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burakol

Using Re-re parts on an OG RC

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So I was fortunate to acquire an OG Super Sabre for almost a cost of a dime. As expected for a 35 y/o car, there are parts that needs to be changed/fixed. Luckily, there are parts available for it since it shares many things similar from the Boomerang/Bigwig/Hotshot chassis, so I was able to easily source parts that I needed; F/R suspension arms, wheels,  bumper, uprights, and even a new chassis... I am currently trying my hardest to save the original body/shell, but stripping the paint off has become very tricky... the prior owner painted both the inside and outside of polycarb and it looks like the shell has fogged up during my process of stripping the paint off, and I'm not even halfway done with it... I know TBG and MCI produces repro shell and stickers and I am heavily considering just buying a new shell... 

When I got myself an MK2 Hotshot, I was able to restore most of the original parts, even the body and stickers... Now the question is, do you feel that using re-re parts (or even repro), take away some certain aspect/value of being an original release series of the car?  

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MOST rere parts are identical, there are exceptions, the Hotshots are near identical minus the drive shafts.

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10 hours ago, burakol said:

Now the question is, do you feel that using re-re parts (or even repro), take away some certain aspect/value of being an original release series of the car?  

I won't tell if you won't..?  :ph34r:

 

:lol: JK, enjoy your car how you feel fit.  Restored cars can use all available parts including home made, in my rule book.  Only 100% original is original.  

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100% Original original ain’t much good if them plastics are aged beyond serviceability. :( 
 

Last night I bolted on fresh front arms onto my was-100%-OG SuperSabre... genuine OG arms had simply fractured into pieces just by sitting on its own weight, never even run after resto yrs ago. 

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As long as it is running again I don't think it matters.

Some people do the shelf queen thing where it all has to be prefect and the parts original. I don't have the money or the patience to do that.
But each to their own really.

Me I kind of resto mod my vintage RC cars.

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Its all about degrees of originality and how far someone is willing to take that. At the top of that scale is the 100% original, accept no substitutes, restoration oriented individual. I'm not one of them, but I can respect the effort that they put into the restorations they have. For these folk alone, re-re parts are an absolute nightmare, capable of undermining all their efforts. Many re-re parts are indistinguishable from the originals. While tackling a restoration project, these folk can ensure any parts they buy for the restoration are original vintage pieces. However, by this stage of the game, with re-res being out for so long, there may be no telling if some of the parts on the project car in question are all original to begin with.

I understand to many of us, this is inconsequential, especially if the parts look and feel exactly the same. Its just, to these 100% restoration folks, it isn't the same. While it might mean nothing to us, re-re parts infiltration is a huge roadblock in what they are trying to achieve. My wife and I are finally getting close to the end of our year-long Lego Titanic build. There are Lego bricks deep in the bowels of that ship that no one will ever see. If they are left out or installed improperly, who would care or know? Well, my wife and I would know and knowing its done exactly right is part of the satisfaction when completed. Personally, I'm happy to have parts for old biggies again but can fully see the challenges it presents to others 

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I sometimes feel slightly bad for having put rere dogbone driveshafts in my original vintage Fox (which I've had from new) when I got it working again a few years back. But then, at the same time, when it ate through its driveshafts back in the day I used to with Tamiya had used dogbones like in the new cars (Hotshot etc) which might have lasted. I even considered tying to convert it back in the day as the hex ones were really expensive parts! So I kind of felt mine was a vintage mod, it's just that it took Tamiya a few decades to start making the parts I needed/wanted!

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3 hours ago, AJB123 said:

when it ate through its driveshafts back in the day

tbh them hexbones lasted a fair while BiTD  if kept clear of debris & properly lubed with T moly grease :) 

T tried making dogbones with white plastic ball ends once upon a time (circa TL01 debut era)... jeez they were a horrid idea!!! 

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20 hours ago, WillyChang said:

tbh them hexbones lasted a fair while BiTD  if kept clear of debris & properly lubed with T moly grease :) 

T tried making dogbones with white plastic ball ends once upon a time (circa TL01 debut era)... jeez they were a horrid idea!!! 

To be fair it did get a lot of use! I absolutely kept them clean and well greased with plenty of moly grease. I did find out when researching whether I could fit the rere dogbone out drives to the original gearbox that the later original ones had a modified rear arm and/or gearbox casing (I forget exactly which) to reduce droop. Mine is an early one, so didn't have that. I suspect that extra droop didn't help the driveshafts last. They felt notchy on full droop even before I ever ran it having built it up.

