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How the rest of the hobby views "us"

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Most of my friends (and kids) I know think of Tamiya RCs as toy-grade and entry-level, or as a static model brand. Of course aside from the TRF car line (which is dead and most have never heard of). When I build Tamiya cars they think I’m an old geek, a hermit in a cave, and enjoy static model toys—and interestingly none of these applies to me. But that's only the perception when I start building them. When I run my old Yokomos or Kyosho on-road car, the perception is race related.

When I start looking into an RC brand (or any brand at all) I have a habit of reading their about section or mission statement and that’s probably telling as to what kind of audience gravitate toward a brand and products. And what others think of other enthusiasts. Probably outside of Japan, Tamiya RCs are just misunderstood. This is Tamiya’s general mission (from their website) and I’m sure it trickles down to their RCs:

“When it comes right down to it, Tamiya's main goal is to offer the world the most rewarding modeling experience possible. Grasping the various parts, assembling, and finally painting a finely crafted model is truly a special and rare experience in today's modern world. Tamiya feels that this hands-on experience is invaluable. So whether it's our careful attention to quality, or our commitment to ease-of-assembly, we are always striving to create truly fulfilling ways to spend one's time.”

And compared to…

Traxxas:
Traxxas has been engineering and building the world’s fastest and most innovative Ready-To-Race radio-controlled performance machines since 1986. Traxxas models are fully assembled with powerful, feature-rich radio systems and are Ready-To-Drive in just minutes, including the 100mph Traxxas XO-1 supercar. Traxxas performance, durability, and world-class customer support all come together to deliver an award-winning radio-controlled experience that’s designed to last for years of fun.


Arrma:
ARRMA is a brand that defines high-speed super-tough RC action. With a wide range of exciting RC vehicles that provide the perfect opportunity for you to enjoy dirt-blasting RC driving, learn new skills, and inspire others to share your passion for the pulse racing world of ARRMA RC, your journey starts here. Whether you are new to the hobby of Radio Control, or a seasoned RC car or truck fan, ARRMA can offer you exactly what you need to take on new challenges, and set yourself the goal of becoming an ARRMA RC king. Designed from the ground-up by experts who understand the importance of strength, speed, and incredible value, ARRMA RC vehicles are ‘Designed to be Fast, Designed to be Tough’. Spanning a range of high-quality and stylish RC Trucks, RC Buggies, and powerful all-terrain RC Cars, ARRMA will put you straight into the action, with Ready-to-Run packages that allow you to hit the dirt now.
If you are searching for the ultimate RC experience that will transform the way you choose to have fun, welcome to the world of ARRMA RC.

Kyosho:
"Serious about having fun." "Be true to your dreams." We want to show society the value of enjoying life through the model hobby. Since its foundation, Kyosho has lived by this philosophy. And, there is no end to the pursuit of this goal. From each generation to the next, our unceasing search for ways people can have fun leads to continuous idea creation that takes shape in the form of truly innovative products. Make products that inspire people through surprise and discovery. Cultivate an organization that combines imagination with the technological capability to successfully transform ideas into exceptional products. 

Axial:
Axial is where RC adventures begin! With an Axial radio control rig, you’re sure to have the most exciting and enjoyable off-road RC adventures possible — whether you’re exploring trails while hiking with friends and family or joining other RC rock crawling fans for a club outing or radio control crawling event.

And Yokomo focuses on drfit, on-road, and buggy competition; Team Associated and Schumacher on race, and so on. 

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1 hour ago, ad456 said:

@Nikko85 and every 6 months there’s a change colour of bacon box that’s no different other than the colour yet sold as a completely new product yet it’s just the same old bacon, or should I say lipstick on a pig?

Lol And then they call it the "Black Edition" wait...

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  • Question: Are Tamiya kits overpriced, especially for 30+ year-old designs?

                             Answer: Yes

  • Question: Does the company try to squeeze every penny out of hobbyists by offering industry standard parts as optional hop-ups?

                            Answer: Yes

  • Question: Does Tamiya cater mainly to a niche market consisting of us older hobbyists who still enjoy the build?

