How the rest of the hobby views "us"

[Saito2 6033]

I think in the recent "Thrill of destruction" thread there may have been a bit of undercurrent of how I (or we, if others felt this way) was looking outward at a facet of what's going on outside of the typical "Tamiya bubble". Listening to a new podcast at work, I got a brief glimpse at how those outside of Tamiya-world view us. This isn't meant to be divisive. In fact, we should all get along to strengthen the hobby as a whole. I feel its best to observe things from as many viewpoints as possible to get a fuller picture of any given situation. So, how do you think the Tamiya faithful are viewed by the world of bashers with their Traxxas, Arrmas, etc?

From what little I've gleaned, older folks outside of Tamiya now, often started with Tamiya, often having fond memories, but moved on. Re-releases present a novelty and they might pick up a childhood favorite for old times sake, drive it a couple times, then shelve it to continue crawling with their Axial or long jumping their Maxx. The younger folks, devoid of nostalgia, simply don't get what we're about. The Clod Buster is about the only breakthrough product that gets respect as its still in monster truck racing circles (though now being supplanted by the LMT). In some cases, I can see just how pointless something like a Hornet might be to them (though not all of us). Still, the goofy but relaxed fun of a Lunch Box or knocking about with an old Blackfoot will forever be lost on them. Its not to say we all love everything Tamiya. I just recently admitted to not being in love with wheelie vehicles outside of the Lunch Box. The gist was that we are a strong dedicated group, but one which "they" are puzzled by. Its nothing new. Antique automobile enthusiast are equally perplexed (and often angered by) hot rodders but yet both love the automobile. 

For members outside the States, how does Tamiya and the rest of the RC community interact? Its always been my feeling that Tamiya's presence is strong outside the US. Perhaps this dichotomy is more present in the US. 

Personally, I can understand the enjoyment of running an E-Revo (just not driving it to the point of destruction) even if I find it unattractive and will return to Tamiyas as a whole. I wouldn't turn down a free one for the occasional experience. I question if that's a two-way street though, but that's fine. Again this isn't about choosing sides but more about understanding each other. Just some random thoughts.  

[alvinlwh 5292]

I was a static modeller since I was 5, four decades ago. In the late 80s early 90s, in my early teens, I was seen as a geek and weirdo when everyone else was into arcade. It happens that I was into PC as well, so can be said I was ahead of the times, why pay for playing a game once when I can pay once and play foeever?

I only (re)started RC two years ago, but I seem to notice that the smartphone virtual purchase generation youngsters seem to see my RC as cool, moving in real life rather than on screen.

From my fellow modelling friend that I grew up with (in a different country), there seem to be a comeback to modelling. It is now seen as cool again, perhaps because it is something physical in the real world rather than something that one cannot touch.

[speedy_w_beans 4265]

A Reddit thread on this subject...

"If you are spending close to the $300 mark or higher on a Tamiya kit, you're better off with something like the Arrma Typhon or Senton. It will be far more durable than any Tamiya kit."

"Tamiya’s good for retro/nostalgia. They’re not generally competitive when it comes to actual performance or innovation, but if you like old-school RC it’s hard to beat Tamiya."

"Tamiya vehicles are more like expensive model kits with electronics, the plastic feels more more brittle than other manufactures and they will break far more easily and often. They do not make for good bashers or racers. They are fun to build, but the overall quality isn't near as good and I think they are overpriced."

"i was out of the scene for a bit, then my 4 year old and my buddy wanted to get into it, so i bought a tamiya 2wd buggy. 2 weeks later i bought something else. i put a 2500kv brushless in it and it was fun, but not remotely competitive to be fast or strong enough to take a bigger motor or even do a decent jump properly. I got a 2wd rustler and it's night and day better. i took the buggy out last week just to shake the dust off and it broke. tamiya discontinued it recently or else parts are impossible to find. just skip the tamiya step is my opinion."

"Tamiya is more for the model train/plastic model building types imo. Tamiya has been around forever and jas great stuff for a certain person. Traxxas, Aarma is probably where you want to be. Problem I (and many will agree) have with both brands is the proprietary batteries and charger."

