A sloooow XV-01 build

[BuggyDad 4474]

 

 

Escort shell came out OK, nothing flash but a good runner. PS-34 bright red backed with PS-63 bright gunmetal (because I had half a can) then black. There's a certain 70s feel about the colour I think. It reminds me of tomato soup. It's not what I expected but I really like it. I should maybe cut out the wheel arches more and lower it a notch. As it is it would take more travel so there may be room for the long damper kit, but the flip side is I'm tempted to increase chassis ride height first/as well. 

Kamtec front grille sticker was not really flexible enough to go round the contours of the headlights but with water and a hairdryer I got something reasonable in the end. Didn't really fancy the other stickers that came with the shell. I think "less is more" here although maybe some of those panel gap lines would be good. 

The bumper weirdness is a necessary evil and the bumper will stay whole until I choose to cut it for whichever shell accommodates more of it. 

I think the gold mini-a-like wheels I bought for this shell will go nicely with some rally tyres. They could even be a sort of semi period correct Porsche option. Maybe even with some higher profile tyres? And they're £3.20 a set. £3.20! I'm going shopping.

Cheap Chinese 300mm sensor cables arrived. Lucky they come in threes - quality is terrible. But it's nice to experiement for perfect length - I think for a neat cable run 350mm would be better .

[BuggyDad 4474]

I found this pic on the Web, after painting... 

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/amp/you-can-now-buy-a-brand-new-mk1-ford-escort-for-85k/

That also makes me think maybe I won't cut the rear arches away further. 

[Tamiyastef 1967]

@BuggyDad it's looking good as it is with the gold wheels IMO. Only the bumper weirdness as you call it, I can't really think of a solution for that 

[BuggyDad 4474]

26 minutes ago, Tamiyastef said:

@BuggyDad it's looking good as it is with the gold wheels IMO. Only the bumper weirdness as you call it, I can't really think of a solution for that 

Yeah with the layout as it is (motor) there's no getting away from the need for a bumper out there and this shell just doesn't go there! I'm cool with it - it's a runner. When I do the Lancia I will cut the bumper and hopefully find there's enough left to be useful (not sure). Have the same hope with the Porsche (got another bumper foam coming). 

I can see myself lowering the body at the same time as I raise the ride height, so body stays same height off the floor at rest. This would see further cutting on the front of the shell but probably nowhere else.

[Andreas W 1555]

The car looks superb. Espesially with the gold wheels in Minilite-design. Reminds me of the legendary MK1 of Holm Jacob Matheson here in Norway.

 

You probably already know,  but JC Racing Products has rims in that design in different colours and 2 offsets.

[BuggyDad 4474]

2 hours ago, Andreas W said:

You probably already know,  but JC Racing Products has rims in that design in different colours and 2 offsets.

Yes. These are those. Both a fitting design and a low price. I stuck an order in last night for more, and some Optima Mid ones too so I've got some running wheels for that, when I get round to building it. 

[BuggyDad 4474]

Went for a dawn test drive. It's hard to find the time in daylight otherwise, but a nice way to spend half an hour in the early am. Although dog disagrees. Car is already great fun to drive even though I still haven't adjusted camber etc and damping. Can be a bit of a handful to keep straight after a corner, but the surface is pretty slimy. I will also try a range of motors. With this 17.5t (and I think a 25 tooth pinion) it is quite driveable already. I will test up to 10.5 (Tamiya, which is apparently slow for the turns) after improving set up. 

Must learn how to put a video together 🤣

 

[BuggyDad 4474]

I think this is a nice car to teach me a bit more about setup. I'm a real novice - I understand the basic science but relatively little about the application, if that makes sense. I have changed the damping to 900 front, 600 rear (from 600/300), stock pistons. No other change (science!). Dropping the car there is still an oscillation, rather than the slow return to ride height of eg my B64, so perhaps it's still under damped but it drives better I think. Before, it felt more skittish. I could compensate from a slide but it was very likely to lose the back end on subsequent acceleration. Like maybe it would regain rear grip too aggressively? Now it feels like the slide is a bit more controlled and easier to transition into a straight acceleration.

However, this flies in the face of what I read: less damping = more grip, right? Or could it be the case that while less damping generates more grip, this is only up to a point and reducing damping further could lose grip again? 

As I said - proper novice still! 