                          Answer: Yes

  • Question: Would a modern Tamiya hold up to the ridiculous thrashing YouTubers put Aarma and Traxxas kits through?

                         Answer: Never

Nostalgia aside, what really makes Tamiya's stick out?  If you ask me what sets them apart from everything else currently on the market is personality. Think about it, Tamiya kits (old and new) have their own personality. From the art on the kit box, to the build, to the driving experience, they are unlike anything else out there. Some kits are slow lumbering and some handle so poorly they make you laugh out loud, but they all have that Tamiya "IT factor" that set them apart.

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9 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

But back to Tamiya, he sees them as terrible value toys and hates building them. Interestingly, he is a modeller, building Gundam, etc... After a year of Tamiya and it's endless expensive hopups, I can kind of see his point. I had since acquired a number of similar priced kits from other brands that offer so much more OOB. Still, I will continue buying Tamiya as I still like them, but will seek alternatives when possible. For example, I need a TC chassis for a body that I have, but I just cannot pull the trigger on a TT-02 as it is just so basic and poor value. I got a 3R S64 instead for less money but tons of what will be considered hopups on a TT-02.

If I may ask, which Tamiya kits has your friend tried out? I've found that with any RC you'll run into burn out after throwing too much at it, its why I keep my stuff simple.

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I'd have more fun screwing up the decals of my TT-02 Quattro than I would pulling an obnoxious looking, fully built, 600mph RTR out of the box.

That's just me, though.

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Wow, for a few posts there was real danger of this becoming a cooking thread.

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I don't see any need to defend Tamiya.  If people don't like it then nobody is forcing them to buy it.  I don't mind discussing things, and I have my own criticisms of Tamiya, but when it's some kind of polarized "them" versus "us" it just isn't worth getting into it.

Every brand has it's faults or downsides.  A lot of other brands I can't look at without wondering why their bodies look so awful even when they cost a small fortune.

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5 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

If I may ask, which Tamiya kits has your friend tried out? I've found that with any RC you'll run into burn out after throwing too much at it, its why I keep my stuff simple.

I am not sure as he quit RC about a decade before I (re)started, and we live in different countries and continents so it is not something I get updates on regularly. I do know for sure he had a TT drift car with one way diff, that's all I knew about his Tamiya. When I did my first RC about 10 years ago, I do recall him showing me his Kyosho buggy, and he did talk about TRF. 

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3 hours ago, Pablo68 said:

Wow, for a few posts there was real danger of this becoming a cooking thread.

I think we need some wine to go with it!! 🍾🤔

Tamiya , the bottle is a work of art, looks good just sat on the shelf. The wine hasn't changed for 30yrs, but the tamiya drinker still enjoys to just look at it, and to sip it every so often, remembering years gone by, knowing they have a plethora of 'hop up' glasses to drink it from.

RTR , the bottle is a bland and awkward size, won't fit in the fridge shelf, next to the milk, not much idea what quality the wine is inside, but , the bottles get opened regularly with zero care, as they joke, laugh and dance on tables with their friends.

 

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Without tamiya I definitely wouldn't be were I am with my hobby now! my first rc was a tamiya like many of us and even back then the Ford ranger I got for Christmas was badly floored although quite quick it was unstable and the batteries didn't last very long and no quick charger so it was 5 minutes run time at best then 12 hours charge! But did that put me off the truck and tamiya?........absolutely not and my affection for the brand is still as strong! yes I have other brands and they are clearly better and I have been to club meetings and hobby shops over the decades and constantly hearing chats about tamiya and the pit falls of the products they produce but conversation always ends up reminiscing about the first tamiya they had and that immortal phrase that finishes the conversation "those were the days" I'm hopefully going to pick up my blockhead motors hotshot 2 this week which has had its fair share of criticism but I bet it's still going to be popular! This is a light hearted pastime and I've never worried what other people think of it!

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11 hours ago, Mechanic AH said:

Most of my friends (and kids) I know think of Tamiya RCs as toy-grade and entry-level, or as a static model brand. Of course aside from the TRF car line

... And Tamiya's midrange models.TA/TB/TC onroad series, M07/08, XV series are all excellent quality models with good value and performance. Although it used to be better when they also included DB and DN buggies, which were basically stripped down TRF models.

