I woke up 35 years later to a RTR market

[gkatz]

35 years ago i was driving a fox and thundershot. back then it was all about the kits. you had to build them. you had to paints them it was sometimes more important than the drife itself.

35 years past and it seems like the current market is RTR based mostly. what am I missing? how can someone prefare a RTR model over something you build from scratch? am I simply too old?

of course this is a tamiya forum so most of you build but the overall market is a different animal

[Beetlemankurt]

Hey gkatz, welcome aboard! Yep, it's a different animal these days but still plenty of kits for those of us that were around in the 80s and 90s. 

I agree, RTR doesn't partcularly spin my tyres either, however I reckon if it helps hook some younger peeps into the hobby that then potentially  become interested in building and other aspects of rc then that's gotta be a good thing. 

Theres some other great changes for the hobby too, batteries etc have come a long way, no more 5 min nicad run times or risking burning down a 1:1 car (aka mobile charging platform) with the good ol 15 min quick charge leads...yep, if you remember those then you are in good company here ....

Fortunately, Big T and Kyosho seem to want to continue taking money off those of us that still enjoy a good build (ahhhhh...the smell of fresh tyres when opening a new kit...thats something that always gets me...sorry, slight sidetrack...).

Anyway, great to have you join TC, you'll find tonnes of help, discussion and good natured banter here. Now go get building! (Novafox is about to be re-released BTW)....

Cheers 

Kurt

[Pablo68]

This happened to me back in 2006/7-ish.
I went to my lhs to get a couple kits for my sons to get them into the hobby/christmas gifts. There were only two Tamiya kits in the place and a big display of mostly Traxxas and a few other RTR cars.
That and NiCad was pretty much a thing of the past and NiMh had been used for a while. LiPo was just becoming a thing.

It is a jarring experience.

[Evetsyelspih]

I’ve always loved building kits and still do to this day. So much fun building from scratch, gathering up hop ups before you build, and picking your own electronics. Tamiya is pretty much all I had except for a Gmade R1. Last year I bought a rtr Traxxas Fiesta Rally so I would have something to bash around and save wear and tear on my Tamiyas. Slow as heck! Of course I had to upgrade with a Hobbywing system and 3s lipo. It is a lot of fun, but nothing compares to Tamiya and building kits. It is nice to have one to beat on though, and Traxxas stuff is tough, but Tamiya kits are a work of art.

[Saito2]

I went through this experience too back in the early 2000's. I slowed down hobby-wise, while I was away at college. When I got out I just puttered around with my original stuff from the 80's as current stuff (aside from the Wild Willy 2) didn't interest me. It was the Tamiya re-releases that got me back into the RC market and when I looked around, I felt much the same as you. Tower Hobbies and Kyosho had broken up. Tamiya and kits in general that once dominated hobby shop shelves were gone and Traxxas was everywhere. Folks were T-Maxx crazy and the market was pushed headlong into RTRs. Even Associated had to start offering RTR versions.

Some may opine that RTRs like Traxxas opened the gates to RC that were closed to those that couldn't hold a driver or turn a wrench (or those that had to have things now). To this day, while I accept that, I can't really get my head around it. Building was half the fun back then and, at my age, is probably 75% of the fun now (if not more). Pulling something RTR out of a box built feels like something from a toy store (when they still existed!) not a hobby shop (when they also still existed!). I don't feel like I earned or accomplished anything. I would feel like a consumer, not a hobbyist. Worst of all, my burning drive to see how stuff worked or was engineered would go unquenched. I don't own the awesome Losi LMT to this day because of it. But these are all just personal feelings and not meant gatekeep or be snobbish toward  those that do enjoy RTRs. As long as kits exist, there's room for all.

[Nobbi1977]

The RTR market has created a huge market for customisation. Most of the models need constant parts fixes or modifications to make them do what the owners want.

I guess you don’t build the kit but you do rebuild it every few hard runs

[Willy iine]

Honestly with my vision not being able to keep up with me, RTR is a great option as I do not need to physically build something I already know how and just enjoy finishing the final touches to make it mine.  The Kyosho HakosukaGT-R is a perfect example.  I made some minor suspension adjustments to match my driving environment, swapped receiver and servo to my usual gear.  Drives great, looks fantastic.  

It's not like I am building a competiton racing chassis, so the 'generally accepted" setting is a good start for me to fine tune it from there.  I don't need to be assembling diffs to enjoy this hobby.    When I want to truely build, I just build stuff out of styrene..no kits..anyone can build kits..just sheets and tubes.. and a boat load of hope.. 

