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gkatz

budget brushless motor + esc thats good enough for me :)

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20 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

@Fabia130vRS modulation is how much resolution there is in the throttle response.   

Like the newer TBLE02S has poor modulation, 1060 has very refined modulation.  LeMans240s ESC had poor modulation, XR10 JustStock has super refined modulation when mated to LeMans240S BL , etc.  

Thank you for a quick reply, this topic goes much further I guess. 

 

I for myself have noticed differences in transmitter to receiver response between my Sanwa and a FlySky GT3. The Sanwa had a very sensitive steering and throttle compared to the FlySky. Some details I have gathered are that the FlySky protocol operates for example at 1mm rates while the Sanwa is more precise to 0.5mm rates.

Also, what you mentioned modulation, from my experience it is always better to buy combo sets of ESC's and motors rather then everything seperate. If you do not have exact details upfront. 

Most of this cheap china brushless esc's are copies of hobbywing esc's.

for example, the Hobbyking X Car 120A esc was like 25$ but a direct copy od the 10bl120.

And so is gool rc. Bigger company's charge more for their sets because of higher service level, higher standards compared to ebay seller protection for example.

This same esc like gool rc of tamico cost's like 60€

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9 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

I did not recommend Trackstar/Hobbyking(is Trackstar a HK brand?) as HK seems to have greatly reduced stock these days. Feels like they are winding down after posting their NL warehouse. I also have their own label ESC which is said to be an old HW one and is good value but can never find the programmer for it.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbykingr-x-car-120a-brushless-car-esc-sensored-sensorless.html

 

I recommended the TS50 in my post above. SkyRC had also a great esc line with 120A.

 

I had two Hobby king X car 120A's with the USB PC setup cable, it used the Hobbywing USB software for PC as a setup card.

I tbh think the chip shortage and maybe some copy rights killed their business. The trackstar v1 and v2 can pretty much be compared to the muchmore fleta series. Same as this x car series to the hobbywing 10bl60 and 10bl120

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39 minutes ago, Fabia130vRS said:

So... Let say I am going to match a sensored Trackstar 13,5T motor...

The motor has a peak current rating of: 360A

360A??? HK specs only stated 36A as the max current?

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3 minutes ago, Fabia130vRS said:

I had two Hobby king X car 120A's with the USB PC setup cable, it used the Hobbywing USB software for PC as a setup card.

The USB is no longer available either. Will a HW card work? If so, which one?

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7 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

360A??? HK specs only stated 36A as the max current?

Yes, I figured it. In other terms... a 36A motor should run of at least a 30A ESC. I knew I had something wrong. As Willy said, modulation is something to watch for, but in cheap electronics, you don't have always all info, that is why it is a hit-and-miss sometimes. There is a connection between motor peak current, ESC peak current and battery peak current tho.

6 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

The USB is no longer available either. Will a HW card work? If so, which one?

I am not sure. The USB software of hobbywing lets you update the firmware to special software editions for boost turbo or blinky mode.

This is regarding the modulation, as different firmware are differently programmed for throttle response.

It is worth checking the usb cable by the hobbywing part number, I can not find it to be honest atm.

app:

https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/pages/download

this program card. The X Car esc is a copy of the Xerun.

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32278064576.html

 

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6 minutes ago, Fabia130vRS said:

this program card. The X Car esc is a copy of the Xerun.

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32278064576.html

This is a start, a local member has that. Will give it a shot. Thanks.

 

7 minutes ago, Fabia130vRS said:

Yes, I figured it. In other terms... a 36A motor should run of at least a 30A ESC. I knew I had something wrong. As Willy said, modulation is something to watch for, but in cheap electronics, you don't have always all info, that is why it is a hit-and-miss sometimes. There is a connection between motor peak current, ESC peak current and battery peak current tho.

That is a lot of info to work out, I just go by the turn limits set by the ESC docs. 🤣 My TS50 said 8.5T for TC and 11.5T for buggies so I used a 13.5T to be safe.

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1 hour ago, Fabia130vRS said:

Thank you for a quick reply, this topic goes much further I guess. 

 

I for myself have noticed differences in transmitter to receiver response between my Sanwa and a FlySky GT3. The Sanwa had a very sensitive steering and throttle compared to the FlySky. Some details I have gathered are that the FlySky protocol operates for example at 1mm rates while the Sanwa is more precise to 0.5mm rates.

Also, what you mentioned modulation, from my experience it is always better to buy combo sets of ESC's and motors rather then everything seperate. If you do not have exact details upfront. 

Most of this cheap china brushless esc's are copies of hobbywing esc's.

for example, the Hobbyking X Car 120A esc was like 25$ but a direct copy od the 10bl120.

