TT-02B motor

[skom25 1245]

Hi,

I cannot decide and probably without opinions, I will not be able to do this.

Which motor will be better for TT-02B used on road? Torque Tuned or Sport Tuned?

I have DT-03 with 17T pinion and TT motor. Gear ratio is around 9.28. It feels sloooow. I mean Top Speed, because acceleration is quite ok. I tried 19T pinion and it was much better. Sport Tuned motor was also fine but went too hot.

Stock gear ratio with 17T pinion in TT-02B is 10.78 if I remember correctly. I assume, that with TT motor it will be super slow. I wanted to use bigger pinion but I cannot find any in my area. Only aluminium, which I do not want to use.

Will ST motor be better in that siutation? It has more RPM so Top Speed will be higher.

I installed fan above motor, so maybe it will not be so hot.

Help me to decide, because I do not want to go for first run, back home and change motor...

[Sogogi 3217]

If you want significant improvement on speed, i would recommend super stock motors 

[Kowalski86 3034]

I'd try the sport tuned and if it runs cool enough perhaps grab the a high speed gear set hop up if you don't have one already.

The TT-02B accelerates quick but it doesn't have much top end speed, not without a bigger pinion (and raising motor temps), or running a more powerful motor (and risk stripping the rear diff gears).

You can get upgraded metal rear diff gears, but that's a whole other rabbit hole that I'd just avoid entirely.

If you want to play it safe go with the Torque Tuned, it will be a bit slow on the top end but it works well in the TT-02B.

 

[Kpowell911 1899]

31 minutes ago, Sogogi said:

If you want significant improvement on speed, i would recommend super stock motors 

I agree, Im very impressed with the Super Stocks!

[skom25 1245]

Is Super Stock hotter than Sport Tuned? Does it work fine with Tamiya battery connector?

I am almost sure that I will not use it but it is good to know.

[Kpowell911 1899]

10 minutes ago, skom25 said:

Is Super Stock hotter than Sport Tuned? Does it work fine with Tamiya battery connector?

I am almost sure that I will not use it but it is good to know.

I wouldnt use Tamiya connectors with a silver can personally let alone anything hotter. Theyre terrible and theres no need to use them in 2023. But yes, the Super Stocks are 23t

[skom25 1245]

Understand. In DT-03 with TT connector is in worst scenario just warm, nothing more. Maybe even not warm, just little warmer than rest of chassis parts.

Are HC pinions as good as steel?

[Kowalski86 3034]

36 minutes ago, skom25 said:

Is Super Stock hotter than Sport Tuned? Does it work fine with Tamiya battery connector?

I am almost sure that I will not use it but it is good to know.

It will work with a Tamiya/Molex connector, but not as effectively.

12 minutes ago, skom25 said:

Understand. In DT-03 with TT connector is in worst scenario just warm, nothing more. Maybe even not warm, just little warmer than rest of chassis parts.

Are HC pinions as good as steel?

HC Pinions are a good middle ground, more durable than stock and lighter than steel.

[skom25 1245]

Good to know!

Unfortunately, only 18T is available. I am not sure if it is worth to buy it...

There is also 19T steel from Carson. I do not know this brand too much to be honest and it is quite expensive.

[Juggular 4964]

3 hours ago, skom25 said:

It feels sloooow.

I'd go with a brushless.  If you said, "slow" or even "sloow," I may have recommended Sport Tuned, which is about 30% improvement. But since you added "ooo" in "sloooow," you might as well go with a brushless. 

If you have a Tamiya dual ESC, you only need to get a 13.5t motor for about $50 which is about the price of Super Stock.  The RPM isn't better than Super Stock.  However, it has ample torque.  If you use a taller gearing, it can go just as fast, if not faster than Super Stock.  You'd want to use a steel pinion though.  Also you'd lose a lot of oomph if you use Tamiya connectors.  If you want speed in any motor, you might want to upgrade to XT60 or Deans.  

[Torque Tuned (15% improvement) is a sales gimmick in my opinion. I would never use it, unless a used RC car comes with it.]

 

[Kowalski86 3034]

7 minutes ago, skom25 said:

Good to know!

Unfortunately, only 18T is available. I am not sure if it is worth to buy it...

There is also 19T steel from Carson. I do not know this brand too much to be honest and it is quite expensive.

I'd stick with the 17T for now and get some running time in, then figure out what needs to be done.

[Kowalski86 3034]

Just now, Juggular said:

[Torque Tuned (15% improvement) is a sales gimmick in my opinion. I would never use it, unless a used RC car comes with it.]

Ive run my share of silver cans and Torque Tuneds, the difference is barely noticeable. The only real one being the cool "Torque Tuned" sticker on the side.