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Most of my vintage cars don't have this problem: they're either cars that won't ever be re-released (Striker/FX10, RC10L, Kyosho Progress) or cars I restored long before their re-releases came along (Blackfoot, Optima). The exception is the Boomerang, which is about 50% re-release plastics by now, but with the original gears, shocks, chassis tub, wheels/tires, and body/wing. I'm not too concerned with originality on it, because it's a Boomerang - they made tons of them. It's the RC equivalent of a Honda Accord. I'm sure hardcore collectors have 100% original ones and NIB examples, and that's cool for them, but I'm not going to bother tracking down original parts for something like that.

On the other hand, when I restored the Progress, I kept it as original as possible. I restored existing parts wherever I could, and only had to replace the chain (with a leftover vintage Optima chain), the rear drive hubs (with NIP vintage Kyosho originals that cost way too much), and some hardware (replaced with correct black Kyosho hardware). It even still has the "spot-welder special" MSC, which does not work (the first time I tried to test-drive the car, the speed control arced and started smoking; it has not been connected to a battery since) and period-correct Futaba radio gear.

Here's a question for the sticklers for originality: how do vehicles like the Clod Buster (which has been in constant production since it was introduced) figure into that? You can't call a new Super Clod a re-release; it's a continuation. Are new Clod parts acceptable on an original restoration? They would be to me, but I'm curious what others think.

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I have an OG Grasshopper with a re-release chassis and wheels and tires, having fresher plastic/rubber is more important to me since I like to take it out for a spin here and there.

I consider re-re/repro parts to be very useful, since without them it'd be a real challenge to restore older Tamiyas (I'm looking at you Falcon).

Shelf-queen stuff doesn't appeal to me, thats what models are for, and I don't have to worry about a models tires developing flat spots.

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On 10/9/2022 at 8:18 AM, markbt73 said:

Here's a question for the sticklers for originality: how do vehicles like the Clod Buster (which has been in constant production since it was introduced) figure into that? You can't call a new Super Clod a re-release; it's a continuation. Are new Clod parts acceptable on an original restoration? They would be to me, but I'm curious what others think.

I think this depends heavily on the individual.

While many of the parts on the Super Clod seem identical, often there are still some slight differences.  Molding stamps on the body, chassis, etc, have changed over time, and to SOME people, that is a big deal.

The Midnight Pumpkin is similar as well... it seems like a continuation, but if you go thru it part by part by part, there are differences in stamps (chassis, windows, body, etc...) and in materials.  

Now, does any of this matter for for 95% of us?  Probably not.  But those subtleties ARE there for those who care to look.  

For me, I generally have an outlook like this:

1. Is it getting run/used?  If the answer is yes, then re-re parts are 100% okay.  They are likely stronger, definitely cheaper, and don't do anything to diminish the driving experience (to me).  When I drive my daughters restored Midnight Pumpkin, I can't tell that the window has a different molding stamp than my 100% OG.

2. Is the rere part different?  Many of the tires, wheels, etc are exactly the same.  Here I don't see any logic to holding on to dried cracked rubber and chipped and yellowed wheels when the rere stuff is coming out of the same mold.  If the part is visually identical, then I see zero issue.

3. Do YOU care?  For some shelf queens, I do want 100% originality... but it's laced in hypocrisy as I'm not consistent with it.  I want my HotShot to be 100% OG, but I don't care if my Frog or Lunchbox have a couple ReRe parts to keep them looking top notch.

The one that I find odd, is how many people seem to STRESS over 100% originality on the parts of a restoration, but are then completely fine with MCI stickers.... :rolleyes:

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On 10/7/2022 at 10:16 AM, burakol said:

So I was fortunate to acquire an OG Super Sabre for almost a cost of a dime. As expected for a 35 y/o car, there are parts that needs to be changed/fixed. Luckily, there are parts available for it since it shares many things similar from the Boomerang/Bigwig/Hotshot chassis, so I was able to easily source parts that I needed; F/R suspension arms, wheels,  bumper, uprights, and even a new chassis... I am currently trying my hardest to save the original body/shell, but stripping the paint off has become very tricky... the prior owner painted both the inside and outside of polycarb and it looks like the shell has fogged up during my process of stripping the paint off, and I'm not even halfway done with it... I know TBG and MCI produces repro shell and stickers and I am heavily considering just buying a new shell... 