Also, much colder morning, and actually I think the cold ground might (counterintuitively) offer more grip that the sliminess of yesterday's warmer winter morning. So I've not truly isolated one variable. 

Then there's diffs - stock 900 oil in there but I have bought 3k, 10k and 20k. I may go to the extreme at 20k in the front in an effort to learn about the impact on handling, before trying a middle ground. Or (just because honestly the change looks time consuming and this is only one of many variables) I may just go for 10k for now and work on suspension. 

[BuggyDad 4474]

Put 20k oil in the front diff and although I only got a very short test run in I think it's universally A Good Thing. More of an effect than I anticipated and I don't really see a downside. Sharper. No less fun. Cornering and acceleration improved, slides more controllable again. 

After that I swapped to the longer shock eyelets and dropped spring rates to soft rear and kit front, removed rear preload rings. With that ride height increased from 11mm to 20mm, and there remains very little droop. It's now a little prone to grip roll and shocks bottom out (just) before chassis. But (obviously) more capable over bumps/grass. Might run it like this a while and try to find a more rally appropriate driving spot, but it does lean me towards the idea of a long damper setup to see if I can combine a middle ground ride height of say 15mm for tighter driving characteristics but deeper available travel and more droop. I don't think I'll do that for a while though. 

Overall, I really really like how this thing slides and pivots around its front end. I wasn't sure I'd "get" the XV-01 love but I so do. It rocks. 

One characteristic I'm not sure about is that while it turns sharply under power it understeers heavily under braking. I'd either like it to turn in a bit more under braking or I have a fair bit more learning to do about driving it (well, I obviously do but you get my point). 

[BuggyDad 4474]

So a question... 

What tyres? 

Fastrax version of Tamiya rally blocks seem good but A. they're pre-glued; and B. I know nothing. 

Same or higher profile would be good (appearance). Same or better grip on a combination of wet slimy winter tarmac and dirt would be good. I don't much care about wear rate if they're not too pricey, or I do a bit more if they are.

So is there anything else I should look at? 

[ThunderDragonCy 7878]

If you want even taller profile you might be into smaller scale / crawler tyres. Although pricey I did find tamiya blocks to be thd softest compound of that style. I have a bunch of various cheap ebay special things in my bit box that didn't go great. Best for grip I have used are the Schumacher SST, but they are much smaller. More chunky touring car than rally. And they work best on regular on road 24mm wide rims

[foz75 93]

The escort shell looks really good,and the gold wheels match really well! But I can't see past the bumper 

What chassis is that escort shell designed for? Is there a list of bodies that will fit the xv-01 "correctly" , bumper included? (Or at least most of it, with some modification)

[BuggyDad 4474]

14 hours ago, foz75 said:

The escort shell looks really good,and the gold wheels match really well! But I can't see past the bumper 

What chassis is that escort shell designed for? Is there a list of bodies that will fit the xv-01 "correctly" , bumper included? (Or at least most of it, with some modification)

Fair point. There's barely room in that shell for the motor though, let alone any bumper. And with this pilot, protection is a necessity, believe me!

The shell is a Kamtec one with the right wheelbase but I don't think it is designed for any particular chassis. And it does have really no space in front. I bought it with fairly low expectations as a straight up runner, but it turns out I really like it (except I'm with you on the bumper - when I've sorted heights I might reset it and see how it looks bumperless, maybe even look for a bodge for some protection another way, but I'm not hopeful of that).

I have Tamiya Lancia and RSR Porsche shells to do. The Lancia shell will take some bumper, albeit with considerable cutting. I think there's also enough overhang on a porsche too, fingers crossed maybe even more, but I haven't got it yet so don't know for sure. Watch this space...

Oh, another thing on the Escort - turns out it's pretty much self righting. Like a lifeboat. Maybe if I get another one I should do it in RNLI livery. 

[BuggyDad 4474]

Got the right wheels and tyres on the car and took the bumper off for photos. Pleased with the stance. 

Dog is very wary of this horrible little machine. She's kept well away from it thus far, like she won't be in the same room with it. Yet, off comes the bumper and she's checking it out. Maybe she just shares @foz75's views on aesthetics?

There's still an ugly section of bumper there but there's little to be gained by removing it and anyway I won't run it bumperless so the full foam is back on now. 

Fitted a Tamiya TBLM 10.5T motor, put the short shock eyelets back on for tighter handling and gave it a run this morning. It went like a scalded cat. Control difficult though because of some crazy settings (exponential on max for both steering and throttle = nasty) on a new (to me) transmitter I'm using. Wasted lots of time trying to get to the bottom of that but have solved it now. 