"Stock Tamiya kits are great but I'd say they have a durability and performance threshold. If you wish to go faster than 25mph or take jumps/do vertical falls greater than 5 feet, you will need to upgrade parts."

[Wooders28 4563]

10 minutes ago, speedy_w_beans said:

Tamiya vehicles are more like expensive model kits with electronics, the plastic feels more more brittle than other manufactures and they will break far more easily and often. They do not make for good bashers or racers. They are fun to build, but the overall quality isn't near as good and I think they are overpriced.

This ⬆️

[Hrimfaxi 45]

What was the podcast?  I'd be keen to give it a listen.  

[Juls1 1616]

I think it’s hard to justify the cost of Tamiyas compared to other manufacturers these days. I don’t have any problem with it but I can understand others will. Recently looked at starting racing again, so was going to hit up my TD2 to take that (which I still will). 
 

thing is, in Australia your looking at $400ish AUD for a TD2, and an associated B6 is about $530 Aud. 
 

TD2 is going to want an extra $400-500aud spent on hopups really, the associated is ready to go and it’s a superior vehicle for racing. Fact is there is no monetary justification to buy the tamiya at all. 

but i don’t really care I’ll still run the tamiya. I guess that’s the mentality some of us have, but I guess you need to be lucky enough to have deep enough pockets too and be comfortable enough in yourself to handle the ridicule from the other people at the track that either can’t afford tamiya and or don’t understand it. 

I own about 5 Traxxas cars, and various other bashers but none of them give me the buzz that a tamiya kit does. It’s not just running rc that I enjoy it’s the tinkering too. But I think almost Tamiyas have an actual soul. 
 

funnily enough, the way the other manufacturers are pumping out cheap, incredibly strong and capable cars with ultra high performance. Tamiya in turn has actually become a little bit elitist. 
 

this idea you can’t buy tamiya parts however I find amusing, these people obviously never owned anything owned by horizon hobby that’s a few years old. The discontinue and dump support quicker than any other company in the industry. Almost to the point of selling you a product then running off with your money never to be seen again.  
 

yes tamiya has its products that have limited support but there is a lot of products we have been able to buy parts for 30+ years. 

[Kowalski86 2179]

Within the US, Tamiya fans are seen as the types that prefer to build RCs but not drive them much.

19 minutes ago, Juls1 said:

. funnily enough, the way the other manufacturers are pumping out cheap, incredibly strong and capable cars with ultra high performance. Tamiya in turn has actually become a little bit elitist. 

They've certainly gotten concieted, they've cultivated a huge loyal following over the years so they're going to keep giving us bushings and pogo sticks.

[Willy iine 17939]

I had been building a bunch of Kyosho's and more high end Tamiya's like the Egress, TRF420X lately so I forgot what a typical Tamiya kit was like.. well, until I recently built the M06.  I don't know how to say this nicely, so I won't, but I think I just did.  

The chassis is definitely low end.. but it's fine since, as others have mentioned, Tamiya is more about being a model I enjoy looking at while in motion.  

I recently bought a pre painted RTR MST drift car sporting a GR Supra body.  I had to put some work into it to finish the body per their instructions (lamps and wings, etc), but the majority was already done.. to my surprise, done quite well too.   Like the side window trims are a satin gunmetal-like finish which actually looks like my real 1:1 GR Supra's rubber seals.  Body has quite a bit of detail, separate plastic wipers, side mirrors ..lines are clean and very attractively molded.   I would not hesitate to get another MST RTR like their M3.  The body quality is better than Kyosho's RTR (both my Hakosuka GTR and 240Z exhibit weird mold lines mid panel, decal application is subpar, but thanks to Kogawa-san's design, the chassis is quite good)..MST's body is at the level of Tamiya if not better for the separate wipers and non fake looking glossy window trim decals.  

So what is the benefit of Tamiya if the body has no more real edge over other brands..?   

My pretend RC shop is built around my M38 Willy's so I will never abandon Tamiya, but I can see why other brand oriented folks are confused.  It's almost like if you don't own an original vintage Tamiya of some sort (rere included), what are you doing here? 

