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How the rest of the hobby views "us"

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@one_hit Thanks! and nice collection you got there!  B)

I am glad many folks are excited about the new buggies and cars Tamiya is releasing this year to keep the industry and brand alive.

Personally I too don't feel for modern Tamiya cars and only gravitate towards their vintage cars for their quirkiness.  I got the 420X for the sake of integrity to represent the touring car category in my pretend RC shop... I was hoping to get a TRF class F1 car too, but could not find one.. besides the F104 Pro2 which I will build using dual CF deck to represent the category to some extent.  I will also be building the XV02-Pro this year to represent rally class. 

I'm not really excited about the Genova or the new Kyosho RWD buggy either.   They're too casual not that I am racing or anything,  but I want cars that are exclusive and special if building a kit (make it expensive and run CF, titanium, aluminum parts, something with wow  factor out of the box).  Otherwise, adding final touches to RTR's will do just fine for me.  I am sitting next to my Kyosho Hakosuka GT-R as I type.. I don't care it was a cheap RTR, I love the way it looks and how it drives after some fine tuning I did to make it mine.  :wub:   

IMG_2023-2-19-143322.jpg.40d24ff5b97310c02ec2de895dcaaa42.jpg

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5 minutes ago, OldSchoolRC1 said:

(and then complaining it is too fragile after hitting a telephone pole at 60 and shattering)

I too have found some of the complaints very "All I did was flog it with a golf club for only 15min and it broke! Trash!"

 

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10 hours ago, one_hit said:

Just because it’s RTR, doesn’t mean it’s not hobby-grade. On the contrary, most Tamiyas are closer to being “toy-grade” compared to RTRs, for example Tamiyas with pogo stick friction shocks, screws for steering arm cranks, non-adjustable gearing, fixed suspension and steering arms. And I will argue that the most important part of this hobby is the actual driving itself, which RTRs do offer and what almost all RTR buyers do with their vehicles. There’s less shelf queens, hoarders and flippers, just guys who love to run RC cars. Nothing wrong if you enjoy building kits, but there’s nothing wrong with buying RTR either. I hope you guys can get rid of this elitist attitude. 

If I may jump in here,
With RTR you don't build it per se, but you most certainly will be maintaining and repairing it, which requires a bit of assembly and disassembly. You might also do things like change diff or shock oils, tyres etc.

That's close enough for me to consider them hobby grade. Not all toy grade cars are bad either. I have a little Kei car and a little Kei truck and my niece and nephews have a blast with them. I also have fun running them in front of my youngest nephew (one and a half) while he chases after them.

It might be heresy but I have a bit of everything and think they are all good in their way. The more people into the hobby the better I think.

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All right: a clarification, now that I'm at a real keyboard.

It's about usage, not about the product itself. Imagine you spent hours preparing a home-cooked meal, only to have someone utterly dismiss it because they bought a "better" one in the frozen foods section for cheaper. That's fine, whatever; they're wrong, but you can let it slide. But then they try to claim that taking that dinner out of the box and putting it in the oven counts as "cooking," the same as what you did. Aren't you going to get a little rankled by that?

If you enjoy RTR models, great. More power to you. If you use them as a starting point and modify them from there, even better. I've done that too, though it's usually just the running gear and electronics that end up in the final build. It can be a cheap and easy way of getting a bunch of parts that you know work together all in one box. But trying to compare running an RTR as-is and building a kit - or worse, scratchbuilding or component-building - as being the same thing isn't comparing apples and oranges; it's comapring apples and apple-flavored candy. If you like candy, that's great, but don't pretend it's good for you.