[BuggyDad]

If I think of the life of the rc cars I own, they have been built, damaged, repaired, modified for their failings, upgraded with fancy parts later, had different shells on, etc. So you could argue that only a fairly small part of that would be lost without the initial build stage, which is just assembly according to a manual. That process is not really "mine", I'm just carrying out instructions. 

However, as I do it the result is I know the machine. And I think it paves the way for what follows. And I still enjoy it quite a lot. So for me it's kits all the way. Pretty sure I'll never buy an RTR. But if I was being really dispassionate about it the distinction shouldn't matter that much (well, not as much as it does to me). 

For a kid, I think the build is more than that though. It paves the way in a deeper sense and there's going to be a lot going into that head on the first kit build. 

[SlideWRX]

I think generally in this hobby everybody is a different mix of Driver, Mechanic(Builder) and Creator.  Even then, your mix of these when you get into the hobby won't be the same mix after a couple years.  Early stuff pretty much required you to be a Builder, but RTR allows the Driver especially to get into the hobby and learn the mechanic side of things as they go along.  It helps Creative types to who don't want to drive a lot, or don't want to do the assembly but want to make something special to them or unique on top of the chassis.

The kits are still out there - Tamiya obviously has a lot, but a lot of crawlers are kits or just pick a frame, select some axles and go from there - even less of a kit than what we got in the 80's.

[RustyHunter]

For me, RTRs offered a relatively cheap, relatively low investment in a hobby I wasn't sure I would enjoy. I had gotten to drive my dad's Super Champ around a bit and had a good time with what it was (complete with MSC and tired battery), but he wasn't sure I was going to click with RC. Looking back, I wish I would have gotten a kit and built it myself, but I think starting with a Traxxas made sense at the time.

And there's nothing keeping people from getting into the building after a while. I've been working on a custom monster truck build and have also been helping my fiancee put together a re-re Optima which has been a lot of fun!

I think there's also a financial incentive to RTRs - I can't imagine how many kids get one from well meaning parents, run it until something breaks, and throw it in the back of their closet or just lose interest as they get older. The parents might never have bought anything, so I suppose it's an easier sale for hobby shops, even if it hurts the hobby side of RC.

[Kowalski86]

I don't necessarily have a problem with RTRs, but it is jarring walking into a hobby store and seeing models that require assembly, train sets that require assembly, planes that require assembly, and RCs that require maybe a battery or two.
On the other hand, I understand buyers who might not want to cut out bodies, paint, stickers, etc. There are few kits that come with everything required.

Heres some irony though, while RCs have moved towards instant gratification, videogames (arguably something thats hurt the hobby the most) have moved toward delayed gratification, lots of "crafting", "grinding", loading screens, microtransactions for every little personalization item. THIS I cannot wrap my mind around! If I'm going to sink time and money into "progression" at least let it be something I can put on a desk! 

[alvinlwh]

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[Fish Slice]

15 hours ago, gkatz said:

35 years ago i was driving a fox and thundershot. back then it was all about the kits. you had to build them. you had to paints them it was sometimes more important than the drife itself.

35 years past and it seems like the current market is RTR based mostly. what am I missing? how can someone prefare a RTR model over something you build from scratch? am I simply too old?

of course this is a tamiya forum so most of you build but the overall market is a different animal

I'm the same, building (and subsequent fettling) is probably the majority of my fun with RC. So often when trying to look sometimes for something new outside of Tamiya, it's often frustrating to find very few kit options, or kits that need all sorts of other bits to make a car.

RTR is not for me. I don't fully understand it, it would be like Lego only being available ready built for instance.

That being said, I used to build loads of kit cars back in the day for people who couldn't, or weren't confident too.  Near Christmas, I'd often knock up two or three cars on a weekend for people.

So the market was always there before the products were. There's space for both, but I think kits have been squeezed out, and taken away some learning you can get from them.

[Fish Slice]

1 hour ago, alvinlwh said:

As a static modeller, I only build. I don't even buy built secondhand cars.

Totally get this. I remember buying a built Clod once and it did nothing for me. I think I sold it on pretty quick as I just wasn't invested in it.

First and last time I think I bought built and used.

[alvinlwh]

.

[87lc2]

I'm with you, I refuse to buy an RTR.  I'd rather but a used up dirty truck and rebuild it myself than buy a new RTR vehicle, absolutely no fun in that whatsoever.  I guess I've cheated and bought a few (Losi LMT comes to mind - can't get a kit), but I always end up tearing them down and rebuilding anyway.  I'd say building/tinkering is 80-90A% of the fun for me.  If I couldn't work on my RCs I wouldnt bother.  It's really just soemthing to keep me busy. 

When I see guys that not only buy RTRs from hobby shops, but actually bring them back to be fixed when they break it just baffles my mind.  If all I could do was drive RCs there's no way the hobby would have kept me interested for so long.