It seems that even Tamiya enthusiast don't know about these models - from various surprused comments that Tamiya ever released a model with ball bearings and fibre reinforced palstic *gasp*.

Personally I think that if this part of their bussines was more advertised, they would be less viewed as a toy car company... Unfortunately, even their distributors don't help - here in CZ, the distributor doesn't even sell these kits...

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I find this thread interesting.

As a newcomer (returner) I was always going to go Tamiya, albeit I didn't particularly want a re-release. So there's some nostalgia in there but it's not wholly nostalgia led. When I subsequently wanted to buy a crawler I didn't go Tamiya, but I did insist on a kit build. I may or may not get a re-release or an old model at some point, but it's not my primary driver. 

But for me I am almost certainly only going to buy kits or projects. Because building and tinkering is what it's all about. 

There's also something in the idea that their models have some "personality" or some such, which is lacking in RTR. 

And there's people. This place. I wouldn't be into RC beyond a kit or two with my son if it wasn't for all this discussion, help, support, humour etc. And that all goes hand in hand with the other somewhat nebulous benefits of Tamiya. And perhaps also with any perception that "we" are a particular brand of enthuast and perhaps have slightly different priorities. 

I like better performance but I'm not obsessed about it, and perhaps I like being able to choose/build it in rather than it having it off the shelf. My DT-03 is a joy to me precisely because it's an entry level kit that's known to be weak and I've made mine tough and better. 

39 minutes ago, Honza said:

... And Tamiya's midrange models.TA/TB/TC onroad series, M07/08, XV series are all excellent quality models with good value and performance. 

And then there's this. How much performance do I value? Up to XV and M08 I value it, but I might not value pushing it much further, especially not at the expense of either some body quality or some sense of it being mine because I built it. There's always a trade off and everything has its place, I think. Even the Falcon (ducks!). 

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1 hour ago, moffman said:

This is a light hearted pastime and I've never worried what other people think of it!

This is pretty much where I'm at. I don't really care what anyone else thinks of 'us', any more than I have an opinion on 'them'

'Their' angle on their hobby is just as valid as mine, so let 'em have at it. I'm sure that all of these different approaches to the hobby enable the whole category to continue to exist, like a kind of ecosystem. Or geekosystem. I imagine the RTR stuff definitely helps our dwindling local hobby stores to stay in business, which can only be a good thing.

Personally, I'm not into the generic category of 'radio control cars'. I got back into this due to nostalgia, driven by a re:re of the Bigwig I couldn't have in my youth

That opened the door to a vast range of cars, chassis variants, parts, hop ups, wheels and body sets that I had no idea existed and which allows for almost infinite levels of personalisation, craftsmanship, learning, improvement and creativity. Some get driven, some just get stared at. Either way, I get a whole load of joy out if it, all of which is provided by Tamiya

I couldn't care less that most entry level kits don't come with bearings, steel pinions or CVAs; no-one forces me to spend my money on Tamiya, that's my choice. If I build something and it doesn't engage me or bring me joy (Monster Beetle, M06) I just sell it and move on to something that does. Life's too short for howling at the moon about toy cars. 

So I don't follow RC Kicks and haven't joined RC Tech, RC Universe or any other RC Hot Takes forum because I'm just not interested in the generic category, other RC brands or lifestyles. Not knocking them, I'm sure they're fascinating places for people who have that broader / deeper category interest and the basis to make comparisons.

But me, I'm just into the joy offered by Tamiya*. Which is why I joined Tamiyaclub :)

*and the Kyosho Turbo Optima, which is a beautifully engineered and gorgeous looking thing!

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39 minutes ago, Juhunio said:

This is pretty much where I'm at. I don't really care what anyone else thinks of 'us', any more than I have an opinion on 'them'

'Their' angle on their hobby is just as valid as mine, so let 'em have at it. I'm sure that all of these different approaches to the hobby enable the whole category to continue to exist, like a kind of ecosystem. Or geekosystem. I imagine the RTR stuff definitely helps our dwindling local hobby stores to stay in business, which can only be a good thing.