Besides, you've won. Hobby shops, if they exist at all, are full of RTR models and bolt-on shiny blue bits for them, and little else. The public perception of "RC cars" is the flat-brimmed doofus jumping his Slash (or whatever) over his buddy's WRX. And trust me - it's not a good perception. It's the reason I generally keep quiet about my hobby until I get to know someone: I don't want to explain to someone I just met that, no, I don't mean those things you see on Amazon. I mean a hand-built aluminum Land Rover based on something out of a children's book. I mean a thirty-five-year-old relic pulled from someone's attic that I painstakingly rebuilt, reusing more than 95% of the original parts. I mean a Jeep made from an old whiskey decanter (my next project). And I don't even mind that RTRs have won. I'm off into realms unknown, trying to make RC parts out of found materials, seeking out obscure vehicles and wondering what it would take to make an RC model of them. It stings to pass a hobby shop and realize there's nothing in there I could possibly want or need except paint, tools, and maybe wheels/tires, but that's how it is. So I've moved beyond it.

Is that elitist? Probably. Do I care? No. The original question was about how the basher crowd views Tamiya products and their adherents. And my best, most truthful answer, is: I don't care, because we're not even doing the same thing. But it irritates me to be lumped in with them.

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2 hours ago, Willy iine said:

I guess for me, I did not particularly enjoy building the M06 recently.  It was a horrible fitment* with the Beetle body, not to forget the kit 1060 ESC motor leads were much too short to reach the motor properly so soldered new leads.  I mean to me this is no big deal as I do it all the time, but what if it was a novice with no soldering experience?  They could be heartbroken not being able to finish the car per instructions.

*I don't know if I mis-assembled, but I cross-checked the instructions multiple times for the front suspension and each check it appeared I assembled correctly, but the car had too much positive camber and fitment to body was horrible.  I didn't care at this point to waste more time on an entry level car and ended up removing a few pieces and cutting the upper arm cups to allow much needed negative camber, also applied a lot more negative camber on the rear to dial in the rear stability vs instructions.  Car drives very well and looks fantastic.

I do enjoy how it sits in my pretend RC shop.  :wub:     I will note one cannot achieve this drivable stance in stock form nor by following instructions.

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When I got my M06 Beetle (used) I had to trim a few tiny parts myself, I think the shell was warped slightly.

I have mixed thoughts on the M06 myself, but I'd end up derailing the thread if I went on about all of the design issues I've found with mine.

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Ok, and now a comment addressing the OP,

I have no idea how others in the hobby view people like us who I assume are into Tamiya. At a guess I'd say they think we are slightly odd.

Having said that I'd guess that a fair few people who are into RC have at least tried a Tamiya car/truck/whatever. With my own collection, Tamiya outnumbers all the other cars I have by brand put together.....(almost I think. I have about 50 cars, I think 24~25 are Tamiya).

Why do I like Tamiya so much? You know I'm not sure. Nostalgia is part of it, their quirky approach to their cars/design, that I like assembling the kits, even though a few of my Tamiya cars are restoed basket cases.
There is definitely a bit of brand loyalty thrown in, which is something very prevalent in Japan, which obviously is where Tamiya are from/based, and they really do cater for that market ahead of all others.

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No problem with RTR here, but I think I'm good for building 1 of 1 vehicles out of bits. Sometimes you just want to drive something without screaming at your tools.

I would also argue, that in my experience, until that flat brimmed cohort started backflipping their cars over houses for impressions, john and Jane Q public would just think you were some sort of emotionally stunted child playing with toys at the level of the trucks in my first pic. I promise you they do not know the difference. The amount of New Bright ads I've been sent because "You like RC cars right?"

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Ok I misunderstood the original post and replied incorrectly. The result of trying to read at 3am.

I have a ex RC friend that not only hates Tamiya so much that he refused to take to me about anything Tamiya. He is also such a lipo and brushless fan boy that he said I should quit RC since it is almost illegal for me to get lipo posted to where I am at, meaning it is very difficult for me to get lipos.

But back to Tamiya, he sees them as terrible value toys and hates building them. Interestingly, he is a modeller, building Gundam, etc... After a year of Tamiya and it's endless expensive hopups, I can kind of see his point. I had since acquired a number of similar priced kits from other brands that offer so much more OOB. Still, I will continue buying Tamiya as I still like them, but will seek alternatives when possible. For example, I need a TC chassis for a body that I have, but I just cannot pull the trigger on a TT-02 as it is just so basic and poor value. I got a 3R S64 instead for less money but tons of what will be considered hopups on a TT-02.