 

[Kowalski86 2179]

55 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

 The body quality is better than Kyosho's RTR (both my Hakosuka GTR and 240Z exhibit weird mold lines mid panel, decal application is subpar, but thanks to Kogawa-san's design, the chassis is quite good)..MST's body is at the level of Tamiya if not better for the separate wipers and non fake looking glossy window trim decals.  

So what is the benefit of Tamiya if the body has no more real edge over other brands..?   

My pretend RC shop is built around my M38 Willy's so I will never abandon Tamiya, but I can see why other brand oriented folks are confused.  It's almost like if you don't have an original vintage Tamiya of some sort (rere included), what are you doing here? 

 

For me its some of the cartoony thick outlined stickers on Tamiyas that don't look right, and the mold lines. I have a Nikko Pontiac GTO that has proper door handles and a decent grille, now look at the door handles on Tamiyas Citreon 2CV.

Otherwise the only modern Tamiyas that I get are the more eccentric ones, the Dancing Rider, the dump truck that pops wheelies, their crazy 6 wheeled monster trucks.

[markbt73 4931]

Counterpoint to whatever "they" think of us: I don't consider anything RTR to be hobby-grade. Opening boxes isn't much of a hobby. If the only tool you need is a pair of side-cutters to snip the zip ties holding it in the box, and all you're going to do with it is crash into the garage door, you might as well save a bunch of money and just buy that New Bright garbage from Walmart. In my opinion, of course.

[one_hit 1011]

3 hours ago, markbt73 said:

Counterpoint to whatever "they" think of us: I don't consider anything RTR to be hobby-grade. Opening boxes isn't much of a hobby. If the only tool you need is a pair of side-cutters to snip the zip ties holding it in the box, and all you're going to do with it is crash into the garage door, you might as well save a bunch of money and just buy that New Bright garbage from Walmart. In my opinion, of course.

Just because it’s RTR, doesn’t mean it’s not hobby-grade. On the contrary, most Tamiyas are closer to being “toy-grade” compared to RTRs, for example Tamiyas with pogo stick friction shocks, screws for steering arm cranks, non-adjustable gearing, fixed suspension and steering arms. And I will argue that the most important part of this hobby is the actual driving itself, which RTRs do offer and what almost all RTR buyers do with their vehicles. There’s less shelf queens, hoarders and flippers, just guys who love to run RC cars. Nothing wrong if you enjoy building kits, but there’s nothing wrong with buying RTR either. I hope you guys can get rid of this elitist attitude. 

[Elbowloh 689]

1 hour ago, one_hit said:

Just because it’s RTR, doesn’t mean it’s not hobby-grade. On the contrary, most Tamiyas are closer to being “toy-grade” compared to RTRs, for example Tamiyas with pogo stick friction shocks, screws for steering arm cranks, non-adjustable gearing, fixed suspension and steering arms. And I will argue that the most important part of this hobby is the actual driving itself, which RTRs do offer and what almost all RTR buyers do with their vehicles. There’s less shelf queens, hoarders and flippers, just guys who love to run RC cars. Nothing wrong if you enjoy building kits, but there’s nothing wrong with buying RTR either. I hope you guys can get rid of this elitist attitude. 

Well this is the crux isn't it, what is the most important part. Some think it's the driving, others the building and tinkering. 

 

In effect it's two different hobbies, RC building and RC driving.

You call Tamiya people elitist, but there seems to be elitist driving too, where if a car can't do huge drops then it's no good.

[Wooders28 4563]

8 hours ago, Juls1 said:

TD2 is going to want an extra $400-500aud spent on hopups really, the associated is ready to go and it’s a superior vehicle for racing. Fact is there is no monetary justification to buy the tamiya at all. 

This was my view, in the ,old vs new thread. Tamiyas new offerings, are still old, in the eyes of other RCers, requiring alot of money and time, just to bring them up to anywhere near modern day standard.

I'm wanting to have a 'tamiya day' at my RC Club, similar to the ,tamiya junkies ,down the road.

This is because a few of us want to run them and be competitive ,as its no fun driving in your rear view mirror, having to constantly move over to be lapped.

The club have suggested a 'tamiya & vintage' event, which suggests where the club members think tamiya are in the RC order.