Personally, I'm not into the generic category of 'radio control cars'. I got back into this due to nostalgia, driven by a re:re of the Bigwig I couldn't have in my youth

That opened the door to a vast range of cars, chassis variants, parts, hop ups, wheels and body sets that I had no idea existed and which allows for almost infinite levels of personalisation, craftsmanship, learning, improvement and creativity. Some get driven, some just get stared at. Either way, I get a whole load of joy out if it, all of which is provided by Tamiya

I couldn't care less that most entry level kits don't come with bearings, steel pinions or CVAs; no-one forces me to spend my money on Tamiya, that's my choice. If I build something and it doesn't engage me or bring me joy (Monster Beetle, M06) I just sell it and move on to something that does. Life's too short for howling at the moon about toy cars. 

So I don't follow RC Kicks and haven't joined RC Tech, RC Universe or any other RC Hot Takes forum because I'm just not interested in the generic category, other RC brands or lifestyles. Not knocking them, I'm sure they're fascinating places for people who have that broader / deeper category interest and the basis to make comparisons.

But me, I'm just into the joy offered by Tamiya*. Which is why I joined Tamiyaclub :)

*and the Kyosho Turbo Optima, which is a beautifully engineered and gorgeous looking thing!

I must admit I do follow a lot of the rc channels because I like to listen to other opinions and views but like you brilliantly said I have no opinion on their views I just like rc as a whole and my chosen part in that is rc cars and at the top of that tree for me is tamiya with all its quirkiness and I've always kept it light hearted which in my head keeps it more enjoyable as the years go on:)

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On 2/18/2023 at 5:29 PM, speedy_w_beans said:

A Reddit thread on this subject...

"If you are spending close to the $300 mark or higher on a Tamiya kit, you're better off with something like the Arrma Typhon or Senton. It will be far more durable than any Tamiya kit."

"Tamiya’s good for retro/nostalgia. They’re not generally competitive when it comes to actual performance or innovation, but if you like old-school RC it’s hard to beat Tamiya."

"Tamiya vehicles are more like expensive model kits with electronics, the plastic feels more more brittle than other manufactures and they will break far more easily and often. They do not make for good bashers or racers. They are fun to build, but the overall quality isn't near as good and I think they are overpriced."

"i was out of the scene for a bit, then my 4 year old and my buddy wanted to get into it, so i bought a tamiya 2wd buggy. 2 weeks later i bought something else. i put a 2500kv brushless in it and it was fun, but not remotely competitive to be fast or strong enough to take a bigger motor or even do a decent jump properly. I got a 2wd rustler and it's night and day better. i took the buggy out last week just to shake the dust off and it broke. tamiya discontinued it recently or else parts are impossible to find. just skip the tamiya step is my opinion."

"Tamiya is more for the model train/plastic model building types imo. Tamiya has been around forever and jas great stuff for a certain person. Traxxas, Aarma is probably where you want to be. Problem I (and many will agree) have with both brands is the proprietary batteries and charger."

"Stock Tamiya kits are great but I'd say they have a durability and performance threshold. If you wish to go faster than 25mph or take jumps/do vertical falls greater than 5 feet, you will need to upgrade parts."

They're not wrong. I like Tamiya because they look sort of like 1:1 buggies and not truggies designed by WWE enthusiasts for bros, but I am not nostalgic. 

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Basically unhappy people talk smack about other people's interests.  That is definitely not where we want to be as it is just sad.

Japan is a well self contained entertaining country.. they don't really care about entertaining the outside world in general; it's really folks outside of Japan that is constantly trying to pull the culture outside.  Japan appreciates having an outside audience, but will never match their integrity to fulfill domestic interests for outsiders. 

Not trying to make non-Japan folks feel inferior, but it's just the way it is in general.  B)

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7 hours ago, Willy iine said:

Basically unhappy people talk smack about other people's interests.  That is definitely not where we want to be as it is just sad.

Japan is a well self contained entertaining country.. they don't really care about entertaining the outside world in general; it's really folks outside of Japan that is constantly trying to pull the culture outside.  Japan appreciates having an outside audience, but will never match their integrity to fulfill domestic interests for outsiders. 

