Old vs New Tamiya Kits

[Kowalski86 3036]

This isn't another topic on vintage models vs re-re, more so modern vs old kits. DT-02 vs Hornet, Frog vs Neo Fighter, etc.

 

Is it more fun to build a modern kit? And what about driving a modern Tamiya vs the old designs?

 

I do understand that most modern Tamiyas have more hop-ups, and easily more potential for "good" handling. But I don't understand the kits that require hop-ups just to go straight or be on par with modern RTR models. I absolutely understand why a design from 1983 is going to have its share of problems...even if re-releases of said design should have them ironed out.

 

 

[Sogogi 3219]

I actually enjoy building old school kits bit more. Mainly because I am used to modern car design (which is similar to modern rc design with double wishbone setup, suspensions), I find old designs very cool and quirky at the same time. 

[Saito2 6686]

Re-re/vintage kits are way more fun for me to build in most cases than Tamiya's modern offerings. I say that having built multiple versions of every Tamiya off-roader from the first 100 aside from the original Holiday Buggy/Sand Rover (not DT02 version) and the Falcon. The newer kits are far more basic and stream-lined which kills the fun for me. Sorry for the fans of these buggies, and this is just an opinion, but the DT03/03 or TT02B is a snooze to build over a Hotshot, Avante or Astute, etc.

There are modern kits that are interesting though. The High Lift, TXT, and CR01 series come to mind. The new TD4/2 also look new and interesting as well as the CC02 possibly. In the end, I think my personal mantra is becoming: Life's short, drive vintage.

[Kowalski86 3036]

@Saito2

For me the DT-02 is a blast to drive, but the design felt like a very watered down conventional buggy chassis, hardly any tuning options to play with.

But to be fair, DTs and TTs are meant for newcomers. The Holiday Buggy in particular could be seen as today's Grasshopper.

[alvinlwh 5895]

I had built Tamiya static models that dated from 1970s to today, there is a certain standard I expect from them. Obviously the older kits are less precise, details or easy to build. On the RC side, I had built a DT-02 and a Frog, and find that the modern one is easier to build compared to the rere one.

[Twinfan 1253]

DT-02 is incredibly simple to build, they go together beautifully.  I have a Mad Bull which I think would make an excellent starter build.  I'm looking forward to my TD2 build to get a real feel for what the modern stuff is like.

The vintage stuff I've done (Lunch Box, Fire Dragon etc) hasn't been particularly quirky or difficult.  I haven't built a Hotshot, my upcoming Novafox will be the closest to that.

I think both new and old are fun and enjoyable, just in different ways.  I suspect my Cougar Classic build is going to be more hassle than fun though!!!

[Willy iine 18806]

Which chassis is the SandViper again? DT02?  That is the last modern buggy I bought and for the price it drives quite well.  GrassHopper/Hornet (including my Pajero) has that odd ball on-throttle binding rear suspension and pogo sticks up front which are totally unacceptable by today's design standards probably, but they are so fun to drive!    

This car is so cool I'm just going to shamelessly share it again.. 

[Kowalski86 3036]

18 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

Which chassis is the SandViper again? DT02?  That is the last modern buggy I bought and for the price it drives quite well.  GrassHopper/Hornet (including my Pajero) has that odd ball on-throttle binding rear suspension and pogo sticks up front which are totally unacceptable by today's design standards probably, but they are so fun to drive!    

This car is so cool I'm just going to shamelessly share it again.. 

The Sand Viper is indeed a DT-02, yours looks much nicer than the box art!

[Willy iine 18806]

26 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

The Sand Viper is indeed a DT-02, yours looks much nicer than the box art!

Thanks man.  I going to swap that motor to a BZ soon.. 

[Dakratfink 967]

I have built M06 and the G6 -01 king yellow .they are both enjoyable builds and fun to drive and build .

Comparing the NIB builds to “rebuilding “ a vintage hornet and FAV I got 2nd hand they have their place.

Hornet’s gear box is so I almost didn’t need a manual to rebuild it meanwhile the G6-01’s entire chassis IS a gearbox.

differemt type of experience but I get joy from driving and building both 

[87lc2 2666]

I interpreted your title incorrectly, but I'll respond anyway - Newer kits are losing some of the coolness of the older kits in my opinion.  Just bought a Super Clod kit to steal the axles from and was really disappointed in the hardware - most of it was white zinc plated rather than the old school yellow zinc or even black oxide/zinc coated.  Small change, but definitely made the kit feel "cheaper" when I built it.  

[Ziddan 947]

Ive been back into RC for about a year, started with a TT02B, then a DT02 but have since built, a grasshopper, terra scorcher, lunchbox and blackfoot, the reres are all more interesting to me for some reason.