 

I wouldn't mind a TD2 & TD4 tbh, but I can't justify the heavy price tag, like you ,considering other parts I'd need to buy, to bring them upto modern basic spec. So in waiting for the 2nd hand market in a few years time.

[one_hit 1011]

1 hour ago, Elbowloh said:

Well this is the crux isn't it, what is the most important part. Some think it's the driving, others the building and tinkering. 

 

In effect it's two different hobbies, RC building and RC driving.

You call Tamiya people elitist, but there seems to be elitist driving too, where if a car can't do huge drops then it's no good.

The hobby is called RC, Radio “Control”, so yes the driving or “controlling” is the most important part in my opinion. I believe we all started in this hobby with the intention of building and driving a model. I can’t think of anybody first getting into RC and saying “Hey it would be cool to get into RC. Build a car, tinker with it while I’m not looking at it on the shelf”. Nothing wrong with just building (I have a few shelf queens myself), just saying the core of this hobby is the driving.
 

Tell me which is more elitist, someone who says a Tamiya is no good because it can’t do huge drops (which is a valid opinion) or somebody who says RTRs are comparable to toy-grade garbage from Walmart (which is absolute BS)

[ad456 294]

There is the thought that if you want a kit to go and do a specific part of the hobby then Tamiya is just not worth it, for a drift specific chassis an MST would likely be far more sense(or other brands, I’m not overly familiar with that segment) and it’s absolutely true of crawling too(Axial, Carisma etc).
For a solid axle monster then as you’ve stated the Clod is no longer king but does have its place in retro. The racing scene for buggies has no room for Tamiya hardly from what I see and it’s possibly the same for Touring Cars, again I’m not up on those either. The only segment that they do still own are the Wheelies/6x6 Big Wheelers. 

Tamiya was once the king, get the kit and then pocket money hop-ups will get it going better. I don’t really feel Tamiya has kept up with the other manufacturers, with the release of the BBX it shows there is a chance someone has realised this, some aspects of that kit show fresh thinking. As others have said even the most basic features of the modern market are considered a hop-up on a Tamiya. 

This is in no way meant to seem harsh on Tamiya, I love them but I’m starting to diversify my collection at quite a rate and it seems to be for the models I actually run, my last purchases were the Kyosho USA-1 and I’ve swapped out nothing and my RC4WD TF2 which I can see will get a lot of use. My ECX Torment is another firm favourite as it will take any dumb moment and not end up in a parts order. I’ve not run my CC-01, WR-01’s, TT02 or even the Wild One in over an year and the Clod only comes out for snow now. I will always own Tamiya without question but I find them more and more to be the cars I don’t use. It’s disappointing from my own perspective as I hold Tamiya in big regard but I’m starting to wonder why?

Edit : because kits are rare and I like building and nostalgia 

Edited February 19 by ad456

[Silver-Can 401]

At the end of the day we're all driving toy cars so it seems a bit daft to me to get all upperty about what is the 'right' way to do it. 

That said - there are different facets to the hobby (as with most hobbies) and people will enjoy some more than others. I enjoy all aspects of RC and not just with cars as I have planes too. I enjoy pootling around at the beach or park or wherever with my tamiyas. They almost exclusively run brushless and lipo so aren't slow, but I choose to drive in a somewhat scale fashion, not trying to jump the grand canyon, clock 3 million mph or drive under the Atlantic because generally real cars, in real life, don't do that either. If I did, I probably wouldn't be overly surprised (or complain) if my RC car breaks.

[Kowalski86 2179]

8 hours ago, markbt73 said:

Counterpoint to whatever "they" think of us: I don't consider anything RTR to be hobby-grade. Opening boxes isn't much of a hobby.

So an "expert built" Tamiya isn't hobby grade either?

For me RTR means not having to buy bearings, shocks, single use cans of paint, nor spending hours cutting/stickering bodies only to roll it over on my first drive.

2 hours ago, ad456 said:

For a solid axle monster then as you’ve stated the Clod is no longer king but does have its place in retro. The racing scene for buggies has no room for Tamiya hardly from what I see and it’s possibly the same for Touring Cars, again I’m not up on those either. The only segment that they do still own are the Wheelies/6x6 Big Wheelers. 