[Juggular 4964]

Also, ample torque means 19T pinion isn't a problem at all.  My guess is that even with a 19t pinion, a brushless would run cool.  

 

[skom25 1245]

4 minutes ago, Juggular said:

I'd go with a brushless.  If you said, "slow" or even "sloow," I may have recommended Sport Tuned, which is about 30% improvement. But since you added "ooo" in "sloooow," you might as well go with a brushless. 

If you have a Tamiya dual ESC, you only need to get a 13.5t motor for about $50 which is about the price of Super Stock.  The RPM isn't better than Super Stock.  However, it has ample torque.  If you use a taller gearing, it can go just as fast, if not faster than Super Stock.  You'd want to use a steel pinion though.  Also you'd lose a lot of oomph if you use Tamiya connectors.  If you want speed in any motor, you might want to upgrade to XT60 or Deans.  

[Torque Tuned (15% improvement) is a sales gimmick in my opinion. I would never use it, unless a used RC car comes with it.]

 

Hmm, nice explanation based on ooo 🤣

I have HW 1060 and at least for summer, I want to stay with Tamiya connectors. I do not have time to change them.

[Kowalski86 3034]

8 minutes ago, skom25 said:

Hmm, nice explanation based on ooo 🤣

I have HW 1060 and at least for summer, I want to stay with Tamiya connectors. I do not have time to change them.

In that case, I'd suggest running the sport tuned with the stock pinion. Just get come practice in and see if you like it. I wouldn't go up in pinion without seeing how the motor temps are with the 17T.

One thing to keep in mind is that any 540 brushed motor will work if you end up wanting more power, not just Tamiyas offerings. But I wouldn't up the power without getting some practice in and soldering a better connector.

[Juggular 4964]

I also second Sport Tuned, it's always a safe choice. (Sport Tuned is my go-to upgrade even after 3 dozen builds.) 

Here is a list of RPMs:

Silver can: 14,000

Torque Tuned: 16,000

Sport Tuned : 18,500 

Super Stock :26,000 (however, I'd recommend using lower gearing to keep the RPM alive--which means it will never really run at 26,000.)

Above are bench tests. All brushed motors would lose about 20-30% of RPM depending on the weight of the chassis and gearing. 

[For future projects] 13.5t Brushless: about 20,000 - 22,000. (But you can use a taller gear ratio. Brushless would lose only about 10% of RPM due to stronger torque--which means it would run similar to Super Stock without running hot and also using less juice.) 

If you choose to go with Super Stock, you might consider ball bearings. RPM increase is small (about 500 RPM).  However, it uses a lot less electricity (longer runtime). And it would stay cooler. Amp draw would go down noticeably. (Something like 1.8A down to 1.2A if I remember correctly).  Super Stock's longevity could be shorter with brass bushings (the faster the motor, the more the axle would wear). But not when you install bearings.  

(@ChrisRx718 had linked this video about 3 years ago.) 

 

[alvinlwh 5895]

I second the suggestions for one of the Z's. I have a TZ in a Dragon, started off with Tamiya connections on the motor and battery ends and NiMHs, no problem. Only changed the battery connectors to Dean's when I got hold of lipos and then XT60 when I find Dean's are just too loose and bullets for the motor after a year of running like that. Used an Autosport20 ESC so your 1060 will handle it no problem at all (but not the TBLEs!).

I had ran it really hot when I used a largest pinion (17T, FDR 6.77) for that chassis and it got really hot. I had since reduced it to the second smallest pinion (14T, FDR 8.23) and the motor is happier with that. 

I think I said before, no 540 are happy in my DT, they all got really hot. However, I do run it on grass. I had since used a 550 which is better (quite hot vs burning hot).

If you are just gunning for speed, I will suggest the speed gear set and larger pinions. I once got 40mph out of a car (different, not TT) with a silver can and messing with the gearing. So you can get quite a bit of speed out of a silver can but they will not last very long.

[skom25 1245]

You really interested me with Super Stock, but I am not sure because of one, main reason: price.

In my LHS Torque Tuned costs 70 PLN, Sport Tuned 73 PLN and Super Stock RZ 185 PLN. If I add bearings costs, I will be able to buy three Sports Tuned in the same price.

I am not going for speed, because I run on short road courses. Only about 10- 15 meters of straight, sometimes less. DT-03 with 17T pinion and TT feels little bit slow. I mean it aceelerates fast and than nothing happens. TT-02B with 4WD, 10.78 gear ration and TT motor probably will accelerate even faster.

I do not want to go crazy with speeds, because there is no need to do this. I am not fan of going straight and just watch car.

