Does Traxxas revel in being evil?

[Saito2]

I just saw this from an aftermarket parts supplier:

WHAT IS BIG "T"?

Big "T" stands for the largest company in the R/C industry (no sorry it's not Tamiya) and recently in early April 2023, a lot of aftermarket manufactures have received letters in the mail from Big "T" in regards to the use of its company name.  We completely respect their decision and are doing our best to make the changes to comply.  We will no longer be using the actual company name and will instead use Big "T".    We will need some time to update our webpage and product labels.  For the moment all product pages that have not been updated with the name change will not be available and off-line.  We apologize in advance for any inconvenience this might have caused and we appreciate everyone's understanding and patience as we take care of this time consuming change. Ok, aside from being wrong about who the "Big T" is, lol,  does Traxxas really have to do this? This is a company making parts to support their cars. I guess after suing everything on the planet with the word Max in it, they had to look elsewhere. Do they just sit around looking for people to bully. Disgusting. I'm so glad I didn't cave in and buy a TRX-4, getting a used CR01 instead.

[markbt73]

That doesn't even make sense. Can you imagine how different the 1:1 car hobby would look if Vic Edelbrock hadn't been allowed to say his parts were for a Chevy? Or if EMPI weren't allowed to say Volkswagen? What kind of complete imbecile lawyers are they hiring down there in Texas?

[SlideWRX]

Technically? Yes, they should do something.  Was it done in the most destructive way they could, possibly as a way to shut down companies that made parts that fit big T's product and shut down these small companies to improve big T parts sales? I think a magic 8 ball would turn up "Signs point to Yes".  It seems (and no, I don't have the whole story, I wish these little companies would clarify more) that the way the Little ACs (Aftermarket Companies) marketed their wares included usage of big Ts name in a way that someone (possibly just brain dead people) might infer was as branded or supported by big T.  Something like "big T model B aluminum arms" instead of "Aluminum arms made by LIttle AC that might possibly fit model B made by big T on Tuesdays and Thursday but in no way represents an association with big T".  It seems some of the sites may have clarified this but still used big T logos and other copywright/trademarks.

So technically big T needs to protect their name, but any reasonable company would have contacted Little ACs and made an effort to resolve this without threats and in a reasonable timeframe.  If the Little AC was using the big T name and Logo in a part description it would definitely be an issue, but big T could have been a lot more diplomatic in handling it.

Also, it seems like big T sent the threats to several mentioning big T by name in the part description in a way that possibly falls under fair use to describe the product.  Little ACs don't have the money to fight back on this so the only real solution is to make changes.

Also, this may only apply seriously to Little ACs in North America?  Foreign (and especially Chinese) companies probably don't care much...

 

[Juggular]

Beta Max died that way.  Beta was more compact than VHS, but didn't let others use it.  So the world moved on with larger VHS. Beta died.  

Other people using a trade mark is a big no-no, though.  Tamiya would (and should) go after 3rd party claiming to be "genuine Tamiya."  

Half the fun is upgrading. Tamiya seems to understand letting 3rd parties make parts is good for business.  Traxxas is basically helping Tamiya expand the market share. 

 

[Sogogi]

I saw a youtube video about them…. Also ended up ordering scx24 instead of trx4m.

[SlideWRX]

39 minutes ago, Sogogi said:

I saw a youtube video about them…. Also ended up ordering scx24 instead of trx4m.

That is a good summary, and he has an update where They pulled the Cease & Desist letters, but talks about how big T did other shady/sketchy stuff to their dealers and online retailers...

[Sogogi]

18 minutes ago, SlideWRX said:

That is a good summary, and he has an update where They pulled the Cease & Desist letters, but talks about how big T did other shady/sketchy stuff to their dealers and online retailers...

Yup. Saw that about battery stuff… 

[Rinskie]

This is sad and short sided. I get IP and all but they are shooting themselves in the foot. I have actually considered getting a Slash primarily because the after market support for it. Oh well, money saved for other things I guess. 

[Mrowka]

4 hours ago, Saito2 said:

I just saw this from an aftermarket parts supplier:

WHAT IS BIG "T"?