Some tracks run a Euro-truck class, which Im certain is exclusively Tamiyas truck based TT-01E line up, others run TT-02 classes. I dunno if Tamiyas are driven against other manufacterers though.

[Willy iine 17939]

I will just state a fact that the Kyosho Fazer Mk2 chassis (RTR) is far superior vs a TT02 and all chassis leading up to the TT02.  I would not be surprised if the Fazer outperforms all TT02 variants.

One has to remember it was designed by the same person who designed the Kyosho Optima.. and we know how the MID performs vs all Tamiya buggies..  it is definitely not toy grade.

Again, just stating fact.. not hate or anything like that towards Tamiya.   

[John Gordon 47]

I've mentioned elsewhere that my first proper kit was the Escort Cosworth 58112.

Kyosho released a Cosworth too, 200mm, rubbish decals and generic wheels. Used to see it advertised in the mags and it made my Tamiya feel all the more special.

Some of the newer Kyosho RTR shells are now on point with details. Yet the Tamiya's have no development an are literally as they were back in the day.

Tamiya seems stuck in the past, a bit like their nostalgia loving fans

 

[Cynan 520]

I got my first Tamiya after seeing another kid with one at school and thinking it was the best thing since sliced bread. Before that I’d only ever seen indoor RC cars. I was luckily enough to get my own second hand which I enjoyed thoroughly and bashed around with a neighbour who also gad a Tamiya.

Meanwhile at school a kid in my class learnt I had an RC and quizzed me about it. I knew nothing outside of Tamiya and the stock kit specs. After lots of questions he worked out I had a stock motor and I learnt there were rebuilding modified motors. He seemed very disinterested when he learnt it was stock and that it was Tamiya. I asked him what he had and he said with a smug grin he raced Losi modified.

So even bank then I think there were those thinking why would you have a Tamiya. For me it because it was all I knew. We didn’t have a lot of money, never went to a club, didn’t really know they existed at that time either and never had exposure to anything else.

Roll on to today and for me Tamiya is very much nostalgia and wanting to impart my cherished memories with the next generation.

I love the fact some of you guys get together to share this love and bash and race your Tamiya models. Honestly can’t see Tamiya surviving after our generation unless they restart the racing team.

They are expensive for what they are compared to what else is out there and there is no reason to buy one without that nostalgia in my opinion.

[Wooders28 4563]

49 minutes ago, Cynan said:

So even bank then I think there were those thinking why would you have a Tamiya

Pretty much my experience in the mid - late 80's, which is considered Tamiyas heyday.

I rocked up at a club, with a frog, and most people had the new fangled RC10, which just wiped the floor with my old tamiya , and when I sped it up a bit, by fitting a ,Parma K stock motor, it spat the dummy.

That was the very last time I ran a tamiya on a track in anger (expecting to win, or at least compete). I got 2 jobs (paper rounds and setting up a fruit & veg shop ,before and after school) ,and bought myself the new kyosho Ultima (and a 112b esc) then a mid custom a few years later, to race 4wd.

I remember when running the Mid, a lad turned up with an Avante, and expecting to do well......😬

 

Some look down on 'bashers' but the likes of 'Kev Talbot ' have 2 million followers, we have less than 3% of that on the Tamiyaclub. If each of them, has one car, breaking it on a weekly basis, which company are making money!?! 

[Willy iine 17939]

7 hours ago, one_hit said:

Just because it’s RTR, doesn’t mean it’s not hobby-grade. On the contrary, most Tamiyas are closer to being “toy-grade” compared to RTRs, for example Tamiyas with pogo stick friction shocks, screws for steering arm cranks, non-adjustable gearing, fixed suspension and steering arms. And I will argue that the most important part of this hobby is the actual driving itself, which RTRs do offer and what almost all RTR buyers do with their vehicles. There’s less shelf queens, hoarders and flippers, just guys who love to run RC cars. Nothing wrong if you enjoy building kits, but there’s nothing wrong with buying RTR either. I hope you guys can get rid of this elitist attitude. 

Totally agree.  I've been toying hobby grade RC cars since the early 80's and honestly, I no longer enjoy building gear diffs or ball diffs or cheap suspension arms, winding up joint cups, oil dampers, anything repetitive to what I've already done the past over 4 decades.  I do enjoy building high end cars like the TRF and other double deck CF based cars, but tub based cars to me are all the same now.  

