allowed and torque-tuned or 21.5t motor, so a beginner can switch to advanced class hassle-free.

I see.. I suggest you just run silver can in this case (up to Sport Tuned).    

Silver can is sufficiently fast for a small track and makes it more about maintaining a clean line for the advanced drivers.  Chances are your 21.5 BL drivers will not be able to hold W.O.T. for more than a split second (unless high traction which I don't think is the case due to low budget you mentioned) and just spin it's wheels due to 2WD which is not very fun.. (?) 

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On 10/2/2022 at 4:39 PM, wolfdogstinkus said:

Once you try castle motors, you'll never find a good enough replacement?. Or your M03 suffered so much with the last Castle motor that it's unrepairable??

If it ain't broke, keep trying. Lol

I pulled the SW/4600 combo to put in a 1/16 Traxxas Rally that I have since misplaced and never got around to repowering the M-03, plus I was going to freshen it up, but have yet to do that too. It was a blast with that combo, but the SW-SCT/3800 combo like I have on my Bandit would make more sense and run cooler.

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On 10/2/2022 at 6:40 PM, vodka said:

LOL you are off the scale.

I was just in my go fast with odd things stage, had a good time with it and destroyed multiple gearsets and well as Grenaded a few belted tires. I did finally chill on that and just ran a hood 2s and added added M-05 uprights and knuckles to it which surprised me with how well that worked out. I still have unusual tastes for things, as evidenced by my Wild Willy 4x4, MF-01x Jimny with TR portals, Traxxas Telluride trail rig, long armed basher Bandit, stadium truck style Stampede, and now the Drag Slash that is getting an Axial XJ Cherokee body and more of a Gasser stance.

On 10/2/2022 at 6:40 PM, vodka said:
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On 10/2/2022 at 11:08 AM, TurnipJF said:

I prefer brushless power in mine. 13.5t works well on my experience, as the limited gearing options make it hard to get a low enough rollout for anything higher IMO.

Never tried any Brushless in any of my Tamiya Cars..... mainly for lack of Money. 😭 But I constantly hear that 13.5t is the sweet spot for most cars. AND that the TBLE-02 handles them well. Despite Tamiya's warnings!! 

My own experience in my M03 and M05s, 13t to 19t Brushed gives great performance. Just got to be careful exiting turns. 

The awesome thing about FWD M-Chassis Cars is - they're MORE forgiving than nearly anything else!! 😀👌 Yeah there's some understeer... but the right Throttle manipulation will kick the rear out. And you can almost always PULL yourself out of a jam! 

One of my TOP regrets is NOT having any M07s available, in the short window last year, when I actually HAD Money. 😢  And that I didn't HOLD that money until they were back in stock. 

Although I haven't found ANY available in the past year and a half! In the Colonies anyway...

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