Not trying to make non-Japan folks feel inferior, but it's just the way it is in general.  B)

Does Tamiya fulfill domestic interests though? With other manufacturers now offering more capable vehicles and scale appearance getting better and better (and more of them being released in kit version) is the Japanese market still shackled to Tamiya's quirky offerings?

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I'm more worried about how the general public perceives me, in that I simply don't want to be a bother. They can think of me as a kid/geek if they want.

Anytime that I find myself dwelling on a certain company, sub-group, model, etc. I grab my Flysky and whatever RC I have at hand and drive, or I resume placing stickers. Lifes too short to prevent yourself from enjoying your toys.

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1 hour ago, Kowalski86 said:

I'm more worried about how the general public perceives me, in that I simply don't want to be a bother. They can think of me as a kid/geek if they want.

Anytime that I find myself dwelling on a certain company, sub-group, model, etc. I grab my Flysky and whatever RC I have at hand and drive, or I resume placing stickers. Lifes too short to prevent yourself from enjoying your toys.

Yes. Do enjoy what makes you happy. :) As time goes on, I try to practice not giving (a bad word) which really helps focus on what I enjoy rather than what others think.

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3 hours ago, Sayer said:

Does Tamiya fulfill domestic interests though? With other manufacturers now offering more capable vehicles and scale appearance getting better and better (and more of them being released in kit version) is the Japanese market still shackled to Tamiya's quirky offerings?

Tamiya has a strong presence in Japan with its own stores, frequent participation at major shows, hosting its own races, etc etc and a wide product portfolio (non-RC included).  I think the domestic Japan public just chooses what they want from Tamiya as we do..no one is stopping the public from trying other brands.  Tamiya isn't going anywhere any time soon, I don't think.  

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Why can't people be allowed to buy what they want to buy, build what they want to build, drive whatever they want to drive and admire what they want on the shelf.  So long as people are enjoying their hobby and not hurting anyone else?

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I do like a thread like this, it always makes me take time to question my attitudes to things, both in the hobby and then it usually bleeds out to other aspects life and usually I find that I’m a bit more off from where I want to be than I realised.

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On 2/19/2023 at 10:19 PM, Mechanic AH said:

Most of my friends (and kids) I know think of Tamiya RCs as toy-grade and entry-level, or as a static model brand. Of course aside from the TRF car line (which is dead and most have never heard of). When I build Tamiya cars they think I’m an old geek, a hermit in a cave, and enjoy static model toys—and interestingly none of these applies to me. But that's only the perception when I start building them. When I run my old Yokomos or Kyosho on-road car, the perception is race related.

When I start looking into an RC brand (or any brand at all) I have a habit of reading their about section or mission statement and that’s probably telling as to what kind of audience gravitate toward a brand and products. And what others think of other enthusiasts. Probably outside of Japan, Tamiya RCs are just misunderstood. This is Tamiya’s general mission (from their website) and I’m sure it trickles down to their RCs:

“When it comes right down to it, Tamiya's main goal is to offer the world the most rewarding modeling experience possible. Grasping the various parts, assembling, and finally painting a finely crafted model is truly a special and rare experience in today's modern world. Tamiya feels that this hands-on experience is invaluable. So whether it's our careful attention to quality, or our commitment to ease-of-assembly, we are always striving to create truly fulfilling ways to spend one's time.”

And compared to…

Traxxas:
Traxxas has been engineering and building the world’s fastest and most innovative Ready-To-Race radio-controlled performance machines since 1986. Traxxas models are fully assembled with powerful, feature-rich radio systems and are Ready-To-Drive in just minutes, including the 100mph Traxxas XO-1 supercar. Traxxas performance, durability, and world-class customer support all come together to deliver an award-winning radio-controlled experience that’s designed to last for years of fun.