So I enjoy the RTR's.. I just pick up where the manufacturer left off..  I add my final touches whether it be my choice servo or receiver, some details on the body, etc. and make it mine.   I love that.  Simple, effective, no fuss, and looks presentable in my pretend RC shop.   

My latest car is a Kyosho 240Z with Futaba receiver, 1252MG, LED tails to light up at below 9% throttle, custom muffler I made yesterday out of styrene, drew panel lines, etc.

[Willy iine 17939]

7 hours ago, Elbowloh said:

Well this is the crux isn't it, what is the most important part. Some think it's the driving, others the building and tinkering. 

 

In effect it's two different hobbies, RC building and RC driving.

You call Tamiya people elitist, but there seems to be elitist driving too, where if a car can't do huge drops then it's no good.

I guess for me, I did not particularly enjoy building the M06 recently.  It was a horrible fitment* with the Beetle body, not to forget the kit 1060 ESC motor leads were much too short to reach the motor properly so soldered new leads.  I mean to me this is no big deal as I do it all the time, but what if it was a novice with no soldering experience?  They could be heartbroken not being able to finish the car per instructions.

*I don't know if I mis-assembled, but I cross-checked the instructions multiple times for the front suspension and each check it appeared I assembled correctly, but the car had too much positive camber and fitment to body was horrible.  I didn't care at this point to waste more time on an entry level car and ended up removing a few pieces and cutting the upper arm cups to allow much needed negative camber, also applied a lot more negative camber on the rear to dial in the rear stability vs instructions.  Car drives very well and looks fantastic.

I do enjoy how it sits in my pretend RC shop.       I will note one cannot achieve this drivable stance in stock form nor by following instructions.

[one_hit 1011]

@Willy iine your pretend RC shop looks fantastic! I wish I had something similar. My cars are scattered all over the place. Some in bookshelves in the hallway, some in the guest room where I do all my RC work. 
 

As seen in the photos, most of mine are hobby-grade Tamiya kits, with a few “toy-grade” RTRs   I agree with the sentiments posted earlier. Tamiyas just cost too much for what you’re getting. They also haven’t released anything new that has gotten me excited. As a Tamiya fan it’s painful for me to watch this decline but hey, I can’t force myself to buy something that’s poor value (well I actually already do with the re-re’s) or doesn’t excite me. The BBX does look cool but so does the new Losi RZR Rey. So my next purchase will probably be either the RZR, an Armma or a Traxxas (never had any of those last two)
 

[OldSchoolRC1 922]

18 hours ago, Saito2 said:

So, how do you think the Tamiya faithful are viewed by the world of bashers with their Traxxas, Arrmas, etc?.  

I for one am never concerned with what "they" think. It's my hard earned money, I'll spend and enjoy it however I please. I like building kits, I like the quirk of Tamiya, and that's all there is to it. As long as there's still enough of us to keep selling kits to, who cares what others do? 

I don't understand the basher crowd myself. I find no joy in jumping my vehicle so high it breaks, or going so out of control I crash and need to replace 1/2 the vehicle. (and then complaining it is too fragile after hitting a telephone pole at 60 and shattering) If that's what you want to do, it's your money - by all means. 

Nor do I have any interest in running with people like that. I watched 3 minutes of the Kevin Talbot video posted in a crawler thread here where he's comparing it to an RGT and turned it off in disgust. In the vid, he comes racing up and crashes right into the RGT. HaHaHa. It's funny. No, you Idiot, it's not funny. If you come racing up and purposely smash into my new RC vehicle, whatever it cost, you get one warning and if you do it again, you'll find your teeth on the ground. I simply cannot stand those types of people. 

I took my Dynahead to the last G6 I went to, and got a few snide comments from the "hardcore" guys about it being a Tamiya. Stuff it! My little Tamiya went everywhere I pointed it, and left more than a few hardcore crawlers in the dust. I'll gladly take it again and if people have an issue with it, it's their problem, not mine. I plan on taking my CR01 and CC01 to this year's. 

Sorry, mini rant.