Tested it again just now, in the dark, with the controls sorted and these soft tyres on. Still a scalded cat, and about as compatible with my dog as one, but so much fun. On tarmac, with lower ride height, it's great with this motor. That might not be the case with more of an off road set up. 

[Tamiyastef 1967]

Might be a nice project to put some sort of "period correct" massive front body kit on it to hide the bumper. You had real cars like this BITD where a piece of the radiator was visible lurking under the front, the part of teh bumper with the vertical cut outs reminded me of that. 

[Andreas W 1555]

How about making a duckbill,  like some of the guys are using in historic racing? Ok, there is no space for the complete bumper under there, but if the duckbill is made a little bigger there is probably space for let's say 1/3 of it . 

 

Pic borrowed from Barhaugen Media. An exzellent site for us petrolheads. 

[kontemax 1725]

16 hours ago, Andreas W said:

How about making a duckbill,  like some of the guys are using in historic racing? Ok, there is no space for the complete bumper under there, but if the duckbill is made a little bigger there is probably space for let's say 1/3 of it . 

 

Pic borrowed from Barhaugen Media. An exzellent site for us petrolheads. 

Two legends...

Max

[BuggyDad 4474]

On 12/21/2022 at 5:36 AM, Andreas W said:

How about making a duckbill,  

I like the idea but I think it's too far forward unfortunately. I could reduce the bumper to a minimum thickness where it still has some structural integrity, contour the bottom out and colour it (maybe tape it for a smooth silver or white face?) but I think it might still stick out too far to be reminiscent of a duckbill. Ordered some unbranded foam bumpers to try hacking them about with impunity. 

Now, any tricks to cutting to a nice smooth finish? I've cut mine to the Lancia shell, with an acceptable finish for that, but my knife work isn't up to making a nice finish on a visible part. Will also try sanding. 

[BuggyDad 4474]

Had a chance to give the XV-01 a run last night with a mate, so she crashed it into her own foot and broke a front arm. It was quite funny but lost us an arm, the little screw that retains the pin that nothing in The Ice Cream Tub Of Screws will replace, and the dogbone. Overnight I remembered XV-01 and XV-02 share the same suspension arms, and I'd bought CVDs, so I raided my unbuilt kit for the necessaries and today we got a run in daylight. Car is driving well but I can see life being quite hard on it, not so much breakages as just how massively scratched up the underneath is already. I will resume my search for a ride height middle ground sometime - it currently remains at stock ride height, which is quite low. 

And I look forward to the day I have a pair of XVs to play with together, having already bought a pair of super cheap second hand transmitters. But I think in that scenario I'd be wise to stick slower motors in. 

And then today we found both the dogbone and the unusual little screw in its small shard of arm. In the muddy line betwixt tarmac and grass in which such things are perfectly camouflaged. Miraculous double result. 

[BuggyDad 4474]

Fitted CVDs and took off the steering limit screws. More steering throw seems to make a big difference, mainly in terms of how it initiates a corner, also under braking, but I do need to cut a bit more off the wheel arches as a result. Anyway, gave it a run on frosty but dry tarmac and it was better than ever, by a big margin. So much fun. 

I also finally plucked up the courage to paint my Lancia shell. I'm going box art. Frustratingly there is a smokiness in a couple of areas where my white wasn't thick enough and my black backing has greyed it. I could do woth improving the lighting here, or painting in daylight. I suspect though, once running, it'll be one of those things only I notice and it'll only matter in the unlikely event I do a decent job of the million complex decals. I may start them tomorrow. If I do, I could be done by summer. 

[Tamiyastef 1967]

5 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

Fitted CVDs

Genuine Tamiya or aftermarket? Do you have a part number please?

5 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

paint my Lancia

Mine has been painted for months now but still has the protective film on and so needs some work on the extra bits and the decals and interior hasn't been started yet...

5 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

a decent job of the million complex decals

I'm not going to use the Martini ones. So you can start yours knowing if you mess them up I will send you spares 🙂.

5 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

I could be done by summer. 

😁 Those decals!  They make such a dramatic difference but always take me ages to get them finished. It's like the final step and messing them up or me feels like messing up all the previous work as well.