When I got myself an MK2 Hotshot, I was able to restore most of the original parts, even the body and stickers... Now the question is, do you feel that using re-re parts (or even repro), take away some certain aspect/value of being an original release series of the car?  

Not at all.  

I can't deal with the Tamiya Snobs who love using the term "re-re."     It's a hobby, don't take it seriously.   Have fun.   Who cares if your kit is NIB NOS, "RE-RE" etc.   If you enjoy it, and like it, who cares.

I really can't deal with the snobs or the hoarders. They make the hobby less fun.   Just do you and enjoy it.

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Well, parts finally arrived to rebuild the Super Sabre. I also ordered a spare chassis just to be safe… and i noticed that Tamiya actually stamped the chassis shell with the year 1986 and 2008 which leads be to believe that they changed their mold when they rereleased the Boomerang in 2008. Also, the Made in Japan logo was missing on the rere part I got. Not a big deal since I am not a hard core, nit-picky collector… heck, im not really even a collector… i just enjoy finding good deals to tinker with and enjoy… 

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1 hour ago, burakol said:

 Also, the Made in Japan logo was missing on the rere part I got. Not a big deal since I am not a hard core, nit-picky collector… heck, im not really even a collector… i just enjoy finding good deals to tinker with and enjoy… 

The rere parts might be outsourced, doesn't really make a difference in my experience though.

Good deals and tinkering sounds more fun than letting neat RCs collect dust!

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1 hour ago, burakol said:

changed their mold when they rereleased the Boomerang in 2008

yep & bumper part gained a slot hole :( 

Production of plastic tub kits mostly done in Philippines now afaik - just peek side of kit box where barcode is. 

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13 hours ago, burakol said:

… and i noticed that Tamiya actually stamped the chassis shell with the year 1986 and 2008 which leads be to believe that they changed their mold when they rereleased the Boomerang in 2008. Also, the Made in Japan logo was missing on the rere part I got. 

Yup, these are the types of changes you see on most of the rere stuff.  Not a big deal for a runner, or even for most shelf queens, but it is a pretty easy way to determine whether a car is fully OG or a mix of old/new parts.  The "Made In Japan" logo was removed when most production was moved overseas as mentioned by @WillyChang.  Many of the molds received additional logos for dates, materials, etc.  While some molds received some actual physical changes (ORV chassis for example), most seem essentially identical dimensionally.

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1 hour ago, bRIBEGuy said:

Yup, these are the types of changes you see on most of the rere stuff.  Not a big deal for a runner, or even for most shelf queens.

Thing is, a casual passer by (friend, relative) won't notice the differences between which parts are which. They'll just enjoy the more silly whimsical nature of Tamiyas old designs. So even as a shelf queen, I think re-releases work fine.

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35 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

Thing is, a casual passer by (friend, relative) won't notice the differences between which parts are which. They'll just enjoy the more silly whimsical nature of Tamiyas old designs. So even as a shelf queen, I think re-releases work fine.

Yup, 100% agreed.

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2 hours ago, bRIBEGuy said:

While some molds received some actual physical changes (ORV chassis for example)

Which part? I don't have a rere ORV but I'm curious about the differences?

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21 minutes ago, El Gecko said:

Which part? I don't have a rere ORV but I'm curious about the differences?

The "posts" that the "A1" battery caps mount too are longer, and the tabs that the "Z6" driver torso get taped to on the chassis are longer as well.  Internally, the chassis received a bunch of different stamps as well.

I just did a full rebuild of an OG Frog (Thread is HERE), and my initial intension was to use a lot of rere parts.  I was quite surprised to find that most of the parts (chassis, trailing arms, gearcase, bumper, etc) actually have some molding differences.

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If it were me I would replace every moving/functioning part I could with "re-re" spares.  Nothing worse than old Tamiya plastic and unless its a display-only piece no sense in messing with old parts.  

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Is this another ship of Theseus thought experiment? :D I've used re-re parts on almost all of my restorations, especially with ABS plastic bits that get brittle over time. Even a shelf queen will crack if the ABS parts are 30 years old.

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17 hours ago, RichieRich said:

Is this another ship of Theseus thought experiment?

I mean... it is essentially the "same" car... it should function the same way as the original... I guess the only thing one needs to determine if it is still considered an original series that carries a nostalgic value compared to a rere car, or rebuilt car with rere parts...??? 

will the re-sell value of the car diminish once rere parts are used compared to selling it as a full OG car with broken parts? 

Not that I plan of selling, but something that I also keep in mind in case the time comes I need to find source of cash flow...  

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