And so is gool rc. Bigger company's charge more for their sets because of higher service level, higher standards compared to ebay seller protection for example.

This same esc like gool rc of tamico cost's like 60€

I am not certain this is the case for me as the $400(?) HobbyWing combo I got for my 420X is not as smooth as XR10 JustStock with LeMans 240S or Tamiya’s BL’s..   this was the case years ago when I bought their stock combo as well.  

The LeMans 240S ESC with their 240S BL (even tried their Gold motors) was not as smoother either..  honestly Kyosho should stay away from doing ESC’s.. their Mini-Z ESC is pretty horrible too and mine are their flagship EVO series run off my 7PXR.

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23 hours ago, gkatz said:

 

BTW, I am a hobbyist not a racer... if I have a 150$ car so I dont think putting more that 50-60USd on this combo makes sense...

 

I've read through and you've already got some good suggestions.  I'm a fan of sensored brushless systems and have them ranging from cheap and cheerful to expensive.  For the type of driving it sounds like you're doing it sounds like you can buy at the cheaper end as you won't use the adjustment available with the high end ESC.  So what really matters is the amp rating / motor limit.  120amp generally means you can run a 4.5T motor which is a good place to aim for.

On the point above though, its not like spending $7000 on a new engine for a 1:1 car worth $4,000, its more like spending $15,000 on a turbo V8 that you can swap between all of your $4,000 cars with half an hours work.  Obviously that becomes a hassle, but once you've tried them out you know what you can expect and can decide to buy more ESCs etc.  Something like the HW 10BL120 or SkyRC TS120 will run all the motors that you could ever want (down to 4.5T or something) and also can handle 3S lipo, and can be programmed with turbo and boost if you want more speed.  

As for motors, there are some great cheap sensored options out there too, like Trackstar, Speed Passion or Surpass V3.  They are older models so won't keep up with newer motors if you're racing, but that doesn't matter for you as you can just buy a lower turn version of it instead.  So 1 ESC for US60 or so, then the motors are about US30 each so you can buy slower or faster depending on what you want.  Try to get them with endbell timing as that allows some adjustment too

 

A few other things to consider though.  I don't generally spend much on hop ups for cars like the TT02B but some like bearings are essential for any car.  From the list you posted about what you've bought, you have bearings which is a great start.

Gearing - gearing is key for brushless motors.  There are videos out there showing that a brushed 23T motor is as fast as a 10.5T or something, but they're not.  If you just swap the motor over and do nothing else then you aren't making the most of the motor.  For the TT02B the best way is to buy the high speed gearset and the Yeah Racing motor mount (I see you got a slotted mount from Aliexpress, should work fine).  The high speed gearset allows any normal spur, and the motor mount has a slot instead of holes so you can set the mesh yourself.  These 2 combined allow you to run any gearing combination that you'll ever need.  You can also switch to 48p gears which are cheaper and easier to find that the mod .6 that Tamiya uses.  If you get the gearing wrong you'll either be disappointed that its slow, or cook the motor (which could be disappointing, or worse, it will be fast for a short time though).

Diffs - you'll probably destroy the stock rear diff really quickly.  The DF02 alloy diffs drop straight in (you need the internals, cases and then to file the diff pinion) and they are bulletproof.  They sap power though compared to the standard diffs so only use them with hotter motors, otherwise they make the car feel really slow with the kit motor.  Or, the stock diffs are cheap enough to buy a few and replace as required.

Gearing - did I mention how important gearing is?

Good luck deciding

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On 2/6/2023 at 11:49 PM, gkatz said:

Hi all;

looking for a brushelss motor and esc to up my speed on the stock tamiya neo scorcher (silver can).

I only want to replace motor and esc (keep my nimh battery for now)

my criteria is simple:

  • more speed (prefferably a lot more but the car should still hold),
  • longer run times (so less batter drain),
  • easy on the pocket (i want something up to 60usd range if thats possible),
  • brand motor? (i am not sure i need a branded one),
  • sonsored? (prefferably)

i think thats it :) i am not sure if there exists a motor that fits my needs,

BTW, I am a hobbyist not a racer... if I have a 150$ car so I dont think putting more that 50-60USd on this combo makes sense...

thanks for your help!

If your Buggy came with the Hobbywing 1060 id check out these brushed motors first.

28 bucks for cheap fun.

https://www.associatedelectrics.com/reedy/parts/motors/brushed/

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I think typically, mechanical focused companies arent always good at creating good electronics. I am also disappointed at tble02s.. but since it was included in the kit, i will take it. Also how tamiya bl motors are underperforming compared to other similar turn spec motors made me scratch my head.

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