SRB steering

[Busdriver 6437]

Is there a better way of connecting the uprights to the servo using something more substantial and secure than the stock ball joints/rods

[Grumpy pants 5503]

Maybe worth considering Super Champ steering rods which have small screws to hold them into the uprights.

[Grumpy pants 5503]

10 hours ago, Busdriver said:

Is there a better way of connecting the uprights to the servo using something more substantial and secure than the stock ball joints/rods

I can show you my Super Champ when we meet up 👍

[Mad Ax 10586]

I drilled out the steering arm ends and tapped them so I could screw in the beefier ball from later Tamiyas.  For good measure, there's enough thread poking out to get a little nut on.  That way I can run stronger modern rod ends and thicker rods.

[Grumpy pants 5503]

3 hours ago, Mad Ax said:

I drilled out the steering arm ends and tapped them so I could screw in the beefier ball from later Tamiyas.  For good measure, there's enough thread poking out to get a little nut on.  That way I can run stronger modern rod ends and thicker rods.

This would be a cheaper easier route to follow 😎

[Mokei Kagaku 2934]

On 6/22/2023 at 10:55 PM, Grumpy pants said:

Maybe worth considering Super Champ steering rods which have small screws to hold them into the uprights.

I fully agree! The Special Rod End Set (50144) is my favourite for the SRB steering. Durable, reliable, relatively little slop and scale looks. 50144 was released about the same time as the Lola RM.1 and racers used them for the SRB even before the Super Champ came with them standard. I've seen only one broken one ever, by the way. They are a bit hard to source now, but well worth it, imho.

[Grumpy pants 5503]

2 hours ago, Mokei Kagaku said:

I fully agree! The Special Rod End Set (50144) is my favourite for the SRB steering. Durable, reliable, relatlvely little slop and scale looks. 50144 was released about the same time as the Lola RM.1 and racers used them for the SRB even before the Super Champ came with them standard. I've seen only one broken one ever, by the way. They are a bit hard to source now, but well worth it, imho.

It is a similar set up on the early Wild Willy and Quattro chassis isn’t it @Mokei Kagaku? 

[Mokei Kagaku 2934]

23 hours ago, Grumpy pants said:

It is a similar set up on the early Wild Willy and Quattro chassis isn’t it @Mokei Kagaku? 

Yes. The Special Rod Ends (as Tamiya called them) came with

58021 Lola T333
58022 Datsun 280ZX
58025 VW Golf Turbo
58026 Renault 5 Turbo
58028 Toyota Hilux
58029 Blazing Blazer
58031 Brabham BT50
58032 Tornado
58033 Ford C100
58034 Super Champ
58035 Wild Willy
58036 Audi quattro
58037 Opel Ascona
58039 Willy's Wheeler

I can understand that Tamiya for cost reasons didn't use them on the cheaper models (58023, 58024, 58030,58038) after the introduction with the Racing Master Mk.I and I also understand that stopping using them after 3mm steering rods with robust plastic ball ends were introduced made sense.  However, I can't possibly understand why the 58027 Ford Ranger didn't get them!

 

[Grumpy pants 5503]

This is great information ⬆️ @Mokei Kagaku, thank you.

Next question….is there any value in using the Super Champ servo saver instead of the normal SRB set up?

I’m pretty sure I have seen it used before, it just requires a body post change. 

[Mokei Kagaku 2934]

2 hours ago, Grumpy pants said:

Next question….is there any value in using the Super Champ servo saver instead of the normal SRB set up?

I’m pretty sure I have seen it used before, it just requires a body post change. 

The Super Champ servo saver has a better design and is made of nylon. The regular SRB servo saver is of ABS(?) (at least not nylon and definitely more brittle) and of an inferior design. The lack of bearings is also a drawback. For the light running SRB's mostly are used for now and with strong servos powered by BEC's (and not sub 3kg/cm at 4.8V NiCd or 6V drycells), the less robust design and the much higher friction of the regular SRB servo saver isn't such a big problem, but it really was back in the day. My first one did break in the summer of 1980, while on holiday far away from any hobbyshop, so I remember it well. One of the spring ends wore a hole in the plastic part (E1 or E4), resulting in steering only in one direction. Also, the tips of E4 and E1 going into E2, would frequently break off and the servo saver would seize when dirt collected between the inside of the servo saver and the body post. After all, Tamiya designed the servo saver for the F1-cars and probably would have designed it differently if they had started from scratch with the SRB. Considering that 58021 Lola T333 got the "Super Champ" servo saver design not long after the SRB was introduced, makes it not quite unlikely that the SRB would have had the Super Champ servo saver from the start if they hadn't had the F1 servo saver readily available as a carry-over when the SRB was designed.

