58727 pajero on cw-01 chassis release

[Kowalski86 3983]

50 minutes ago, Ziddan said:

Still need to see if it wheelies out of the box, if it doesnt then it seems to me like its intended as something like 2 wd trail truck, rather than a fully offroad or stunt car, it might even be relatively capable in a trail capacity with some stiff grease was put in the diff for some limited slip action.

Thata an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how well a CW-01 will work on a trail with how low the transmission will sit, on something with Hornet sized wheels/tires.

To lock the diff, you'll need a very, very stiff putty. The CW/Hornet diff is completely open and anything in it will wear off quickly. I could see Tamiya offering a hop-up locker in time.

[Ziddan 983]

43 minutes ago, Rinskie said:

Hornet's spikies

Just measured and the maximum diameter, spike tip to spike tip, is 85mm so the wheels that come in this kit are 10ishmm larger in diameter.

Setting the hornet as the bar, the 10t pinion+larger wheels of a lunchbox gives .74 of hornet speed.

Doing the same for the size of the wheels in this kit gives .61 of hornet speed.

This does of course not take the torque into account but 10t vs 18t is nearly twice the torque if using the same size wheels.

If we instead were to run this kit wheels with an 18t pinion we would get a theoretical  1.1 of hornet speed.

[Ziddan 983]

16 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

not sure how well a CW-01 will work on a trail with how low the transmission will sit, on something with Hornet sized wheels/tires.

The kit tires+wheels will lift it about 5mm beyond that of hornet tires+wheels, not as much clearance as cars that use a central gearbox and drive shafts down to solid axles but relatively OK i think.

The fact that the tires included are from a cc01/2 (iirc) makes the idea of it being intended for trailing seem more plausible IMO.

It might still be a wheelie car tho, we dont know yet, its just so odd that it hasnt been shown with a wheelie bar, it seems out of character for tamiya to put out a cw01 without one, if its meant to be doing wheelies.

[Saito2 7237]

I've postulated in the past that perhaps the Lunch Box wasn't intended to be a wheelie vehicle from the start. In turning the Pajero into a monster truck, Tamiya placed the battery centrally and as low as possible. There's also no mention of it being a "stunt" vehicle originally on the box or ad copy that I saw in the US BITD. Both the Wild Willy 1 and original Pajero were advertised as stunt vehicles. I always wondered if Tamiya took a prototype Lunchie out for a spin, saw they hadn't exorcised the wheelies passed from its forebearer and thought "oh darn, looks like we'll need to add a wheelie bar!".

That aside, I too, am surprised this new variant lacks one. I'd be surprised if it didn't wheelie, especially with greater torque multiplication from the Lunch Box's small pinion.

 

[Ziddan 983]

35 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

I've postulated in the past that perhaps the Lunch Box wasn't intended to be a wheelie vehicle from the start.

That does seem quite plausible, i looked at the old LB promo video an there isnt a single mention of stunts or wheelies (or the wheelie bar which can be seen in the vid), they call it "A custom sport van" and mention off road capabilities due to the wheels and "advanced suspension" as well as it drawing inspiration from american monster trucks.

Its going to have good torque, yes, but maybe the wheelspeed will turn out to be too low for it to lift the front? We shall see.

[Ziddan 983]

Found some more details:

Hightlighs i take away from that short presentation are:

The 1.9 rims will be around on their own and allow for using different types of tires on classic tamiya cars without adapters or printing rims.

The body is moulded in red, with silver decals for the bumper bits which i guess will be a bonus for some, personally i think just panting will be easier.

[Sogogi 3333]

5 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

Thata an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how well a CW-01 will work on a trail with how low the transmission will sit, on something with Hornet sized wheels/tires.

To lock the diff, you'll need a very, very stiff putty. The CW/Hornet diff is completely open and anything in it will wear off quickly. I could see Tamiya offering a hop-up locker in time.

I have a diff locker (3d printed one) on my gh2 and with larger tire (rock block) it handles trail surprisingly well. It is no 4wd truck, but i do enjoy it while walking on a trail

[Ziddan 983]

7 minutes ago, Sogogi said:

diff locker (3d printed one) on my gh2

Interesting, i guess it still turns alright on dirt but how does it do on asphalt?

