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I have a Tble-04s esc fitted to my RERE Grasshopper, I was planning on buying a 540 sport tune motor but according to the destruction manual the Esc only supports 25 turns and above. 

Has anyone successfully ran a sport tune with this esc or should I just go for a 540 torque tune to be safe? Will be running a Overlander 3300mah battery with it

 

Thanks

Alan 

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The instructions for the TBLE-04S state they run with Tamiya Sport Tuned motors or Tamiya motors >= 25 turns.

You'll be fine  ;)

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31 minutes ago, Twinfan said:

The instructions for the TBLE-04S state they run with Tamiya Sport Tuned motors or Tamiya motors >= 25 turns.

You'll be fine  ;)

Happy days 👌👍😂

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On 4/13/2023 at 9:02 AM, Twinfan said:

The instructions for the TBLE-04S state they run with Tamiya Sport Tuned motors or Tamiya motors >= 25 turns.

You'll be fine  ;)

Looked out the instructions just now and re read them, and you're comment 😂 

IMG_20230417_181818.jpg

IMG_20230417_181825.jpg

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Hmm, so a Tamiya Sport Tuned motor is => 25 turns then? Or how should you read the manual?

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I'm basically saying I read it but didn't read it properly. 

 

I think it means Sport Tuned motors and motors 25T or more? 

I am one to skim a manual to get what I need instead of reading it back to front before I play with things lol learn by doing 😂 

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Yep, it means Sport Tuned plus all others >= 25T. It would be easier if they just said anything except Super Stocks ;)

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37 minutes ago, Dan1891 said:

Hmm, so a Tamiya Sport Tuned motor is => 25 turns then? Or how should you read the manual?

There had been many lengthy discussions (arguements) about how many turns a ST is. Officially, from Tamiya, it is 23T, at least for the current silver ST.

0BhWSdZ.jpg

That ESC can handle a ST, but none of the SS.

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But now i'm even more confused. :)

That Tamiya Sport Tuned motor say's 23T?

And the TBLE-04S manual says Sport Tuned motor, or motor with => 25T ?

So, actually the TBLE-04S is good with motors => 23T then?

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The Sport Tuned is 23T but is the only motor <25T that can be used. Something in the design means the current draw is less than a typical 23T motor and so the ESC can cope.

Given the lack of torque that the motor has, I suspect it has weaker than normal magnets which give the reduced current draw.

So it's quite simple - nothing less than 25T unless it's a Sport Tuned :)

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19 minutes ago, Twinfan said:

The Sport Tuned is 23T but is the only motor <25T that can be used. Something in the design means the current draw is less than a typical 23T motor and so the ESC can cope.

Given the lack of torque that the motor has, I suspect it has weaker than normal magnets which give the reduced current draw.

So it's quite simple - nothing less than 25T unless it's a Sport Tuned :)

OK!  So my old 1st gen Black Motor can't be used with this ESC then!

I think this one is 23T?

 

P1060355.JPG

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11 minutes ago, Twinfan said:

The Sport Tuned is 23T but is the only motor <25T that can be used. Something in the design means the current draw is less than a typical 23T motor and so the ESC can cope.

Given the lack of torque that the motor has, I suspect it has weaker than normal magnets which give the reduced current draw.

So it's quite simple - nothing less than 25T unless it's a Sport Tuned :)

That's what I meant 😂 just in a less technical meaning 😂 

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As mentioned many times on this and other forums, the Sport Tuned and Torque Tuned are 27t just like the regular silver cans, only their timing is different (more advance timing). There are other differences in the end bell design but that is the idea. BlackHoleSun.fr documented on his blog how he opened up an old Sport Tuned and counted the turns... sure enough it was 27 turns just like a silver can. Tamiya has been marketting the Sport Tuned as 23t and the Torque Tuned as 25t... I am guessing this is just something they placed in the 'need to know' category. It helps people differentiate the various motors... and justifies the price difference.

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Yep, I'd like to see that too. It's the first I've heard about the Torque Tuned not being a 25T motor. I've read about the Sport Tuned theory but not seen the source article where it was stated.

Wouldn't it be very un-Japanese to incorrectly label motors that way?

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https://www.blackholesun.fr/index.php/en/37-en/my-models/off-road/rally/124-tamiya-58281-ford-focus-rs-wrc-2001-tb-01?start=3

It's just the effect of endbell timing. If you get one of the old-school 'mod' motors and play with the endbell timing, even just a few degrees, you will see a dramatic change in how fast it wants to rev and how hot it gets.

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Thanks for the link, interesting stuff  :)

The black motor was never badged with the number of turns - there's nothing on the box that indicates 23T - but the silver motor is clearly labelled as 23T on the box and on Tamiya's website:

spacer.png

Current Sport Tuned motor:  https://www.tamiya.com/english/products/53068/index.htm

spacer.png

 

This eBay listing has good pics of both black and silver boxes so you can see the sides etc:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254396766569

The Torque Tuned doesn't list the number of turns on the box, nor does it on Tamiya's website:

https://www.tamiya.com/english/products/54358/index.htm

spacer.png

 

So it seems that the old black can Sport Tuned and probably the current Torque Tuned motors are 27T with different levels of advanced timing.  Along with the N and J series silver cans, they are the only current motors without a turn rating on the packaging.  I think the current silver can Sport Tuned is a genuine 23T motor though, I really don't belive that Tamiya would put 23T on the box if that's not true.

 

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Thanks guys, I've just completed a purchase of a 540 sport tune and 18/19t pinion set from fusion hobbies 

Hopefully I'll get massive rooster tails at the beach and I'll keep the 380 silver can as a backup motor. 

Again thank you for the advice 👌

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@Juggular did an extensive test on those motors here.

There are definitely timing involved with both the black and silver ST.

And unless proven otherwise, I see no reason to call Tamiya a liar for stating the current ST is 23T on their box.

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Thanks @alvinlwh, I'd not seen that thread.  So it seems Tamiya may have messed with the specs of the old black can Sport Tuneds (27T and 23T with advanced timing) but the newer silver can is most likely a genuine 23T also with advanced timing.  Interesting that it's not as special as those specs would suggest, so it must be held back a bit by the magnets and brushes?  The Super Stocks obviously get the good stuff  :D

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12 minutes ago, Twinfan said:

Thanks @alvinlwh, I'd not seen that thread.  So it seems Tamiya may have messed with the specs of the old black can Sport Tuneds (27T and 23T with advanced timing) but the newer silver can is most likely a genuine 23T also with advanced timing.  Interesting that it's not as special as those specs would suggest, so it must be held back a bit by the magnets and brushes?  The Super Stocks obviously get the good stuff  :D

Don't just take one source as the definite answer for the number of turns for the old ST. I had seen some that had opened up Asian (IIRC) ones and it had 23T in it. Then there are some source that claims Europe are 27T, USA and Asia are 23T (or whatever combo), even the winding guage are different.

The new ones, they definitely state 23T, so unless someone opens one up...

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Oh I didn't.  Like I said, I suspect the specs changed over time - I doubt they were region specific.  It could be they were originally 27T then became 23T, hence the new silver can being a 23T.

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I have one Sport Tuned motor. It was bought in Japan in 2019. I will be happy to open it up and count the turns when it will be completely worn out. Just to contribute to the overall knowledge.

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10 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

I have one Sport Tuned motor. It was bought in Japan in 2019. I will be happy to open it up and count the turns when it will be completely worn out. Just to contribute to the overall knowledge.

That will be the silver one right?

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