[BuggyDad 4474]

1 hour ago, Tamiyastef said:

Genuine Tamiya or aftermarket? Do you have a part number please?

Mine has been painted for months now but still has the protective film on and so needs some work on the extra bits and the decals and interior hasn't been started yet...

I'm not going to use the Martini ones. So you can start yours knowing if you mess them up I will send you spares 🙂.

😁 Those decals!  They make such a dramatic difference but always take me ages to get them finished. It's like the final step and messing them up or me feels like messing up all the previous work as well.

Ah thanks!

I'm annoyed with myself about the paint. I've made this build all about working patiently and deliberately. So I should've got this right. Should've left it overnight and inspected it really well in daylight to check it was really ready for black. Or just not backed it. The bad sections are big open easy bits as well. The sides. The nasty bonnet lip I got pretty good. The colour is great though. I went for pearl white then white. 

The CVDs I have are the genuine Tamiya ones, part number 54515.

[BuggyDad 4474]

Reading the "are hop ups a rip off" thread (with which I largely agree) I'm struck by the XV-01. It's not entirely innocent of this and isn't cheap, but mine is not far off stock and it wants for very little I think, so overall I'd go easy with this criticism in this case. 

Mine has the following, in rough order of my perceived importance:

Aluminium suspension mounts - I haven't tried it without but their strengthening effect is well documented, everyone has these and they probably should be in the kit. The cost adds up too, but then the omission saves significant kit cost and the addition of plastic ones in their place probably costs nothing, so you're hardly buying twice. And maybe it's OK without if you just run a silver can. 

Softer rear springs and damper oil. Some subjectivity but I think springs especially should be supplied roughly right and if the need for front and rear is quite different, as in this case, supply different. They're not really saving cost by putting these springs in the kit in place of softer ones. However, it will work as stock, unlike the DT-03 whose belly nearly drags on the ground with the stock rear springs. 

Harder front diff oil. Just choice, and the preserve of those who would tinker, even if it is very impactful. 

CVDs - I don't think you can say dogbones aren't fit for purpose. CVDs are an upgrade that really makes a difference because of steering throw, but they are an upgrade and, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think they're expected on a £200 kit? And how many dogbones do you have to lose in crashes to make CVDs cheaper? Quite a few, but you'd get there eventually. I never had a dogbone pop out except in a crash that snapped an arm, and a popped turnbuckle would do the same (and I've just lost a turnbuckle), but for me it would require a decent crash whatever. 

Reinforced belt - I have no idea whether it has had any effect in my use, I'm assuming very little functional, maybe some longevity. I just added it to a PJ order because it was cheap. 

Hex head screws - personal preference. 

I will shortly have FRP arms, but as crash replacements. I'll still use up the stock ones I have. 

I have also spent a fortune on long damper setup stuff, which I haven't fitted yet, but this is different - it's a load of stuff to make it into something different, not "better" as such. 

[Tamiyastef 1967]

13 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

It's not entirely innocent of this and isn't cheap

I've been running mine stock, so with a silver can. It's not needing any hop ups at all. I'm considering the front cvd's for the small racing by post tracks.

I might change my mind completely once I put a brushless setup in it...

[BuggyDad 4474]

3 hours ago, Tamiyastef said:

I've been running mine stock, so with a silver can. It's not needing any hop ups at all. I'm considering the front cvd's for the small racing by post tracks.

I might change my mind completely once I put a brushless setup in it...

I should perhaps clarify. I think it's excellent as stock. Not at all the kind of kit you spend 50% on top at the outset on basic performance/adjustment and resilience parts. But, there are a couple of things, namely ally sus mounts (perhaps front only?) and rear springs, that I think it makes sense to recommend as day 1 changes. 

Are you running stock springs all round?

Out of my two buggies, crawler and this, and accepting they're all different categories, this is my favourite car and it's close to stock. That could change though - I have other kits to build that I'm excited about. Maybe each one will be better than the last 😁. 

I have run mine with 17.5t brushless, which isn't far different to torque tuned, stock except rear springs/damping, and then 10.5t. When I made the change its driveability became a little hampered in various ways, which was then all solved by diff oil and CVDs (and maybe dry weather). I'm tempted next to reduce pinion size, to see what it does for acceleration and braking accepting it's at the expense of top speed. I might also try again the 17.5t motor at some point, or just dial down the transmitter settings. 

A question - is the stock pinion coated or easy wearing aluminium?