What’s next???

[Wooders28 4723]

1 hour ago, HonkSolo said:

There is already such a thing - LiFePo batteries.

They are being used in motorcycles for many years now, do not need any special treatment and are very safe.

Tamiya promotes them too, but they appear to be difficult to get in Europe for rc.

I was under the impression, the discharge rate wasn't as good as LiHv or even the older style Lipo?

Guessing that's why it's not really taken off? (Although ,you can get LiFePo packs for transmitters).

[HonkSolo 21]

Quote

I was under the impression, the discharge rate wasn't as good as LiHv or even the older style Lipo?

You loose some, you win some.

Trading performance for safety.

I'm not aware of any soon-to-expect progress in battery technology that improves in all aspects at the same time.

[alvinlwh 5895]

5 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

I was under the impression, the discharge rate wasn't as good as LiHv or even the older style Lipo?

I was under the impression that LiHV are just lipo with "better" cells identified during the manufacturing process, but what   is "better"? Do we even know? As pointed out in another lipo thread, none of the actual cells manufacturers are stated on our lipo packs as they "refused" to be associated with our unregulated use of their cells with no safety features?

Anyway, while LiFE has poorer power performance (in most aspect) compared to lipo, the thing is in this hobby, power performance seems to be the only thing that matters to most while other factors are ignored. LiFE certainly has some advantages over lipo but none of it is in power performance so it is said to be worse than lipo while it is not the case. It can certainly still appeal to some if not for the fact it is so difficult to acquire outside JP. So it always become a lipo Vs NiMH question in this forum.

[87lc2 2666]

Not to keep derailing the thread, but not sure why people are still scared of Lipos, doesnt make any sense.  Maybe just fear of the unfamiliar.  Cared for properly (which isn't particular hard or burdensome) they are just fine and offer great performance. 

[Twinfan 1253]

13 minutes ago, 87lc2 said:

Not to keep derailing the thread, but not sure why people are still scared of Lipos, doesnt make any sense.  Maybe just fear of the unfamiliar.  Cared for properly (which isn't particular hard or burdensome) they are just fine and offer great performance. 

I'm not scared of them, I just don't need the performance improvement they offer as I'm not a racer and I can't be bothered with the additional care they require...

[Wooders28 4723]

1 hour ago, HonkSolo said:

Trading performance for safety.

Safety wise, the current tech is fairly safe tbh, especially with the likes of the BRCA keeping the max battery charging voltage to 4.2v per cell, even though the liHv most people use now, can goto 4.35v.

Unless you're winning races, RC tech rarely takes off, 'win on Sunday sell on Monday' I think the saying is.

 

36 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

I was under the impression that LiHV are just lipo with "better" cells identified during the manufacturing process

No idea, presumed they where a slightly different polymer, to allow the slightly higher safe voltage.

[one_hit 1047]

2 hours ago, 87lc2 said:

Not to keep derailing the thread, but not sure why people are still scared of Lipos, doesnt make any sense.  Maybe just fear of the unfamiliar.  Cared for properly (which isn't particular hard or burdensome) they are just fine and offer great performance. 

Yeah I don’t get it either. I’d understand the concern if you have kids charging and storing their own batteries, but if you’re an adult and the only one using your batteries then you should be able to handle Lipo. The additional care required is really simple. Just use a cheap lipo alarm, storage charge then store it in a lipo bag inside an ammo can (both of which are cheap). Really easy. Once it starts to bulge, then throw it away. The performance and run times you get from lipo is amazing. When doing practice laps at the track I usually get tired first or crash and break something before I deplete the battery  so yeah, never going back to NiMh

[ad456 331]

Most iPhones run on 4.35v batteries so it can be plenty safe. I believe it is a slightly different chemistry and the trade-off is longevity of the battery, it’ll give up in less cycles than a normal 4.2v lipo. 
 

I love my lipos but the storage charge part is a bit annoying. I still tend to reach for the Nimh unless I need or want the extra bit of go. 

[one_hit 1047]

1 hour ago, ad456 said:

Most iPhones run on 4.35v batteries so it can be plenty safe. I believe it is a slightly different chemistry and the trade-off is longevity of the battery, it’ll give up in less cycles than a normal 4.2v lipo. 
 

I love my lipos but the storage charge part is a bit annoying. I still tend to reach for the Nimh unless I need or want the extra bit of go. 

The Spektrum smart lipo batteries will start to self-discharge themselves to storage voltage after a set time. I am hoping this technology will become standard. On the subject of tech, I just love how my two recent Losi purchases (LMT and DBXL-E) come with telemetry built-in on the ESC. The included radios only showed you voltage if you had the Spektrum smart batteries which I don’t have, but by upgrading to a DX5C I am now able to see RX voltage, pack voltage, RPM, amp draw, ESC temperature without having to buy any additional hardware or sensors. Now I can stop running when the batteries drop to storage voltage levels. Again, this is something I hope will become more mainstream in the hobby. Maybe a universal telemetry protocol used by all manufacturers. 

[ad456 331]

I must admit I like the idea of the self managing batteries to a point, even if it’s only helpful when you haven’t run a pack dry.

It’s the hideous proprietary nature of the modern world that puts me clean off them, how long until this only works with other stuff from its own brand, can’t swap to the plugs you want etc. I like my Apple stuff but the walls they put up to stop various accessories is mental. I can’t see it being long until Traxxas and possibly Horizon/Spectrum start this kinda behaviour. 

Without question it’s a good step in the right direction, just hopefully we would get a ISO type standard for the hobby. 

[lukej 319]

Like so many of you I think it’ll be new battery tech.

The more energy dense a battery, the smaller & lighter it can be made for the same performance and that has benefits for racing, vintage builds and hobbyists.

For racers, it would allow better weight placement within a chassis - think lower CoG & roll centre, but also more broadly the placement of a mass in the chassis can affect the front/rear and left/right balances.

For vintage builds, a more energy dense LiPo cell could be packages as a hard case in saddle and stick formations to fit into older chassis.

For hobbyists, new tech supersedes old and drives the cost down.

Thinking of other developments, there’s none that spring to mind which benefit the whole hobby so broadly.

Luke

[HonkSolo 21]

Quote

not sure why people are still scared of Lipos, doesnt make any sense.

Yeah I got infected by the LiPo paranoia as well and went for NiMH for my current GF01.

I knew that Li-batteries are everywhere and initially thought LiPo is a more dangerous variant of it.

When I read up on LiPo I found that LiPo is indeed the current standard Li-battery with a polymer electrolyte (instead of a solid) that allows more freedom in the design of the battery shape.

This is what is everywhere being used - in smartphones, tablets, even in houshold appliances etc.

So for these devices nobody appears to bother at all about Li-batteries, but for rc cars it is a major concern?

Of course for rc cars the batteries are being operated under harsh conditions (vibrations, shocks) and close to their max current ratings, so that certainly increases the risk for failure to some extent. Also the battery pack contains many large cells which makes quite a catastrophe when the battery goes mad. On the other hand, my laptop has even more cells in its battery and I don't worry about that at all.

[alvinlwh 5895]

1 hour ago, HonkSolo said:

So for these devices nobody appears to bother at all about Li-batteries, but for rc cars it is a major concern?

Samsung Note 7. Also UPS6. And the various B787s.

Also someone mentioned, the cells used in many other applications have a protection circuit (can be seen if you open one up, not recommend!) against over discharge, over current, etc. RC cells do not.

[Twinfan 1253]

Yep, you can't compare LiPO use in RC to that of a phone or laptop.  They are much better protected, both physically and electronically, in those kinds of devices.  Hence the increased care need for RC use.