Never built any kits back in the nineties, drove some toy grades but eventually traded away a daisy pellet rifle for a Marui Big Bear and enjoyed it greatly until it chewed its diff which i had no idea there were replacement parts for.

Tho im now looking at maybe picking up a T3-01 just because the leaning looks cool and like it would make a great FPV vehicle

[Dakratfink 967]

1 hour ago, Ziddan said:

m now looking at maybe picking up a T3-01 just because the leaning looks cool and like it would make a great FPV vehicle

I love my T3-01. It’s unique and fun to drive.

I really enjoy the learning curve of driving it and feeling the difference lean angle and speed make in every turn. 
I think it would make an awesome FPV vehicle. 

[Kowalski86 3036]

2 hours ago, Ziddan said:

Ive been back into RC for about a year, started with a TT02B, then a DT02 but have since built, a grasshopper, terra scorcher, lunchbox and blackfoot, the reres are all more interesting to me for some reason.

The DT02 and TT02B are much more streamlined designs comparable to other buggys and touring cars (the TT-02B being a touring car gone buggy), most of the reres were designed in a time when RC design was still experimental.
Your Terra Scorcher is more or less a relative to the Hotshot, one of if not THE first 4WD RC buggys.
 

1 hour ago, Dakratfink said:

I love my T3-01. It’s unique and fun to drive.

I really enjoy the learning curve of driving it and feeling the difference lean angle and speed make in every turn. 
I think it would make an awesome FPV vehicle. 

Its designs like the T3-01 that set apart Tamiya from the rest of the market, not many other RCs manufacturers making tractors that pull wheelies or three-wheeled trikes!

[alvinlwh 5895]

Wrong post! 😁

 

[Jonathon Gillham 4607]

I think it depends on what new kits you're looking at. A few years ago I built 2x TT02B then a month later a Novafox and Boomerang (you can all recognised the slippery slope...) and at the time thought that the TT02B was much more basic etc.  Look at the front hubs, the TT02B has the c-hub amd knuckle with no bushing etc, it just works. The Boomerang has the pivot ball setup with lots of little extra parts which made it feel like a more complicated build (which it is, i'm hoping my son asks for one for his birthday). 

However, having built a whole range of kits now such as the Durga, TA07, HB418, Ae B6D, HB817, TRF102, Sand Scorcher, Fire Dragon etc I have a different view.

The TT02 is a fantastic entry level build as it goes together nicely and a new person to the hobby will be able to build it with no experience but take a huge amount of satisfaction from it. The TT02B is comparable to the Boomerang as they are both entry level 4wd buggies (although the Boomerang is amazing but the TT02B isn't) but it has 30 years of development to make it so simple and just work.

If you build modern car which aren't entry level like the TA07 (the build is very similar to TRF419) or Durga (build is comparable to race kits too) then they are a lot more complicated despite looking like they have a very similar layout to the TT02. They need shims to take up slop, have better materials which may need tapping rather than self tapping screws, shocks always have separate pistons, the list goes on.

So back to the original question. A modern kit like the TT02 is much simpler which appeals to some, but others prefer the complexity of older designs. Some modern kits are far more complicated than that, which most on here would prefer but some may think are overly complex and fiddly.

Modern kits handle better, however when looking at buggies the TT02B handles better on tarmac but a rere like the Fire Dragon or Boomerang will out perform a TT02B offroad as they have much better ride height.

If you want performance and a more challenging build then try a TA07/8* for belt or TB05 if onroad is your thing. If you like offroad then the DB01 Durga is the best bet.

*The TA08 is the latest however it uses completely different arms and hubs compared to all the other TA/TB/TRF cars. Prior to the TA08 the arms/hubs/knuckles were like lego from ages ago through to TRF420X - you could swap old for new and new for old. If you want a carpark racer/basher the TA07/TB05 may be a better option than the TA08 because of this, but the TA08 is apparently fastererer/bettererer

[Saito2 6686]

Giving it more thought, I think another factor that makes the old off-roaders more fun to build is the variety spawned by ignorance. A TRF 201 isn't a boring build, but once you've built one, you've also built an Associated B4 more or less. By that stage of the game, everything had been figured out for the rear motor, 2wd comp buggy architecture. Conversely, a Hotshot, Thundershot, Avante, and Top Force will all grant you very different and unique build experiences because the formula hadn't been figured out. Even top level  buggies at the time varied, A Cat XLS is nothing like an Avante or Turbo Optima Mid SE. While they might be less precise track weapons than today's buggies, their unique takes on what it took to be the best led to interesting built experiences as well as driving dynamics. On the other hand, as a basic 2wd buggy, building a DT02 will not be that different than a DT03. Its just the nature of things as we zero in on a more perfect product for a particular sector.