[Sogogi 3333]

28 minutes ago, Ziddan said:

Interesting, i guess it still turns alright on dirt but how does it do on asphalt?

On tight turns, it hops a bit which i think is expected for locked diff. That is why i have 2 hoppers.. one for trail, other for dirt/pavement(stock diff) 

[nicherotors 321]

11 hours ago, Rinskie said:

I'm in all the way on this one. In fact I will be placing an order as soon as I get off work. I just dig the looks and can't explain why. I doubt the pinion is a 10 tooth but I may be wrong. Looks hilariously fun. I can see it being painted white with black zebra stripes or cow splotches.

I thought the same with this pic from an old guide book in the back of my mind (the one with the Hotshot on the front).

[Ziddan 983]

Thats very much a safari truck look and seems to sync well with trail driving

This just up:

 

No closed captions yet but someone here might be able to translate some points of interest for the rest of us?

No wheelie bar in sight in official Tamiya upload.

Next to the Pajero they have both a Hornet and a Frog using the rims to show off fitting other tires.

[Nikko85 3764]

I wonder if they are going to put in the hornet pinion to give a car with less torque and no wheelies but a higher top speed?

The wheels are closer in size to hornet rears than an LB so Hornet gearing could make more sense.

I think it looks cool myself, but might be somewhat limited in performance!

 

[Ziddan 983]

2 hours ago, Nikko85 said:

I wonder if they are going to put in the hornet pinion to give a car with less torque and no wheelies but a higher top speed?

If you check the previous page ive highlighted what i think is the LB motor adapter required to fit the 10 tooth pinion and show it in comparison with a hornet, non motor adapted, gearbox and a LB gearbox.

I did some calculations a bit earlier and the short is:

If Hornet speed is 1, then a lunchbox (with its 10t and 115mm diameter wheels) has a speed of .74.

This Pajero kit, by that same calculation (10t and 94mm diameter wheels) has a speed .61

If this kit ran with an 18t pinion we would get a theoretical speed of 1.1 Hornets.
I dont think Tamiya would do that as the CW-01 isnt inherently a speedy chassi.

The Hornet is pretty strong in its stock motor, pinion and wheel configuration, if applied to weight distribution of a cw-01 my guess is that it would wheelie.

The lack of a wheelie bar with this Pajero kit makes me think that the .61 wheel speed means it might not do wheelies, even if the torque should be great.
Doesnt it seem out of character for Tamiya to release a kit that wheelies and would definitely destroy the rear of the body shell in its stock configuration?

EDIT: Im excited for this and for shiggles might try doing the lowride mods to my CW-01 chassi as i have the Pajero kit incoming and could build it up replace my CW-01 chassi after it gets here.

[Ziddan 983]

Ive taking apart and started reassembling the CW-01 chassi i have, leaving out the tallifying bits (and the whole front end as a subassembly, servo, pushrods, complete a-arms etc, just needs the servo screws, a-arms slotted into the tub and shocks reattached on the next chassi) and figuring out details.

Luckily i have some leftovers, such as A arms, as ive printed double wishbones for both my Midnight Beetle and my Sandhopper, which has also left me with spares of those lower front shock attachment brackets, since the printed variants dont use them.

For the front end ive come up with this, two of those brackets, a couple of m3s+locknuts and a leftover TT02 pogo stick for each side and length seems good, i think there is some lack in compressability, there is still space between the top of the A-Arms and the top of the slot in the tub but i will look at that closer as i get the wheels on later.

I have the grasshopper gearbox attachment parts to go on the rear but id of want to have Hornet style articulation, dont have those parts on hand but im going print some, as well as an anti slap brace.

[Ziddan 983]

Alright, so this is a CW-01 without lift parts and with hornet style gearbox mounting+slap brace:

I borrowed the front axles from my sandhopper and the wheels off my Ranger ORV.

Since i went with hornet style gearbox mounting the grasshopper rear pogos wouldnt fit in the regular location, what i did instead was to attach them using leftover suspension u-brackes in the holes for the LB pogos and print modified hornet style lower shock mounts to put on the axle.

