Jump to content
kontemax

A couple of wrong steps by Tamiya on re-releases

Recommended Posts

Egress Black Special and Hot Shot II Blockhead Motors

I believe that these new re-released add nothing to what we consider collectable.

Egress Black Special is simply boring.
Gray wheels and stickers don't excite me.
No mention for the blue windows, it seems a cheap plastic toy from the 80ies.
The only interesting thing is the gold dampers but this doesn't justify the money for the whole model.
The only positive aspect is the enlonged production of the spare parts.

A better idea would be a TRF edition for example, with glow orange wheels and gun metal gray body, different sticker scheme and colors and some hop up parts and modifications.
Or a Jamie Booth's edition, ça va sans dire.

Hot Shot II Blockhead... what can I say? It's ugly. Simply ugly, period.

As a graphic designer I don't believe Watanabe is a great designer.
His Hornet "a  pois" was childish, without ideas, listless.
I would never spend a penny in that model.
His Wild One was a fortuitous accident, a fluke, in my opinion.
Tamiya and Watanabe tried to repeat the shot with the Hot Shot II but failed precisely because the first time was a matter of luck.
They didn't understand what the aesthetic characteristics of the Hot Shot II were and, instead of increasing them, they went against them.
The Hot Shot II is thin, streamlined, wide and low, essential, without accessories, aggressive. They added accessories (lights and number plates), raised up the roof, messed up with the graphics, trying to repeat that of the Wild One Blockhead.
Not even the effort to do something different..
Now it's no longer thin, it's no longer streamlined, it's no longer low, it's no longer essential, it's no longer aggressive, it's no longer an Hot Shot II.

It would have been better to make a re-release equal to the original.
Or a special edition, perhaps full black, with black rims, no red parts and black Hi Cap shock absorbers.
Just a throwaway idea.
Or a Hot Shot III mixing Big Wig pieces with four shocks and other small modifications here and there.

But we are in the era of the lack of good taste with few ideas but, on the other hand, confused and ugly.
Let's not even mention that other freak who made the new Avante and the new Astute, I could die.
Watanabe missed two out of three and the only good one was a lucky accident.
Tamiya wants little expense and a lot of yield.

Two wasted opportunities, these two models, in my humble opinion.

We need and deserve more.

Max

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 2
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dont have particularlly strong views on the HS2 but feel the Egress was a bit of a let down for me particularly when they already had such a nice scheme on the Mini Egress BS with the green wheels and yellow/red decals which I probably would have bought if it had been a full size version of this. There were some members who made replica decals to recreate it but not sure they are around here anymore or as regularly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm looking forward to my Black Egress.  It's going to be awesome placed next to my Egress.  B)

I don't have that nostalgic connection with the HotShot2,  but I think anyone who has the BlockHead WildOne will want their HotShot2 version as well.   :D  

2023 is going to be an exciting year.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My post is an analysis concerning graphics and design.

Max

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

None of the Watabane designs click with me, not even the first Wild One.

One thing I would love Tamiya to do is create sticker packs for their cars. This would allow more "official" customization, potentially made by graphic designers (except Watanabe please) and more importantly perhaps increase body sales as people might want to have several bodies now that they can make several different official liveries.

Don't get me started on how sticker packs would enhance their touring/racecar product lines...

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Blockhead Hotshot 2 looks fine, its yet another variant on an old idea but it looks good enough with some bits of realism. It'd be better to release more parts for existing Hotshot variants though.

The Black Egress...looks like any other buggy. Not bad but no character to it. When I looked up the regular Egress I was surprised that it didn't even come with a motor!

I'd like to know what Tamiya has been doing to try to get new fans. I wouldn't mind them recycling stuff so much if it gave us more parts, but they seem more focused on collectors than people who play with their RCs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was quite surprised a graphic designer would single these two out for critisism.

I think both look far, far nicer than the originals. I think the Egress in particular just keeps on getting better looking. I never could get past the front shock angle of the original.

But then I guess I'm rather old fashioned in my tastes. I don't like anything monster, low-rider or stanced either.

Still, taste is to a large extent a personal thing, and I bet they sell thousands of both these models.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting and thought-provoking post.  I don't really have issue with the Black Egress, but to be honest, I wish Tamiya would just give us clear bodies and white wheels (so we can dye them) and let us use our own imagination.  It almost feels like today's corporations want to take our creativity away, which I don't think is intentional, it's just that supplying painted bodies and special editions is working for Tamiya's sales.

