A matter of scale.

[junkmunki 828]

I was looking at my Toyota Celica Gr.B the other day, and marveling at the technical detail. It got me to wondering why it was made in 1/12, and not 1/10. Had it been made bigger, would it have been any better?

I had a 1/8 scale Kyosho burns for a while, and i loved the fact it was large and was great to drive, whereas the 1/12 off road models tended to suffer a bit.

So, excluding the really big stuff, what is your favorite scale to build and drive?

J

[bRIBEGuy 2198]

The "scale" thing in RC actually really bugs me, as it's not very close as the best of times, and at the worst it's just an arbitrary number.  You can take 3 different 1:10 scale trucks (for example, Tamiya, Traxxas, and Axial) and not only will they all be grossly;y different in size compared to each other, but none of them will be 1:10th the scale of a 1:1. 

Now, sill rant aside, I would have to say that 1:10 is probably the sweet spot for most of the running I do personally.  Bigger is fun, but requires "more" (space, batteries, challenging terrain), and smaller is cool, but can be limiting.

Switching BACK to rant mode, I almost think we have too many "active" scales in the hobby right now.  1:35, 1:24, 1:18, 1:12, 1:10, 1:8, 1:7, 1:6, AND 1:5 just seems excessive.  I kinda wish that 1:10 didn't take predominance, as in a lot of way, I think having 1:12 and 1:8 would be a better balanced mix.

[Pylon80 1011]

I once researched details and dimensions on the 1973 Porsche 911 RSR and compared to my Tamiya body. Turned out to be very accurate (i.e. not distorted to fit the chassis) but close to 1:9 scale, not 1:10 It IS big !

[Willy iine 16942]

For me 1:10 scale is fine for display and driving, and the m-chassis (Mini Coopers) accommodates the old vintage car sizes to the 1:10 scale sedans.  Off-road buggies in 1:10 is also fine..nice and compact.  I think the TurboScorpion is a bit on the big side as it is not a true 1:10 and running oversized 2.2 wheels and tires, longer wheel base.. but does well with larger bumps and random terrain obviously.  

Anything smaller would need to be Mini-Z size with dedicated track for inside the house.   1:14, 1:16, 1:18 scale are an odd ball size, too big for indoor driving and yet too small for outdoor driving (unless crawlers and slow moving off road cars). 

I use to drive a SuperNitro (HPI nitro) on random parking lots and it did well with small rocks and pebbles usually found on unprepped lots. 

[Kowalski86 1600]

I like what the industry calls "1/10" scale, even if it isn't always accurate. Big enough to be easy to work on, small enough to fit on my work desk and be easy to carry around.

[alvinlwh 4681]

Never mind the accuracy of "scale" for RC, some of the "models" don't even exist. I mean, is there are real Thunder Dragon? Or a real TD4? How about a Hotshot? So these are 1/10 scale "models" of what?

Now, onto real things that do exists, very few RC cars match with the real thing if you take a ruler to it. The most basic measurement, wheelbase. Very rarely do the RC wheelbase matches the real world one.

[markbt73 4772]

I just stick with models that take a standard-size 540/05 motor, a normal-size battery pack, and standard electronics. I just want to be able to interchange stuff, and not need special-sized gear for a bigger or smaller car. I don't care what they say the actual scale number is.

[skom25 471]

1:10 and rest is I believe just like "indicator" to which group it belongs.

Think about that:

You have 1:10 chassis and want to buy body. Celica will be e.g. 1/12, Prosche 934 1:9 etc. How would you know what to buy?

Most RCs are not based on real cars. If they are, probably are fitted to chassis. It is better to have body which fits chassis, than dimensions correct body which does not fit.

RCs are not static models. I believe that there are many bigger faults on simple lexan bodies, than little bit out of scale dimensions.

[Nikko85 2864]

I go for 1:12 scale real world size as I like my cars to look good together as a collection. The means wheelbases of around 190 - 225 mm.

Large enough for real world fun, especially as I like trucks and monster trucks, but small enough to go on a shelf and backpack. A traxxas slash or 330 mm crawler might be more impressive but I've no where to fit it. I can drive my 1/12 trial trucks indoors, but they can also go on the grass or BMX track. 