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33 minutes ago, markbt73 said:

All right: a clarification, now that I'm at a real keyboard.

It's about usage, not about the product itself. Imagine you spent hours preparing a home-cooked meal, only to have someone utterly dismiss it because they bought a "better" one in the frozen foods section for cheaper. That's fine, whatever; they're wrong, but you can let it slide. But then they try to claim that taking that dinner out of the box and putting it in the oven counts as "cooking," the same as what you did. Aren't you going to get a little rankled by that?

If you enjoy RTR models, great. More power to you. If you use them as a starting point and modify them from there, even better. I've done that too, though it's usually just the running gear and electronics that end up in the final build. It can be a cheap and easy way of getting a bunch of parts that you know work together all in one box. But trying to compare running an RTR as-is and building a kit - or worse, scratchbuilding or component-building - as being the same thing isn't comparing apples and oranges; it's comapring apples and apple-flavored candy. If you like candy, that's great, but don't pretend it's good for you.

Besides, you've won. Hobby shops, if they exist at all, are full of RTR models and bolt-on shiny blue bits for them, and little else. The public perception of "RC cars" is the flat-brimmed doofus jumping his Slash (or whatever) over his buddy's WRX. And trust me - it's not a good perception. It's the reason I generally keep quiet about my hobby until I get to know someone: I don't want to explain to someone I just met that, no, I don't mean those things you see on Amazon. I mean a hand-built aluminum Land Rover based on something out of a children's book. I mean a thirty-five-year-old relic pulled from someone's attic that I painstakingly rebuilt, reusing more than 95% of the original parts. I mean a Jeep made from an old whiskey decanter (my next project). And I don't even mind that RTRs have won. I'm off into realms unknown, trying to make RC parts out of found materials, seeking out obscure vehicles and wondering what it would take to make an RC model of them. It stings to pass a hobby shop and realize there's nothing in there I could possibly want or need except paint, tools, and maybe wheels/tires, but that's how it is. So I've moved beyond it.

Is that elitist? Probably. Do I care? No. The original question was about how the basher crowd views Tamiya products and their adherents. And my best, most truthful answer, is: I don't care, because we're not even doing the same thing. But it irritates me to be lumped in with them.


Your first analogy about RC being equivalent to cooking is just wrong. I’d say building a cheap Tamiya kit is like cooking fried chicken. You take a whole chicken from the freezer, defrost it and cook it, while the RTR is like KFC or Popeyes chicken that you can buy anytime. Sure you cooked it yourself, but it tastes nowhere near as good as the fast food ones. 
 

Good for you for restoring vintage models and making models from scrap. But if everybody in this hobby did that and only that, then this hobby would die a sudden, painful death. Nobody would be buying new kits, so hobby stores would close down, RC manufacturers would become bankrupt as well. So instead of bashing RTR buyers, just be thankful because they’re the reason the hobby stores where you buy your tools, paints and wheels/tires from are still open. 

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14 hours ago, markbt73 said:

Opening boxes isn't much of a hobby.

Ironically if you were to never open the boxes and sit on a bunch of NIB items, to some people that would be the zenith of the hobby.

7 hours ago, Silver-Can said:

At the end of the day we're all driving toy cars so it seems a bit daft to me to get all upperty about what is the 'right' way to do it. 

Exactly. I saw a child in the playpark today pushing a toy monster truck around and going vroom vroom; that's all were are doing really, just kids playing with toys. Heck some of us even put special machines in our cars to go vroom vroom for us because we are too old to drive and go vroom at the same time.

 Gatekeeping what you have to do to make it a hobby as opposed to playing or driving toy cars to me is a little absurd. They are all toys, and as long is it makes you happy, then go for it.