I've had the Super Champ servo saver in my SRB's since around 1984-1985. First with a regular 1150 ball bearing at the bottom, later with an 1150 thrust bearing. When the F201 was released, Tamiya also released an optional aluminium steering bellcrank (49370, photo below), which was quite suitable for the SRB (the "input" arm on the other side though!). It was hard to source, so I managed to get just two, and that killed my plan.  I've also tried with the aluminium servo saver that Kyosho released for the re-re Scorpion, but didn't achieve acceptable results. About 2 years ago, I decided to modify the steering again with Tamiya Hi-Torque servo saver on the servo, ditching the "saver" function of the Super Champ servo saver to allow for proper ball bearings on both the top and the bottom. So, I removed the spring and center aluminium cylinder and spring tensioner, drilled a 10.9mm hole through both the top and bottom nylon parts and sandwiched an aluminium spacer (5mm inner, 6mm outer diameter) between two 1150 ball bearings. Using a Super Champ front body post with a stop ring at the top and the bottom, I could easily adjust the play of the servo saver-become-bellcrank. To ensure that the stop rings don't get in contact with any part of the ball bearings except the inner rings, I shimmed the stop rings. I use left side (short) Fox/Novafox steering rods because they coincidentally have the right length when used with Special Rod Ends on the SRB. 

As for using Special Rod Ends on the SRB in general, they are unfortunately slightly less suitable for the re-re as the uprights have 2.6mm threaded holes instead of the 2mm threaded holes of the original uprights, but with longer (2mm) screws and a nut on the other side of the upright steering arm, it still works pretty well.

I'm not claiming that the way I've done the steering mechanism on my SRB is the best, but it works well with little friction, is robust, cheap and relatively scale

 

[Mokei Kagaku 2934]

It's currently impossible to edit the previous post without getting an error message and the changes not being saved, so here is a correction and an additional photo:

correction: The F201 bellcrank DOESN'T have the input arm on the other side. I must have mixed up with another similar problem I've had with a different model.

 

 

[Dan1891 228]

On 6/24/2023 at 2:52 PM, Mokei Kagaku said:

Yes. The Special Rod Ends (as Tamiya called them) came with

58021 Lola T333
58022 Datsun 280ZX
58025 VW Golf Turbo
58026 Renault 5 Turbo
58028 Toyota Hilux
58029 Blazing Blazer
58031 Brabham BT50
58032 Tornado
58033 Ford C100
58034 Super Champ
58035 Wild Willy
58036 Audi quattro
58037 Opel Ascona
58039 Willy's Wheeler

I can understand that Tamiya for cost reasons didn't use them on the cheaper models (58023, 58024, 58030,58038) after the introduction with the Racing Master Mk.I and I also understand that stopping using them after 3mm steering rods with robust plastic ball ends were introduced made sense.  However, I can't possibly understand why the 58027 Ford Ranger didn't get them!

 

Aha!

So i have the Tamiya Special Rod Ends in my old Datsun 280ZX then?

 

[Scorchio 212]

I've just re built the old SRB Rover with a Lipo box with integrated vertical servo mount and gone direct with servo mounted saver. Hopefully posting update this week.

No use on RR for obvious reasons but would be OK on an SS.

I can agree the SC saver is far better than the standard SS setup, and much more elegant servo layout possible. I had so much fun with this one some time ago (with daft side nerf bars removed).

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=57386&id=911

[SuperChamp82 745]

@Mokei Kagaku is probably the only one I’d defer to on the Super Champ 😂

Superb insight - as ever sir / thank you 👏

I do stand by my layman / racer’s view that  SC ‘upgrades’ are a high maintenance option though ?

Especially without obvious CRP / Dirt Burner plastic or engineering to reduce consequent breakages 👍

[Grumpy pants 5503]

On 6/23/2023 at 12:11 PM, Mokei Kagaku said:

I fully agree! The Special Rod End Set (50144) is my favourite for the SRB steering. Durable, reliable, relatively little slop and scale looks. 50144 was released about the same time as the Lola RM.1 and racers used them for the SRB even before the Super Champ came with them standard. I've seen only one broken one ever, by the way. They are a bit hard to source now, but well worth it, imho.

I bought a NIP set of 50144 last week, there’s not surprisingly that aren’t  many complete sets out there 😂

Anyhoo - gifted them to @Busdriveryesterday for his up and coming MK1 Sand Scorcher project 🥳

[Mokei Kagaku 2934]

On 7/4/2023 at 11:29 PM, SuperChamp82 said:

@Mokei Kagaku is probably the only one I’d defer to on the Super Champ 😂

Superb insight - as ever sir / thank you 👏

I do stand by my layman / racer’s view that  SC ‘upgrades’ are a high maintenance option though ?

Especially without obvious CRP / Dirt Burner plastic or engineering to reduce consequent breakages 👍

In my humble opinion, how and whether to modify an SRB depends a lot of the intended purpose of the model. For the true nostalgic experience, running a Sand Scorcher or Buggy Champ "out of the box" can surely be fun, even with all the flaws and weaknesses. On the other extreme, when maximum durability and performance is the goal, SC upgrades surely aren't enough, as I think you also indicate. I now see my SRB's more or less as scale models, so I avoid modifications that makes the models look less authentic, even when durability and/or performance suffer from it. This means that the only SC upgrades that I use, are the hardened steel front suspension pins, special rod ends, steel universal joints and servo saver.

Also, all my SRB's have CRP rear axles, Thorp front suspension ball cups, stainless steel fasteners, radio box replaced with an SC-inspired radio deck based on the F103 chassis, and depending on body, RC Channel or CRP rear cage and RC Channel or Lightningrapid front bumper/cage. 

[yellowcat 123]

Here is my steering set up. I used Du Bro ball links.