As an aside, the scale thing is strange. I think there are two things going on. Firstly, I think you have to reflect it's going to tell you the rough size of a chassis, as per that manufacturer. For example the Blackfoot and a Monster Beetle would be different scales in the real world, as a Ford Ranger is much bigger than a beetle. If you tried to be accurate with scale it would be a nightmare, you'd have to sell a 1/11 Blackfoot on the same chassis as a 1/9 Monster Beetle and it would just confuse people as they'd be the same size. And lots of RC cars are not real vehicles.

The second is scale inflation. As an example, always on the lookout for 1/12 cars, I saw the Losi 1/16 drag Chevelle is in fact a perfect 1:12 scale - why? Because the 1/10 they sell is actually 330 mm wheelbase, making it very close to 1/8, and so the 1/16 is scaled up accordingly. For some reason scales that we used to call 1/8 are increasingly being used as 1/10 by a few makers, which is why your traxxas Defender is much bigger than a Clodbuster. 

 

 

 

[Willy iine 16942]

@Nikko85 Interesting info on the Losi 1/16.   

So even RC cars are getting bigger!  

[IXLR8 446]

19 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

I once researched details and dimensions on the 1973 Porsche 911 RSR and compared to my Tamiya body. Turned out to be very accurate (i.e. not distorted to fit the chassis) but close to 1:9 scale, not 1:10 It IS big !

I believe you are correct about the RSR -- I have one sitting in front of me at the moment and next to the 934 and GT2.  I'm guessing the RSR's overall scale was increased slightly to fit the longer TT-02 wheelbase.  Anyway, if standard touring car wheels look a bit small on an RSR (I think they do), it's probably because the body is large.  I'm giving serious thought to modeling a set of Fuchs wheels and having them printed at a slightly larger scale to better match the body - but where would I find tires to fit them?

By the way, I've been looking closely at that Tamiya GT2 body and comparing dimension to a full scale 3d model and it's almost a perfect 1/10 rendition.  Maybe a tiny bit wide but otherwise it's perfect.

Anyway, back to junkmunki's question.   I have a few 1/6 RTR RC's which are a hoot to drive.  I like to build and collect the more common 1/10 scale versions.

[Pylon80 1011]

1 hour ago, IXLR8 said:

I believe you are correct about the RSR -- I have one sitting in front of me at the moment and next to the 934 and GT2.  I'm guessing the RSR's overall scale was increased slightly to fit the longer TT-02 wheelbase.  Anyway, if standard touring car wheels look a bit small on an RSR (I think they do), it's probably because the body is large.  I'm giving serious thought to modeling a set of Fuchs wheels and having them printed at a slightly larger scale to better match the body - but where would I find tires to fit them?

By the way, I've been looking closely at that Tamiya GT2 body and comparing dimension to a full scale 3d model and it's almost a perfect 1/10 rendition.  Maybe a tiny bit wide but otherwise it's perfect.

Anyway, back to junkmunki's question.   I have a few 1/6 RTR RC's which are a hoot to drive.  I like to build and collect the more common 1/10 scale versions.

The biggest shortcomings in scale rc cars are almost always the wheels and tires. The RSR in particular would need much higher sidewalls to look realistic. Here's an RSR from the Penske museum down from where I live. The shortest wheelbase Tamiya could do in the TT-01/02 is 251mm and so they chose (rightly) to make it really huge rather than distorting it as you said @IXLR8.

 

[Nikko85 2864]

1 hour ago, Willy iine said:

@Nikko85 Interesting info on the Losi 1/16.   

So even RC cars are getting bigger!  

Yes, it looks really cool, although I have don't have space to run it, my favourite PS1 game was Driver, and it really evokes that feel. 239 mm wheelbase, so perfect for my collection and almost bang on 1/12.

PS, why don't they do pursuit RC races where the car starts half a lap behind, with a getaway car and a police car? And then have lots of little things for them to drive into, like the car chase in Blues Brothers. When you think of all the fun you could have with RC races (shortcuts, ice/slip hazards on the track in sections, mini golf style obstacles) it's amazing people just watch really boring looking buggies hug a track. 

[Pylon80 1011]

7 minutes ago, Nikko85 said:

PS, why don't they do pursuit RC races where the car starts half a lap behind, with a getaway car and a police car? And then have lots of little things for them to drive into, like the car chase in Blues Brothers. When you think of all the fun you could have with RC races (shortcuts, ice/slip hazards on the track in sections, mini golf style obstacles) it's amazing people just watch really boring looking buggies hug a track. 

