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BuggyDad

Sensorless ESC of choice

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For my lad's DT-03 we have a no name sensorless combo with a 4370kv motor on a 17t pinion. The speed is about right I think, however it's old and a bit glitchy, getting worse. Has a habit of cutting out and does the cogging thing quite a lot. I've replaced the switch which had a poor connection but that didn't solve it as well as I'd hoped. So at some point I think I will replace it. I guess the issue is ESC rather than motor so I could just replace that I guess, but I'm not sure. Bought 2nd hand and well used by us, so neither part really owes us anything. The sensored gear on my own cars drives night and day better but he doesn't need that, although interchangeability of kit is nice. And I like waterproofing and reliability, for which I think sensorless is better (although, my 10BL120 Speed Passion setup with some work to waterproofing has proved good too). 

So I guess where I'm heading is to educate myself a bit more on what's available. Cheap is good but I'm not obsessively cost cutting. Smoother is good and I'd pay a little extra for a little better but I'm not seeking perfection. Waterproofing and reliability are probably the most important real world factor. And I can't make his car slower, obviously! 

Budget? Kind of need to educate myself first to understand what represents value for money, but I guess I'm thinking that if a £30 ESC would solve this and improve performance that'd be a good result, or a little more if I'd be better buying a new combo. 

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The ARRMA sensorless ESCs are powerful and work well. Reliability is an issue.

They often can be found on ebay as pulls from RTR stunt truggies.

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A few example options:

1. Branded but at the cheap end sensorless combo - Surpass combo:

https://uk.banggood.com/Surpass-Hobby-Waterproof-F540-V2-Sensorless-Brushless-Motor-with-60A-ESC-for-1-or-10-RC-Vehicles-p-1548050.html 

~£36

Or similar ESC alone which would probably suffice with our existing motor, eg: 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002180799254.html

Recognised brand, ~£25.

 

2. A sort of "minimum cost sensored" option of

Very cheap ESC

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144805784132

& Surpass Rocket

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002921721067.html

or bluebottle

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001094274956.html (same price with shipping, waterproof)

Total ~£46

 

Sensorless combos are everywhere, and I don't really know how either to compare quality at the cheaper end or judge what you get for spending more. But some EG the above are at least from a recognised brand. I guess, but don't know, that the cheapest ones will do a lot of cogging, while more expensive options will close the gap on sensored?

Minimum cost sensored is only fractionally more money and probably only a little less robust/water resistant (especially if i use conformal coating on the boards). I guess, but again don't know, that this would be much nicer to use than sensorless in its price range.

So yeah, there might also be good reasons to go for "minimum cost sensored" instead. 

Will mull over and would love some input from you learned folk. 

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I'd go for another 10bl120. 

Although slightly over budget, they run sensored or sensorless motors, (down to a 4.5t) so gives pretty much scope for any 540 motor if/when you fancy upgrading that too.

Also, if you have/got a programme card, you can programme them both easily.

You can programme them off the button, but the programme card makes this soooooo much easier, even one handed, while filming it on your mobile! 🙄

 

 

For waterproofing, a great tip, was to push a bit of bluetac over open ports etc, I use it to cover the receiver ports too, and although I've not gone under water with them, they've had a bit of testing over the years...

 

2022-01-16_06-10-58

 

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2 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

I'd go for another 10bl120. 

Although slightly over budget, they run sensored or sensorless motors, (down to a 4.5t) so gives pretty much scope for any 540 motor if/when you fancy upgrading that too.

Also, if you have/got a programme card, you can programme them both easily.

You can programme them off the button, but the programme card makes this soooooo much easier, even one handed, while filming it on your mobile! 🙄

 

 

For waterproofing, a great tip, was to push a bit of bluetac over open ports etc, I use it to cover the receiver ports too, and although I've not gone under water with them, they've had a bit of testing over the years...

 

2022-01-16_06-10-58

 

There is also a lot to be said for having all the same too. I got these or 10BL60s in my XV-01 and my in the queue builds of XV-02 and Optima Mid. So I can use the programme card on every brushless ESC I own. 

Don't know why I didn't head this way earlier - kinda had significant cost cutting in mind but with only a little scope creep (and when are we ever going to avoid that?!) we would soon be back to 10BL120 cost anyway.

On waterproofing, mine with conformal counting on the board has yet to miss a beat, so I'll do that again. Worst place for water/dirt problems is motor sensor board for me, because it's out the back on a DT-03, so there may still be merit in the waterproof blue motors. Are these sensored ones what are referred to as "bluebottles"?

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2 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

Don't know why I didn't head this way earlier - kinda had significant cost cutting in mind but with only a little scope creep (and when are we ever going to avoid that?!) we would soon be back to 10BL120 cost anyway.

I spent years ,trying to do things cheaply, and it just ended up costing more money and frustration.

There's this esc from hobbyking, thats meant to be a decent esc, I know a couple of people who swear by them, and seemingly, you can 'flash' them with the hobbywing firmware, and it enables full boost & turbo. They've been on backorder for ever since I been looking to buy one to try.....🤦‍♂️

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbykingr-x-car-120a-brushless-car-esc-sensored-sensorless.html?fbclid=IwAR15FZ33oQIcQyv7rGoAt9TNCndfwgT7jaCXBI3i_sNdiWRKRtAMXnamLnk&___store=en_us 

 

2 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

Are these sensored ones what are referred to as "bluebottles"?