The HS2 seems to have divided opinion, and while I don't exactly dislike it, I agree with the OPs points - the colour scheme doesn't work with the shape of the car, the accessories don't work with the original design aesthetic and the whole thing feels like a rather easy rehash of something that worked well (IMO, the Blockhead Edition Wild One looked fab) instead of an attempt to design something new.  Nevertheless, I'm sure people will rush to buy it, for all the same reasons as they buy other special editions - to complete the collection, to speculate on future price rises, or to protect against those price rises.

I'm almost inclined to agree about the Hornet, too - IMO the design works, the colours work, nothing about it is particularly wrong, it just doesn't really do anything for me.  I don't really know why it's such a special thing.  But I can walk into a modern art gallery and feel exactly the same - art is supposed to evoke something in the viewer, and so much modern art fails to do that for me, yet it's good enough to go into an internationally-renowned gallery.  (Don't even get me started on people paying a fortune for NFTs).  I'm inclined to take this in the same way I take laws that I can't see the reason for - if I'm too stupid to understand then I should just be quiet and obey, and leave the discussions for clever people :) 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with you on the designs.

Out of interest have you designed Tamiyas using your background as a graphic designer. It would be interesting to see.

I must say I do see lots of Tamiya here which look waaaay better than the original designs. Perhaps we need a competition with votes to find our favourite home brew graphics.

Personally what a car looks like means as much to me as the performance. It's why I'd get a GH or a Wild One over a "better" buggy any day of the week.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tamiya should've re-re'd the original HSII as standard. Then mix things up with a wantanabe edition later on, as with other previous re-re's. I don't understand why they'd do this for....we want nostalgia and familiarity with what we grew up with, as with other re-re's around the HSII time period, not a wantanbe. Maybe there'll be a wantanabe tamiya falcon next totally different 🤔

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think people's perspective and satisfaction with Tamiya regarding these two models and their designs may depend on their emotional attachment to the original cars.

I have no historic attachment whatsoever to the Egress or Hotshot and I really like both the Black Edition and the Blockhead Motors.  I find them a nice twist on the originals, and for the Hotshot II I wouldn't buy a re-re of the original but will probably pick up the Blockhead edition.  Maybe Tamiya thinks, or through market research knows, this would be the case worldwide?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

I'd like to know what Tamiya has been doing to try to get new fans. I wouldn't mind them recycling stuff so much if it gave us more parts, but they seem more focused on collectors than people who play with their RCs.

As I said: "little expense and a lot of yield".

Max

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Fuijo said:

I was quite surprised a graphic designer would single these two out for critisism.

I chose these two because they are the last two releases but there would be so much to say about the many models. No mention about the two models designed by the freak.
 

I think both look far, far nicer than the originals. I think the Egress in particular just keeps on getting better looking. I never could get past the front shock angle of the original.

But then I guess I'm rather old fashioned in my tastes. I don't like anything monster, low-rider or stanced either.

Still, taste is to a large extent a personal thing, and I bet they sell thousands of both these models.

De Gustibus Non Disputandum Est but be careful, graphics, the theory of form, the theory of color and design have recognised, shared and standardized rules that go beyond simple taste. It's not always a matter of taste. Sometimes there are formal errors in the design of objects.

Max

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Mad Ax said:

Interesting and thought-provoking post.  I don't really have issue with the Black Egress, but to be honest, I wish Tamiya would just give us clear bodies and white wheels (so we can dye them) and let us use our own imagination.

Ah but that would break the "special edition" illusion if you could simply build your own edition!

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Mad Ax said:

Nevertheless, I'm sure people will rush to buy it, for all the same reasons as they buy other special editions - to complete the collection, to speculate on future price rises, or to protect against those price rises.

As I said this is the era of the bad taste.

... But I can walk into a modern art gallery and feel exactly the same - art is supposed to evoke something in the viewer, and so much modern art fails to do that for me, yet it's good enough to go into an internationally-renowned gallery.

You are touching a painful point here.
Art today, according to power, must be ugly.
It was the will of Adorno and the Frankfurt School that had the primary objective of destroying the culture and social structures of the West for political reasons.
The vision of the Frankfurt school spread from Germany in the 1930s to the United States, then from 1946 onwards it returned to Europe.
One of the cornerstones of the ideology of Adorno and company was that art no longer had to represent man but above all it no longer had to represent beauty but ugliness, suffering and pain.
Art no longer had to elevate but depress and make human beings ugly. Following this, everything else is our surroundings, bad taste and ugly life.



if I'm too stupid to understand then I should just be quiet and obey, and leave the discussions for clever people :) 

It's not you who's stupid.
If something isn't understandable it's because it's dirty and someone doesn't want you to understand it.
There is only one golden rule: never do what the power asks you to do. Even if you don't understand why, don't do it and you still know perfectly well that you're not wrong. Time will prove you right.