Arrma:
ARRMA is a brand that defines high-speed super-tough RC action. With a wide range of exciting RC vehicles that provide the perfect opportunity for you to enjoy dirt-blasting RC driving, learn new skills, and inspire others to share your passion for the pulse racing world of ARRMA RC, your journey starts here. Whether you are new to the hobby of Radio Control, or a seasoned RC car or truck fan, ARRMA can offer you exactly what you need to take on new challenges, and set yourself the goal of becoming an ARRMA RC king. Designed from the ground-up by experts who understand the importance of strength, speed, and incredible value, ARRMA RC vehicles are ‘Designed to be Fast, Designed to be Tough’. Spanning a range of high-quality and stylish RC Trucks, RC Buggies, and powerful all-terrain RC Cars, ARRMA will put you straight into the action, with Ready-to-Run packages that allow you to hit the dirt now.
If you are searching for the ultimate RC experience that will transform the way you choose to have fun, welcome to the world of ARRMA RC.

Kyosho:
"Serious about having fun." "Be true to your dreams." We want to show society the value of enjoying life through the model hobby. Since its foundation, Kyosho has lived by this philosophy. And, there is no end to the pursuit of this goal. From each generation to the next, our unceasing search for ways people can have fun leads to continuous idea creation that takes shape in the form of truly innovative products. Make products that inspire people through surprise and discovery. Cultivate an organization that combines imagination with the technological capability to successfully transform ideas into exceptional products. 

Axial:
Axial is where RC adventures begin! With an Axial radio control rig, you’re sure to have the most exciting and enjoyable off-road RC adventures possible — whether you’re exploring trails while hiking with friends and family or joining other RC rock crawling fans for a club outing or radio control crawling event.

And Yokomo focuses on drfit, on-road, and buggy competition; Team Associated and Schumacher on race, and so on. 

What’s possibly being missed here are 3 things:

1) The American brands are very speed/race focussed and the language they use reflects both that and their home market (bigger is better, more is more, AMERICA!).

2) The Japanese brands seem to push the value/inherent goodness of modelling/crafting which is reflective of their culture.

3) The way a kit is designed, made and supplied will be entirely dependent on how the end user will interact with it. An RTR is a cheaper thing to produce than a kit to be built.

With all that said, there are definitely kit brands which shade Tamiya for quality vs price at the performance end of the spectrum. I hear great things about the new Ruddog Iris TC, XRAY make beautiful high performance kits, Mugen the same & there are more besides, but are any of those brands as notable across the hobby as Tamiya? I’d argue not.

Luke

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21 hours ago, ad456 said:

I do like a thread like this, it always makes me take time to question my attitudes to things, both in the hobby and then it usually bleeds out to other aspects life and usually I find that I’m a bit more off from where I want to be than I realised.

Lovely attitude, I very much identify with this 

In a loosely connected development, today I read this great article by Greg James

I love Greg. Not because he presents the Radio 1 breakfast show (I’m a 6 Music guy), but because of Tailenders, his loosely cricket-based podcast which, as a cricket badger, I completely devoured during lockdown and beyond 

His is a world of inclusive positivity, generosity of spirit and all-are-welcome humour and warmth, all reflected in the article. I thought his central premise about the pointlessness of tribalism and negativity, compared to the infinite potential of inclusivity, encouragement and positivity chimed with some of the themes raised in this thread

The key points being:

1. We open up our passions to others by being positive and light about them 

2. “this is supposed to be fun, lads!”

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For me; the joy is in the build.

I have terrible hand-eye co-ordination, which makes me a pretty terrible RC "Driver". I tried my hand at RC Drifting in my youth and the lower speeds helped, but I was still a bit rubbish (best I ever managed was an absolute fluke of a 2nd place).

I can build my Tamiya how I like, with aftermarket parts, genuine Hop-Ups (£££) or just box-stock. Likewise, you can build an entire car out of parts (a "bitsa" build, @Juhunio knows...) and even combine parts with chassis' they were never intended for. 

I look at other brands and there isn't that cross-compatibility. I can (and will) build a TL-01 with all the hop-ups in the next few weeks and fit it with period-correct dampers, electronics and so-on. 

Whilst those RTR Kyosho and MST cars look fantastic, they're definitely a product for the younger 'must have it now' generation and will ultimately be thrown away rather than treasured. That ability to maintain them will be taken away when the support from the manufacturer ends, they have maybe 5-6 years, at best. 

Tamiya know their market and exactly how to extract money from them - and I'm grateful for it!

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