[Willy iine 18806]

3 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Giving it more thought, I think another factor that makes the old off-roaders more fun to build is the variety spawned by ignorance. A TRF 201 isn't a boring build, but once you've built one, you've also built an Associated B4 more or less. By that stage of the game, everything had been figured out for the rear motor, 2wd comp buggy architecture. Conversely, a Hotshot, Thundershot, Avante, and Top Force will all grant you very different and unique build experiences because the formula hadn't been figured out. Even top level  buggies at the time varied, A Cat XLS is nothing like an Avante or Turbo Optima Mid SE. While they might be less precise track weapons than today's buggies, their unique takes on what it took to be the best led to interesting built experiences as well as driving dynamics. On the other hand, as a basic 2wd buggy, building a DT02 will not be that different than a DT03. Its just the nature of things as we zero in on a more perfect product for a particular sector.

I always wonder (worry) whether the new chassis is an improved version or a cost savings version.  Like my DF02 (AeroAvante) seems to use more metal bits than the all plastic TT02B... but in TT02B's defense, the car does drive better than the DF02. 

 

[Kowalski86 3036]

12 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

The TT02 is a fantastic entry level build as it goes together nicely and a new person to the hobby will be able to build it with no experience but take a huge amount of satisfaction from it. The TT02B is comparable to the Boomerang as they are both entry level 4wd buggies (although the Boomerang is amazing but the TT02B isn't) but it has 30 years of development to make it so simple and just work.

Handling is a key factor with old/new kits, someone whos new to the hobby could easily build a Hornet or a Grasshopper but they may not like how they drive, while a DT or TT-02B will turn tighter and won't run the risk of flipping over for seemingly no reason. 

[Jonathon Gillham 4607]

48 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

Handling is a key factor with old/new kits, someone whos new to the hobby could easily build a Hornet or a Grasshopper but they may not like how they drive, while a DT or TT-02B will turn tighter and won't run the risk of flipping over for seemingly no reason. 

This is a very good point. I have a Lunchbox but got it when I was too far along in the hobby to enjoy it - its just so bad! You need a Lunchbox before a Monster Beetle to really appreciate it, and the same will go for a Hornet and DT buggy. I think people who are new to the hobby will be very disappointed if they buy s Hornet snd expect it to be like a RTR Arma or Traxxas etc.

@Saito2 is spot on here, modern kits are all very similar because the designers are just trying to make incremental  improvements to what is basically perfect. The evolution of race kits just follows the evolution of surfaces that we run on, generally newer is designed for higher grip.

[Kowalski86 3036]

4 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

This is a very good point. I have a Lunchbox but got it when I was too far along in the hobby to enjoy it - its just so bad! You need a Lunchbox before a Monster Beetle to really appreciate it, and the same will go for a Hornet and DT buggy. I think people who are new to the hobby will be very disappointed if they buy s Hornet snd expect it to be like a RTR Arma or Traxxas etc.

Count me as one of the fools who went to the trouble of installing oil shocks on a Lunchbox, choosing springs/oil specificly to make handling more stable, only to realise that you're better off sticking with pogo sticks.

People who are new to the hobby might also be dissapointed by picking up dogbones, friction shocks, plastic bushings, etc, compared to what a basic $150 ECX comes with. I've tolerated it for the "character" of some models, but I feel like Im being upsold when Im told "if you want good steering you'll need an upgrade".

[alvinlwh 5895]

9 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

but I feel like Im being upsold when Im told "if you want good steering you'll need an upgrade".

This had been discussed before and it caused a few upsets.

 

 

[qatmix 794]

The T3-01 (Dancing Rider),  / SW-01 (Lunchbox Mini / Mud Mad) and TC-01 (Formula-E) are the most unique out of the recent model kits to build and run. Some really nice engineering in all of those.  

[Kowalski86 3036]

Not to necro bump this thread too much, but after re-building a Grasshopper, Midnight Box, and building my M05 kit, I'll say this:

I like the old/re-release kits more, the bodies are so much simpler to do and the boxes better organized. Lexan/polycarbonate looks great when done right, but stickers are quite annoying and buying paint at $8 (or more) a can gets old fast.

My hats off to anyone that can make a Martini Porsche or Lancia look box art, I think I'll get into modeling for scale realism!

[alvinlwh 5895]

3 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

My hats off to anyone that can make a Martini Porsche or Lancia look box art, I think I'll get into modeling for scale realism!

IMHO, stickers for RC is easy. Decals are more tricky to work with but produce a much nicer result if done correctly.