In the front i took off the tt02 pogos since they were so stiff and felt like they didnt have enough travel, instead i cut down the tubes on another pair of grasshopper rear tubes and found appropriate length m3 bolts, they mount pretty much like regular LB front pogos, ie open at the top with the bolt head on the top of the tub.

Springs are from some assortment box i have, 0.6x8mm, dunno the length, they are a little light so installed longer ones for a bit of preload.

I can report that neither the Lunchbox or Pumpkin shells fit well on it, the wheels are too large for the wells, rub with very little suspension compression and the rear axle needs to go further back for it to look okay.

Still needs a servo, custom mount for it, servo saver/horn and pushrods but that is a project for tomorrow, gotta get to bed as its past midnight here.

[Rinskie 851]

Per Andy Robinson on YouTube, he says the pinion is a standard 10t pinion. He did an unboxing and was nice enough to answer the inquiry. This seriously impacts my enthusiasm for this kit. Small tires with a small pinion and no wheelie bar seems to be the perfect equation for a large tub of touch up paint on the awesome shell. 

[Ziddan 983]

4 hours ago, Rinskie said:

10t pinion

I did leave the gearbox alone so that is how the pictured chassi is currently set up, when i get the servo in i will be able to see if the lower wheelspeed has cut out wheelies or not.

[taffer 949]

more of a trail vehicle now?

 

 

[JimBear 793]

I wonder if one could use larger Lunch Box wheels on this and bring in a  (Kyosho) Mad Van vibe to the chassis, with the shorter shocks? I like the Mad Van idea but I can't get past how it rides so heavily on the rear.

[Kowalski86 3983]

2 hours ago, JimBear said:

I wonder if one could use larger Lunch Box wheels on this and bring in a  (Kyosho) Mad Van vibe to the chassis, with the shorter shocks? 

I think a TT-02B would be a better starting point for that, it being touring car based like the Mad Van.

I will say that with the Pajeros smaller wheels, it looks very shakes in motion (when it's not running in slow mo).

[JimBear 793]

16 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

I think a TT-02B would be a better starting point for that, it being touring car based like the Mad Van.

I was thinking along the Lunch Box lines, but in that case, I guess looking for some other (lexan) body is a better bet, since the wheelbase of the TT-02B is going to be much longer. Unless one gets into "shortening the TT-02 bathtub" business.

[Willy iine 18823]

5 hours ago, JimBear said:

I wonder if one could use larger Lunch Box wheels on this and bring in a  (Kyosho) Mad Van vibe to the chassis, with the shorter shocks? I like the Mad Van idea but I can't get past how it rides so heavily on the rear.

I always thought the 58044 Pajero (original)'s tires were a bit narrow.. back in the 80's when I had one I wanted wider tires..and the current one (also original 58044) as well, but I accepted them since it's a vintage car.

The new release's tires also seem a bit narrow for the car, so the bigger wheels/tires will probably look more at home, at least for me.  No plan to get one at the moment..

[Ziddan 983]

8 hours ago, taffer said:

trail vehicle now?

That seems like the intent to me, they do show it wheelieing but i cant tell if that is a full throttle slam.

It might be that it wont go fully back with the lower surface-of-the-wheels speed due to the smaller wheels of this variant, as ive speculated earlier.

6 hours ago, JimBear said:

Lunch Box wheels

They are straight bolt on, the exact config is that of the Montero Wheelie which has the same shell.

Looking at the pic i dont think it will go much lower, maybe a bit in the back, but the wheel arches look pretty close to the tires. 

 

 

 

[JimBear 793]

1 hour ago, Ziddan said:

They are straight bolt on, the exact config is that of the Montero Wheelie which has the same shell.

Yep, maybe something for the kid then. Or the kid in me.

[Busdriver 6270]

I’m sorry but I just don’t get this. It’s neither one thing no t’other. I love the body but wasn’t it originally a hard body, at least one you could paint. I really can’t see what its market is. The Squash van I get though don’t like the pre painted shell but this well🤷‍♂️