6 hours ago, Juggular said:

Something like 1.8A down to 1.2A if I remember correctl

That is the part I do not understand. You wrote that Amps for SS will go down from 1.8 to 1.2. When I checked ST box, there is information about 12 Amps. TT says 10 Amps.

What is on the box? Value during peak or what?

Someone wrote that Tamiya connectors are good for max 15 Amps. How would I know that I will not go above that value?

Sorry for the same again, but electricity is like black magic for me. I want to understand all Topics.

[OoALEJOoO 3127]

@skom25 I believe the amps being quoted as going down from 1.8 to 1.2 are idle amps, meaning when the motor is left to free-spin without being attached to any load. The 12Amp and 10Amp for ST and TT respectively, is their power consumption at peak efficiency (check the graph on the box that shows how current goes down as motor speed goes up). Upgrading the motor bushings to ball-bearings is a good idea.

I am running currently a Super Stock BZ on my TT-02B, setup for street use, paired with a HW 1060 ESC. I have a 30x30mm fan on the ESC, and a motor cooler + 30x30mm fan on the motor. I can run full NiMh packs on hot weather without any problem. Running a 19T steel pinion, with stock 70T spur. I don't think the high-speed gear set is needed for a TT-02B since the 70T spur + big wheels can give an FDR up to 7.28 (when using 25T pinion) which is plenty tall for a buggy. This buggy has quite good racing performance compared to my touring cars. More info:

Hotlap Ranking - Tamiya Chassis - General discussions - Tamiyaclub.com

[skom25 1245]

I checked RZ box and I am still confused.

It shows around 100 Amps.

[OoALEJOoO 3127]

@skom25 There are 3 curves on the graph, thus 3 graphs in one, with their values shown on each of the 3 vertical axes. From left to right on this axis:

• Efficiency: Dome-shaped curve. Starts at zero , peaks at about 75%, ends at zero.
• Current Consumption (amps): Upward straight line. Starts at idle ends at maximum (I guess that's the 100 you mention).
• RPM: Downward straight line. Starts at maximum, ends at zero.

From the above it follows:

• On maximum torque (3000 gf-cm): Far right on the graph. This is zero speed (locked rotor), maximum power consumption (indeed around 100amps perhaps), zero efficiency (no work, rotor is locked).
• On zero torque: Far left on the graph. This is maximum speed (advertised 27,500 rpm), minimum power consumption (idle), zero efficiency (shaft is free-spinning so no work done).
• Best efficiency point: The tip of the efficiency dome. This is where you get the highest power/losses ratio (but not necessarily the lowest absolute heat as often misunderstood). The RZ is advertised to have 500gf-cm (0.049N-m), you can see that the peak is right there at this value, the RPM is around 22,500 and current around 18amps. It is at this best efficiency point that the ST gets 12amps and the TT 10amps.

[one_hit 1046]

@skom25 the price of the super stock at 185 PLN seems excessive compared to the TT and ST. I think for that money, you can get a brushless motor. You already have a TBLE-02S in your DT-03. You only need the motor and sensor cable. But again, the Tamiya connectors in your setup will hold you back. 

[skom25 1245]

Ok, I started to consider Super Stock but... let's hold on. I am total newbie in RC, still have time to go faster! More speed equals more danger. I want to avoid that. DT-03 with 17T pinion and Sport Tuned felt fine, no need to go faster.

Thank you for all replies but I have to stop a little. First reason is above, second is money. It gets very expensive super fast.

Summarizing:

Torque Tuned: safest choice, low Top Speed

Sport Tuned: should be fine, but can get little hot. More RPMs should give similar performance to DT-03 with Torque Tuned. Fan above motor should improve temperature much in comparison to DT-03.

Super Stock: very fast but also very hot. Expensive. Bearings are good Hop Up. It will work fine on Tamiya Connectors but better to avoid them.

At this moment, I have two competitors:

TT: I can go up max to 18T pinion

ST: 17T pinion

 

[ChrisRx718 4470]

Just a heads up, I hit the thermal shut-off on the 1060 ESC with a BZ in a DF02 (basically the same as a TT02B). 

I was running 2S lipo and on grass. Basically I think the current draw was too much, the 4wd drivetrain coupled with a claggy surface put a lot of strain on the esc.

Noticed that @OoALEJOoO is running a fan, that's probably a worthy investment!

I went for a cheap unsensored brushless setup and I'm disappointed with the low speed cogging. Needs 3S to overcome/ hide the issue, at which point it's a bit too much for the "basic" Tamiya buggy (would benefit from a slipper clutch).

[alvinlwh 5895]

25 minutes ago, skom25 said:

At this moment, I have two competitors:

TT: I can go up max to 18T pinion

ST: 17T pinion

There are also the DT, LT and U/GT which are around similar speeds to these.