The drift guys do a lot of games in that spirit. One of them is "anyone who hits anything must stop where he is and becomes an obstacle". Last guy running wins! They start with 20 or so cars and finish with a tiny track clogged by 19 cars the winner has to avoid.

I would probably enjoy joining in but I just can't wrap my head around a gyro having all the fun and counter steering for me 🙄

[rich_f 222]

Tamiya's first 1/10th touring car chassis was the TA01 and the first on-road touring car body to go on it was the Skyline (and parts for the TA01 are even prefixed with 'Skyline', which indicates, to me at least, that the chassis was designed for that body). It just so happens that the TA01 wheelbase is pretty much precisely 1/10th that of the full-size Skyline. So maybe that is what decided the '1/10th' chassis size, and then all subsequent bodies to use the (nominally) 1/10th chassis needed to have their actual scales tweaked a little to fit, resulting in lots of slightly off-scale models. 

And onto that term 'model'

On 5/18/2023 at 9:46 PM, alvinlwh said:

Never mind the accuracy of "scale" for RC, some of the "models" don't even exist. I mean, is there are real Thunder Dragon? Or a real TD4? How about a Hotshot? So these are 1/10 scale "models" of what?

- you know, it's possible to have a model of something that doesn't really exist. Like the starship enterprise, or the millennium falcon. Or even think about engineers and architects making models before the real thing exists - and it may never exist - but it's still a scale model. 

[Big Jon 634]

I like 1/10 scale, including M-chassis.They’re the right size for performance, capabilities, storage, and space requirements, and don’t require oddball or expensive electronics. 

In the late ‘80s, I raced 1/12, which was tremendous fun on carpet. Those little pan cars weren’t fun at all out in the street, though.

I raced 1/8 nitro buggies in the ‘00s, what a blast! Well, a blast on track or if I could find a big open area. Not much fun in the yard or the street - too big, too fast, and when you hit something, you hit it HARD and break stuff.

Now, I can run any of my 1/10 stuff anywhere I want. If I want to tear up the yard or the street in front of the house, I can really have fun. I don’t have to find a good spot or drive to a track, although I can if I want to run with more people.

The size is easy to work on, too, unlike the minis and micros that I can barely see anymore or the huge scales that take up a whole bench.

Also, 1/10 tires are CHEAP compared to 1/8.

[junkmunki 828]

On 5/18/2023 at 9:46 PM, alvinlwh said:

I mean, is there are real Thunder Dragon? Or a real TD4? How about a Hotshot? So these are 1/10 scale "models" of what?

The result of an afternoon spent smoking pot in the design office?

J

[junkmunki 828]

16 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

The biggest shortcomings in scale rc cars are almost always the wheels and tires

A case point here would be the Lancia Rally and Audi Quattro. If they were scaled up to real world sizes, the wheel size would make them monster trucks.

J

[alvinlwh 4681]

1 hour ago, junkmunki said:

The result of an afternoon spent smoking pot in the design office?

J

Or you can take the view a complete valid model of some make-believe thing that do not exist. 

[naturbo2000 933]

21 hours ago, Nikko85 said:

The second is scale inflation. As an example, always on the lookout for 1/12 cars, I saw the Losi 1/16 drag Chevelle is in fact a perfect 1:12 scale - why? Because the 1/10 they sell is actually 330 mm wheelbase, making it very close to 1/8, and so the 1/16 is scaled up accordingly. For some reason scales that we used to call 1/8 are increasingly being used as 1/10 by a few makers, which is why your traxxas Defender is much bigger than a Clodbuster. 

Indeed. I'm currently working on a 288 GTO which Tamiya call 1/12. I've seen other people call it a 1/14 and poking around such 1/14 scale (toy grade) manufacturers tech specs, that would seem to be the case.

But then go run the numbers and the Tamiya actually comes out as 1/11.95 across all dimensions. It really is a pretty good scale representation (modulo tyre width/height). So Tamiya were being honest and everyone else for some reason decides 1/14 is the number to quote...

Back to the original question. I think outdoor running really does suit 1/10. Having just built an M08 as a 1/12 runner, I really do like the smaller scale, but I know it's a car I'll actually use less. Somewhere along the way I want to build one of the 1/14 trucks .I'll answer with preferring to build the smaller scales and drive 1/10.

[BuggyGuy 1062]

I really like 12th for on road, but 10th for off-road. 

12th off road is often to low and small to be stable, so it has to be 10th for that for me.

I find 10th on road to be a little too fast and not alook as scale.