Big "T" stands for the largest company in the R/C industry (no sorry it's not Tamiya) and recently in early April 2023, a lot of aftermarket manufactures have received letters in the mail from Big "T" in regards to the use of its company name.  We completely respect their decision and are doing our best to make the changes to comply.  We will no longer be using the actual company name and will instead use Big "T".    We will need some time to update our webpage and product labels.  For the moment all product pages that have not been updated with the name change will not be available and off-line.  We apologize in advance for any inconvenience this might have caused and we appreciate everyone's understanding and patience as we take care of this time consuming change. Ok, aside from being wrong about who the "Big T" is, lol,  does Traxxas really have to do this? This is a company making parts to support their cars. I guess after suing everything on the planet with the word Max in it, they had to look elsewhere. Do they just sit around looking for people to bully. Disgusting. I'm so glad I didn't cave in and buy a TRX-4, getting a used CR01 instead.

This happens a lot in other industries. Try selling parts that fit a Fender guitar but are not manufactured by Fender.

[GeeWings]

Yes, this seems crazy. The RC hobby world is still a pretty niche but well connected community and bad stories travel quickly. They've even gone after a lot of one person outfits and it's all playing out on social media. 

All this bad press won't kill them but it just seems entirely unnecessary.

 

[Bash]

I don't think they are doing it in a way for their own sadistic amusement and don't want to lock out the aftermarket, but it certanly doesn't give them a good look to put it lightly. A direct quote from their trademarks page on how they would like parts to be listed, which can be viewed here states: "Traxxas employs third party web and marketplace scanning to search out and take immediate enforcement action against websites that use Traxxas trademarks to fraudulently misrepresent Traxxas product." I belive that the companies affected got flagged with these tools, and Traxxas contacted the web hosts for their sites about the infringement. This is pure speculation on my part, and feel free to disagree otherwise, but I don't think Traxxas told the webhosts to take the sites down and assumed they would contact the owners. Some of the affected companies probably should have done some due dilligance especially knowing Traxxas's litigation history, but they had never gone about trademarks in this way so I totally understand the anger and frustration. Traxxas also should have communicated their side of the story more publicly, and I think it's a little shady that they don't communicate much outside of marketing. I just don't think it's that deep when it comes to the more sinister aspects of it. As for the batteries, all of my Traxxas vehicles have aftermarket electronics and I've never used them besides the Nimh that came in my first Slash, so it doesn't affect me, but I've always assumed they weren't the best quality for the price based off of other's experiences. I do think at some point they will fully transision into their own ecosystem and I think it has already started with the extremly popular TRX4-M and all of its replacement and upgrade parts now only being avalible at Traxxas dealers and their website. I belive the rest of the lineup is not too far behind, and the electronics will slowly become proprietary over time, with non-standard connectors for radio gear and different motor mounting methods. The next line of batteries and ESCs could have some sort of lockout circuit in them that prevents their use in non-Traxxas vehicles, as this tech already exists with some laptop and phone batteries. I still plan on buying Traxxas products for the forseeable future unless they do something truly despicable, but I've moved on from from most of their poducts simply because my interests have changed and they are too much money for my college student budget anyway LOL. Sorry for the rambling post, this has been in my chest since it all happened and I hate to say it, but the average R/C hobbiest on YouTube and social media just can't think critically enough to see the other side of their respective arguments. 

[GeeWings]

All hearsay and one-sided points of view but a couple of guys who make custom parts have shared their stories. They never marketed as first-party Traxxas products and Traxxas has been very heavy handed with them, and pretty threatening. These are people selling handfuls of products a year, not some repro outfit flouting copyright laws. 

All this is totally unnecessary and unhelpful for the community and for Traxxas. I actually hope it comes back to bite them.

[Kowalski86]

Coming from videogames, I couldn't tell you how many companies have pulled "cease and desist" stunts like this, this is a bit unexpected in RC-dom though.

I do think that some of this is Traxxas trying to compete with the aftermarket...by hassling it. They're likely not seeing enough sales of their $40 bearing kit or other expensive bits.

On my end, I'm not going to completely purge my fleet of Traxxas (it's just 3 vehicles), but I am going to trim it down to one (specifically a Bandit).

4 hours ago, Sogogi said:

I saw a youtube video about them…. Also ended up ordering scx24 instead of trx4m.

Good call, one of my bigger gripes with the TRX4M (electronics aside) is that it comes with bronze bushings throughout...and its already assembled!