To answer the question, how do people view us? Probably as middle aged, boring, mildly pretentious and dull, getting super excited about a £300 vintage car that their newer car is better than in every measurable way.  They probably view us in the way we might view people who collect stamps or vintage teapots.

I love my Tamiya, but I'm not going to lie, there are probably better cars out there for the cash, but there's a certain quirkiness and challenge to get a Tamiya perform that I really like. I could just buy a TRX-4, but getting an MF01x to crawl is half the fun; buying something better would give me less, as for me the fun is in modifying.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, one_hit said:


Your first analogy about RC being equivalent to cooking is just wrong. I’d say building a cheap Tamiya kit is like cooking fried chicken. You take a whole chicken from the freezer, defrost it and cook it, while the RTR is like KFC or Popeyes chicken that you can buy anytime. Sure you cooked it yourself, but it tastes nowhere near as good as the fast food ones. 
 

Good for you for restoring vintage models and making models from scrap. But if everybody in this hobby did that and only that, then this hobby would die a sudden, painful death. Nobody would be buying new kits, so hobby stores would close down, RC manufacturers would become bankrupt as well. So instead of bashing RTR buyers, just be thankful because they’re the reason the hobby stores where you buy your tools, paints and wheels/tires from are still open. 

I agree with all your other points, but will have to disagree on the fried chicken part as someone who has lived in the southern US their entire life, KFC and popeye's can't hold a candle to some properly done home-cooked fried chicken, although the Popeye's chicken sandwich is definitly worth the hype.

Back on topic, as someone in their early 20's who has owned many vintage and modern Tamiya kits, personally I'd say that I view most of the ohter members on here as being fairly similar to myself, but some of the attitudes here towards modern or non-Tamiya R/C's are what keep me from being more of an active poster on here, and this is easily the most welcoming and friendly R/C community in my opinion, so a little more open-mindedness would go a long way. Some of the posts in this thread are pretty unbelivable to me that some people actually think like that, they are all toys at the end of the day, I can't strap myself inside my Grasshopper and drive it to school or the grocery store, so why should it matter what someone chooses to buy or how they use it, it's all just for fun in the end. Whether that's from scratchbuilding a car from metal uphill both ways, jumping a 12S powered X-Maxx through a flaming hoop over your house, racing at the IFMAR worlds, or just driving your Tyrrell P34 in a college parking lot between classes trying not to get in anyone's way or ran over by a brodozer (me every Friday). I'll probably end up making a whole video on this topic at some point, as I feel that that nobody is making more reflective content on the R/C hobby on youtube, and I really like watching those types of videos for the other hobbies I'm interested in.

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2 minutes ago, Nikko85 said:

I love my Tamiya, but I'm not going to lie, there are probably better cars out there for the cash, but there's a certain quirkiness and challenge to get a Tamiya perform that I really like. I could just buy a TRX-4, but getting an MF01x to crawl is half the fun; buying something better would give me less, as for me the fun is in modifying.

 

Hit the nail on the head right here, I could have (and probably should've) bought an Associated B6.4 or TLR 22 5.0, but instead got a TD-2 because of the interesting design and challege of making it competitive, and I'll be swapping axles on a CC-02 for my next build, even though just getting an Axial kit would be the easier solition, but I've got to be different, it's just my nature at this point. 

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18 minutes ago, Bash said:

Hit the nail on the head right here, I could have (and probably should've) bought an Associated B6.4 or TLR 22 5.0, but instead got a TD-2 because of the interesting design and challege of making it competitive, and I'll be swapping axles on a CC-02 for my next build, even though just getting an Axial kit would be the easier solition, but I've got to be different, it's just my nature at this point. 

Yup. That second pic in my last post is an rc4wd swb trail finder that's gonna have the rubbish axles swapped for jugg 2 axles ( once I source internals) and possibly a body spliced together out of 2 different versions of Blackfoot if I don't just use the proline on it now. Way easier ways to get a scale looking monster truck but 🤷🏾‍♂️

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We're probably viewed as slightly eccentric middle -> old age geezers who like vintage old R/C cars.