Max

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Baja500 said:

Tamiya should've re-re'd the original HSII as standard. Then mix things up with a wantanabe edition later on, as with other previous re-re's. I don't understand why they'd do this for....we want nostalgia and familiarity with what we grew up with, as with other re-re's around the HSII time period, not a wantanbe. Maybe there'll be a wantanabe tamiya falcon next totally different 🤔

I agree with you.
Tamiya should have released the original version of the Hot Shot II first, then the Watanabe version.
Or have it come out with two different bodies, one original transparent and one already painted Watanabe, as for the TXT-1.
Or, a Watanabe version could have been there but with much more commitment and originality.
In Italy we call it "heated soup", repurposed old stuff, not as good as freshly made.

Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Twinfan said:

I think people's perspective and satisfaction with Tamiya regarding these two models and their designs may depend on their emotional attachment to the original cars.

I have no historic attachment whatsoever to the Egress or Hotshot and I really like both the Black Edition and the Blockhead Motors.  I find them a nice twist on the originals, and for the Hotshot II I wouldn't buy a re-re of the original but will probably pick up the Blockhead edition.  Maybe Tamiya thinks, or through market research knows, this would be the case worldwide?

Let's face it: Tamiya reads us.
In fact, I think he even has some employees signed up here to test the waters and see trends, likes and dislikes.
Tamiya saw that Watanabe's Wild One was very successful and tried again with Watanabe's Hot Shot II but little effort is not always maximum yealds.

Max

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, kontemax said:

It's not always a matter of taste. Sometimes there are formal errors in the design of objects.

I'm sure we both agree, there are plenty of examples of formal errors in the design of objects, but people keep buying them because the celebrities and influencers say so.

13 hours ago, kontemax said:

Art today, according to power, must be ugly.
...

Art no longer had to elevate but depress and make human beings ugly

I have no particular problem with art that is ugly or depressing, and as a contrast there is still plenty of art that is uplifting and beautiful (although it may not be so well recognised - I don't know, I don't move in art circles).

Where I have a problem is with art that appears to me to have no message or symbology or anything that I can relate to; for example, something that seems to be to be just a photograph with some bizarre things in it.  Perhaps there is a message or a point to it all, and I'm just not clever enough to see it.  Or perhaps to understand art you have to study art, in a way the average person doesn't.  Or perhaps the art community has become so conceited in its lofty position that it feels safe in making up its own rules, then looking down at people who don't understand them.

Or maybe it's just me :lol:

Regardless, I am veering vaguely off-topic here...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Mad Ax said:

I'm sure we both agree, there are plenty of examples of formal errors in the design of objects, but people keep buying them because the celebrities and influencers say so.

Or simply because people know nothing about design. If a person can't read, he doesn't care if you write to him with a grammatical error. It's the same for design.
The taste for beauty is learned, it is not a gift of nature. If you've never learned the taste for beauty, you'll buy bad things because you won't know how to tell bad from good. And if you are a designer without a taste for beauty, you are simply incompetent and will produce bad things. This is the case of many truly horrid Tamiya models given into the hands of (alleged) young designers.
Usually the "young designer" is the worst of the worst because he hasn't had the life experience to learn the beautiful combined with the typical youthful conceit.
There are few geniuses in the world.

 

I have no particular problem with art that is ugly or depressing, and as a contrast there is still plenty of art that is uplifting and beautiful (although it may not be so well recognised - I don't know, I don't move in art circles).

Where I have a problem is with art that appears to me to have no message or symbology or anything that I can relate to; for example, something that seems to be to be just a photograph with some bizarre things in it.  Perhaps there is a message or a point to it all, and I'm just not clever enough to see it.  Or perhaps to understand art you have to study art, in a way the average person doesn't.  Or perhaps the art community has become so conceited in its lofty position that it feels safe in making up its own rules, then looking down at people who don't understand them.

Or maybe it's just me :lol:

Regardless, I am veering vaguely off-topic here...