[Sogogi]

1 hour ago, Kowalski86 said:

 

On my end, I'm not going to completely purge my fleet of Traxxas (it's just 3 vehicles), but I am going to trim it down to one (specifically a Bandit).

I always wanted bandit… tried stampede and rustler, and personally think those original ones (not the new 4x4) are iconic on top of e maxx stuff. For 170bux… it is hard lol

[Kowalski86]

9 minutes ago, Sogogi said:

I always wanted bandit… tried stampede and rustler, and personally think those original ones (not the new 4x4) are iconic on top of e maxx stuff. For 170bux… it is hard lol

To me the Slash is iconic as well, it being the first SCT (not counting Tamiyas trophy trucks)...even if it's ultimately a Stampede with a longer wheelbase.

 

[TurnipJF]

7 hours ago, markbt73 said:

What kind of complete imbecile lawyers are they hiring down there in Texas?

The same ones that tried to make the world believe that Traxxas invented the wheel I guess? (I kid you not. They really did try to patent the wheel as their own invention!)

[Pablo68]

Kinda glad in retrospect that I bought the majority of my Traxxas stuff second hand.

[moffman]

Like a few people have said this happens in other industries and companies to protect the product brand at all costs and does indeed sound crazy and probably is a stupid path to go down looking at past examples like @Juggular has mention (very interesting about Betamax!).Im working for a company at the moment that is or seemingly going down that self destruction route for explanations unknown only to the narcissistic people at the top! Things which will blatantly hurt the company that everyone can see WILL happen the narcissists making the decisions have a completely different perspective which generally involves self fulfilling money making! 

[simalarion]

My Father had BetaMax, remember it as much better quality as well and you could playbon both side

[Saito2]

I don't truly believe Traxxas is evil in the sadistic sense. I have 3 of their products I purchased used and I personally can't look at them, let alone run them. Its a shame as obviously there are engineers in the company that are invested in making some good products, the the abhorrent business practices are just too much to stomach for me at this point. There may be a Bandit, Stampede and Emaxx for sale shortly. Everybody has their own personal take on situations like this and that's fine. Completely divorcing myself from the brand and no longer supporting them in any way is just what works for me. 

[Busdriver]

I think all of the above is true/relevant depending on which side you’re on. I have one Traxxas product and I have to say I would buy more, especially kits if they did them. At the end of the day I don’t believe they are doing anything illegal, bullying yes but not illegal. The market must decide the rights and wrongs of their methods. I suspect most of the smaller producers will find ways of marketing their products without out mention of Traxxas etc. so not fall foul. Thankfully they were unsuccessful in copyrighting the wheel😜

[alvinlwh]

.

[Gebbly]

Its hard to say what Traxxas' motivations were with these cease and desists without getting information from within the company. I would agree that what they did is perfectly legal. If their intention was to stop products being sold that misled customers to believe they were from the original manufacturer that seems fine. If they were trying to squash the 3rd party market in favour of their own accessories then thats (again legal but) rather unpleasant business practice.

A lot of markets are similar with regards to not using the manufacturers name in the product name, for example in the 1:1 car market if you need a new BMW headlight for an M135 you can search online for "BMW M135 headlight" and you will find websites which will list headlights "compatible with BMW 1 series" and the individual items will be called things like "Bobs headlight A1234" and the description may list vehicles that the headlight is compatible with. Adopting this practice of naming 3rd party components and altering the websites to have the "Compatible with Wild Willy II" section, for example, seems fair.

However, what I find very unfair is how Traxxas' went about things. Rather than contacting the companies affected and asking them to make changes to their site and perhaps removing the products in question from their website until the changes were made. They seem to have contacted the web hosting services and had entire company websites taken down. For me this is where Traxxas' actions moved into the "evil" category.

[Kowalski86]

1 hour ago, alvinlwh said:

TBH, Tamiya is not much better off with their MAP (or distributor set/enforced? RRP in the UK) to "protect" their brand "value" either.

Enforcing prices is a little bit different than attacking the aftermarket.

That said there was a brief time when Tamiya went after reproduction parts and decals, but again straight up copying is different than aftermarket parts.

[GeeWings]

Yes, nothing illegal. Just ******* poor behaviour.