Bit like the person that would rather spend £1.5million restoring a P51 mustang than buy a £500,000 private jet that has a higher top speed, better climb rate, and is more comfortable

 

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19 minutes ago, MadInventor said:

Bit like the person that would rather spend £1.5million restoring a P51 mustang than buy a £500,000 private jet that has a higher top speed, better climb rate, and is more comfortable

The private jet cannot fly inverted nor pull +6g without ripping its wings off.

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2 hours ago, one_hit said:

Your first analogy about RC being equivalent to cooking is just wrong. I’d say building a cheap Tamiya kit is like cooking fried chicken. You take a whole chicken from the freezer, defrost it and cook it, while the RTR is like KFC or Popeyes chicken that you can buy anytime. Sure you cooked it yourself, but it tastes nowhere near as good as the fast food ones. 

I can take the hobby discussion in my good humoured stride but my butter milk chicken kicks any chain offering up and down the street. 

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@Bash @Nick-W notice I said cook the chicken right after defrosting. I did not mention any seasoning or marinating. Basically what I’m referring to is how someone who doesn’t really know how to cook, does chicken. Just like an entry-level Tamiya kit - it’s bland, so-so, doesn’t perform great out of the box. Your southern home-made and butter milk chicken would be the hopped up versions :D

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4 minutes ago, one_hit said:

Your southern home-made and butter milk chicken would be the hopped up versions :D

Tamiya would probably do all eleven herbs and spices as individual hop ups 😅

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Tamiyas that giant resturant chain that would sell you a chicken sandwhich but make you pay for your ketchup.

Also, this threads making me hungry!

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Just read through the whole thing, and by now all I have to say is that I'm really hungry for some home made butter milk chicken. Where can I find you @Nick-W??

 

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36 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

Tamiyas that giant resturant chain that would sell you a chicken sandwhich but make you pay for your ketchup.

Also, this threads making me hungry!

..Yeah, and they'd give you all the bits individually and you'd have to put it together. Meanwhile at Traxxas Burger it's triple fried  XXL chips with cheese with a burger where the bread is also a burger and the box is also bacon, but you have to pretend you like the Tamiyas better because that's what you had as a kid and you just know they treat the waitresses like **** at over at Traxxas and you can't go in without being called "bro".

So you judge those who eat there, because deep deep down perhaps just one day you want to eat a burger where the box it comes in is actually bacon, and you say, but they don't even make their burgers.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Nikko85 said:

..Yeah, and they'd give you all the bits individually and you'd have to put it together. Meanwhile at Traxxas Burger it's triple fried  XXL chips with cheese with a burger where the bread is also a burger and the box is also bacon, but you have to pretend you like the Tamiyas better because that's what you had as a kid and you just know they treat the waitresses like **** at over at Traxxas and you can't go in without being called "bro".

So you judge those who eat there, because deep deep down perhaps just one day you want to eat a burger where the box it comes in is actually bacon, and you say, but they don't even make their burgers.

So Mcdonalds then?

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1 minute ago, Kowalski86 said:

So Mcdonalds then?

I'd say Tamiya's is Wimpy, Traxxas is Guy Fieri's place. :D

 

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45 minutes ago, Nikko85 said:

..Yeah, and they'd give you all the bits individually and you'd have to put it together. Meanwhile at Traxxas Burger it's triple fried  XXL chips with cheese with a burger where the bread is also a burger and the box is also bacon, but you have to pretend you like the Tamiyas better because that's what you had as a kid and you just know they treat the waitresses like **** at over at Traxxas and you can't go in without being called "bro".

So you judge those who eat there, because deep deep down perhaps just one day you want to eat a burger where the box it comes in is actually bacon, and you say, but they don't even make their burgers.

 

 

 

I'm vegetarian...

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@Nikko85 and every 6 months there’s a change colour of bacon box that’s no different other than the colour yet sold as a completely new product yet it’s just the same old bacon, or should I say lipstick on a pig?

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