The world of art today is full of rubbish, incompetent people, recommended without talent, corruption.
Often you don't see a message because there is no message.
Studying art certainly helps you to understand the patterns, the language, the taste for beauty, in short, to be more aware of the subject but if art has a message, even a poor man without education understands this. Indeed, originally art was a form of communication for those who had no education.
Today it is a self-referential thing of a bourgeois and arrogant social class that has closed in on itself believing itself to be higher in order to then tell everyone else what is right and what is not, how one should live and speak and what words to use. They are bad.
These characters do not produce art, they produce propaganda at best.
The problem isn't you, trust me, and you're not off topic because this is a post about beauty and design and art is the mother of it all.

Max

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't say I'm too bothered about the HS2 BH but then I can't remember anyone really being bothered about the HS2 originally. Around here it kind of fell in to the Super Sabre bracket BITD, and people just bought a Boomerang, until the Thundershot series arrived.

Egress BS is different though as that was the superstar. I quite like the BS but then the Egress is my favourite ever buggy so anything with the same shape is a win. Coming back to RC after years away though I'd much prefer the original to be available and like the idea of different decal kits to customise your own. If I had the spare cash I'd get a BS but will probably put thew money towards an original ReRe since I can't afford both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One day Tamiya will release a special paint your own version, oh !!, That's where they started, wasn't it?

I was going to say a special edition designed by a 5 year old boy, but that's how they all should be.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/21/2022 at 12:03 PM, kontemax said:

As I said: "little expense and a lot of yield".

Max

It would seem so, I will say that your posts on the "rules" in modern art circles might explain why so much art today is so derivative. But even if I'm a cartoonist (or artist), I don't keep up on what everyone else is doing, they're free to become manga artist no.733. I don't see anything outright offensive about these new designs though, the Hotshot 2s fine if mis-colored (should be red!), the Egress still looks better than the majority of the WLToys stuff.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I´m with Max in this mine field!

Watanabe´s Hornet did nothing to me, the Wild One was great with the Blockhead Motors graphics and paint scheme. I think it´s one of the best Rere´s Tamiya did. What´s totally off is the price! Around 240€ in Germany for a 2WD Wild one. I really would have liked one as light beach racer, but not for that price. Last week, Tamico sould a 4WD Vanquish for the same price. Not to speak about the dump prices of the fire dragon series. Anyway, the BH design worked on the Wild one to my opinion, because it was this VW based sandrail / Buggy scene thing of the Baja cars and beach racers. 

When I first heard about the Hot Shot 2, I suddenly remembered the ad slogan back from the days: " Er ist zurück! Heißer und gemeiner als je zuvor, aufpoliert und beflügelt von Rennsiegen..." I already thought about that mean, low slung buggy in black /red. Then the first video, and I was quite disappointed like Max. Just a warmed soup of the Wild One. Blue yellow, nearly same stickers, misplaced number plates with much too big and odd screws, raised roof line (Thanks Max for getting the point, I did´nt realize the reason off the odd look first). Then the next failure: Yellow CVA 2 designs. I really hoped for red CVA 2, if not CVA1 design. That would have given us spare parts for the originals and new customizing stuff for our other Tamiyas. Only thing, that will be o.k. is the price: 219€ @Seidel in Germany. Cheaper than the Wild One, for much more buggy considering 4WD and parts count.

Regarding the black Egress: It´s great, that some special parts are included like the gold Hicaps. But then the gold springs on it in a much brighter color? Doesn´t look the part. I think @bjorklo `s black Egress was the much more in the black theme.

Nevertheless I just got mine fo parts @kontemax, hpe you forgive me!:lol: I finally have the perfect dampers for my Avante `89 and the rest will go in a Vanquish CS Rere project...

But let me add, it´s great to have a forum like TC, where we can discuss such theme´s, where everyone has so much emotions in Tamiya, what they should do from our point of view. 

In the end, everything has it´s fans, that was already back in the days. My friend liked his Sonic Fighter a lot, I just saw the weak points all around.

Greets to all TC´lers, 

Matthias

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Nevertheless I just got mine fo parts @kontemax, hope you forgive me!:lol: I finally have the perfect dampers for my Avante `89 and the rest will go in a Vanquish CS Rere project..."

Ahahahahah no problem.
I made light gold Hi Cap dampers several years ago for my Avante 2001...
Time for a 2001 re-release, no special edition, however. 
Max

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/20/2022 at 4:35 PM, kontemax said:

My post is an analysis concerning graphics and design.

Max

Agree with you. Both are ver unimaginative. Very lazy execution. 
 

The black egress should have had all silver aluminium parts anodised dark.. eg stand offs, motor plate, sway bar holders. Rather they just made the front knuckles and shocks a shade darker. Lazy

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...