Not had much dealings with those, only sensorless I've used are, Goolrc (high kv but no power, and pot luck if you get a good one), finned skyrc (believed to be a 380 sized internals, so again, high rev no power) and Castle which are just awesome, and just got a Castle copy for £40 off ebay, so I'll need to give that a test.

Modelsport have an offer on for the speed passion motors, but only have 2....

4.5t for £20 and 5.5t for £24...

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23 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

Modelsport have an offer on for the speed passion motors, but only have 2....

4.5t for £20 and 5.5t for £24...

I bought a 5.5t from them for that sort of money some time ago, just I've got nowhere to put it (my B64 has an overheating problem with 7.5 or so). Do I need to buy another kit? 

🤔

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28 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

I bought a 5.5t from them for that sort of money some time ago, just I've got nowhere to put it (my B64 has an overheating problem with 7.5 or so). Do I need to buy another kit? 

🤔

Maybe!! 

I'm running the 5.5t in an Optima Mid...

Sure you can get a fan mount ,and run a centro fan for motor cooling though.

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4 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

Are these sensored ones what are referred to as "bluebottles"?

Yes, they are blue and unbranded. Usually found are the 17.5T and 13.5T ones. The 10.5T one you listed is a bit rarer.

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1 hour ago, Wooders28 said:

Maybe!! 

I'm running the 5.5t in an Optima Mid...

Sure you can get a fan mount ,and run a centro fan for motor cooling though.

I was thinking about doing something like that. I was skeptical as to how much impact the fan would have, and also felt I should probably tackle the cause better first anyway (presumably gearing mostly, but there may be some unnecessary resistance in the drivetrain). 

How's your Optima mid with that in (in both toughness and handling)? Mine'll be a runner I think, although I'm a bit worried about parts availability. 

26 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Yes, they are blue and unbranded. Usually found are the 17.5T and 13.5T ones. The 10.5T one you listed is a bit rarer.

Ah ha. Thanks. I might pick one of those up then. 

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6 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

I was thinking about doing something like that. I was skeptical as to how much impact the fan would have

All the guys with the Associated cars run motor fans at the club, I'm sure some have just servo taped them down.

I quite like these, fairly cheap, look pretty, and work :- 

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/centro-aluminium-cooling-fan-28000-rpm-5v-8v-30x30mm-jst-receiver-plug-442292

 

6 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

How's your Optima mid with that in (in both toughness and handling)? Mine'll be a runner I think, although I'm a bit worried about parts availability. 

Been really tough so far! 

It's not been overly used and abused. I did snap a front shock tower, but sent the set down to the carbon fibre guy down south (Nick Walker) ,who made me a set in 3mm carbon for cheaper than finding a new original set so 👍

Handling wise, it's a 30yr old car, so the lack of width means it won't go around a track as quick as the modern cars, but with the 5.5t, can hold its own down the straight!! 

Did a build thread , nailing in a Schumacher multi plate slipper clutch, which really helps keeping things in check (not sure why someone else's mid, pops up as the picture!?!? I would never ruin a vintage with 2.2" wheels....😳) :- 

 

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9 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

 Handling wise, it's a 30yr old car, 

Whoa! It's a proper old one? Madness!

But also fantastic!

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12 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

All the guys with the Associated cars run motor fans at the club, I'm sure some have just servo taped them down.

I quite like these, fairly cheap, look pretty, and work :- 

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/centro-aluminium-cooling-fan-28000-rpm-5v-8v-30x30mm-jst-receiver-plug-442292

 

I was toying between that idea and something motor mounted, like:

https://www.rcmart.com/yeah-racing-aluminium-540-and-550-motor-heat-sink-w-tornado-high-speed-fan-black-ya-0653bk-00106964

Figuring a bit of heat sink was probably a decent idea as well. 

If they mount OK just with tape thats good to know - I didn't have much luck finding a simple little right angle mount to screw it down to the floor (don't mind drilling). 

It's also interesting to hear that associated cars generally want fans. 

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43 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

It's also interesting to hear that associated cars generally want fans.

Just asked one of our top associated guys, and hes said to get a fan mount for a B74.1 or .2 ,seemingly they can with them, so yeah, sounds to be a known issue.

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20 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

Just asked one of our top associated guys, and hes said to get a fan mount for a B74.1 or .2 ,seemingly they can with them, so yeah, sounds to be a known issue.

Ah. Thanks. That's v kind. Looking at the B74 manual, they mount a fan as stock. It's pretty much the first thing bolted to the floor. So "known issue" might be an understatement! That mount fits to a central spine the 64 doesn't have, but thinking about it all I need is a little bit of something square section, or the aforementioned tape of course. Might still go heat sink though, on the assumption that would do more. 

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On 12/15/2022 at 7:33 AM, Wooders28 said:

10bl120.

With the TC discount these are <£36 at Fusion, so I've picked up 2. And it tipped me over into paying TC £15, so that's good. As is increased likelihood I'll buy my next kit from a supporter of this place. Win win win. 

Problem therefore very much solved thanks again to @Wooders28👍👍

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4 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

Problem therefore very much solved thanks again to @Wooders28👍👍

Turns out, it's not just my wallet that's safe from me!! 🙄😬🤣🤣

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