On-Road Asphalt Racing

[87lc2 2557]

So decided to dive head-first into on road asphalt racing and have absolutely no clue what I'm doing.  I've been racing solid axle monsters for a few years now, but the local hobby shop started on-road asphalt every other Sunday and after going over to watch last week I think I'm hooked, looks like so much fun!

Anyway - Trying to keep it as simple as possible at first.  They run 4 main classes with good turnout; Club class (plastic chassis, 12t motor limit), Euro Truck, VTA, and Pro Spec.  I already have a few TT02s, so going to prep a TT02R for the Club Class, and also just ordered a Fat Fox to run Euro Truck.  I will eventually get into VTA, but there's a bit more involved in that class so want to do the simple stuff first. 

Club (TT02R) - Not many rules in this class, basically a novice class.  Motor limit is 12t, but I'm going to run a Reedy 15t for now with a bit of timing.  Car is built stock from the kit and not really planning on any other modifications for now.  Most guys are running stock TT02s, Fazers, Redcats, etc. in this class so I'd rather upgrade as necessary than go all out at first.  Any tips for setting up the TT02 would be nice, no clue what I'm doing with on-road stuff.  I did remove the rear 3 degree uprights a while back because I didnt like how they looked, would it be in my best interest to put them back on for racing?  As far as tires, it seemed like the guys running stock Tamiys slicks were OK, but the Tamiya road tires were awful so will probably just stick with the stock slicks for now. 

Euro Truck - Only modification allowed is a bearing set, should be easy right?  Haha, I doubt it...I assume there's more to this than I imagine, what am I missing?  Any tips or tricks to this class or things that can be done to the truck?

One question I have in general is diffs - how should I set them up initially?  For the TT02R I probably just put some light grease in there and called it good when I built it, think I only ran the car once on my street then shelved it.  Any guidance here would be nice.  I assume thicker up front and lighter in the rear?   Maybe thick AW grease up front and just light grease in the rear?  

Any help appreciated.  I know there are a lot of guys here with good experience and know these cars inside out, hoping to just get the cars to a good baseline before I start making changes based on feel/results once I get into it.  

 

[sosidge 618]

Just build the cars correctly to kit settings, get the right tyres and motor in the car, and drive it. There are lots of things you will learn after you have actually been to the track, no point pre-empting it with unnecessary changes.

The 12t rule might be based on the Traxxas 12t sealed can motor so be prepared to buy one of them instead of running a 15t motor with advanced timing, if your motor is faster than the cheap 12t motors you might put some noses out of joint.

[Kowalski86 2104]

I've never raced, so take my input for what its worth.

I wouldn't worry about the three degree uprights and bits and ends on your TT-02R, just keep driving and adjust it based on getting it to do what you want it to do.

Your TT02R has more adjustability than any stock Fazer or 4Tec, and it's lighter, I can only assume that your chassis will out handle a Redcat. 12T 550s are torque heavy, but they're heavier than 540 cans.

How you set up your diffs depends on if you want a "point and shoot" setup (heavier grease up front), or if you want the back end to kick out (heavier in back).

For Eurotruck, put the upper body pins on an extra space above to give the body room to shake without upsetting the chassis.

 

[87lc2 2557]

40 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

I've never raced, so take my input for what its worth.

I wouldn't worry about the three degree uprights and bits and ends on your TT-02R, just keep driving and adjust it based on getting it to do what you want it to do.

Your TT02R has more adjustability than any stock Fazer or 4Tec, and it's lighter, I can only assume that your chassis will out handle a Redcat. 12T 550s are torque heavy, but they're heavier than 540 cans.

How you set up your diffs depends on if you want a "point and shoot" setup (heavier grease up front), or if you want the back end to kick out (heavier in back).

For Eurotruck, put the upper body pins on an extra space above to give the body room to shake without upsetting the chassis.

 

Thank you!  Even that little bit was helpful.  I'm confident my TT02R will do well in that class with a 15t 540.  A friend of mine won that class last week with a box stock TT02 with stock friction shocks and torque tuned motor.  He's going to the Reedy motor as well so figured I'd start there.  No way would I put a 550 can in the TT02, it just doesnt need the torque.  I was just curious on the benefit of the 3 degree uprights because I think they look horrible with the rear tires pointed in, but if they help when driving might as well use them. 

Makes sense on the diffs.  I have two weeks before the next race so I'll get my car setup and do some experimenting.  I have a feeling heavier grease up front will be the way to go (seems to be what most guys were doing there).  I was seeing a lot of back ends coming around and while that's a lot more fun obviously leads to much slower lap times.  

I'm pretty excited to get into this.  I haven't raced 1/10 cars since my 2wd dirt buggy days and its bringing back memories already.  I love my monster truck racing but looking forward to getting into longer heats and side by side racing again.  Think I'm most excited for the Euro truck, looks like a blast and love that the class is stock since i don't want to be chasing setups until I get more comfortable with driving. 

[ThunderDragonCy 7265]

It's worth getting a ride height gauge if you don't have one. I got a simple one with a camber gauge off ebay and it's the best thing I ever did for racing. Just put the car on its race wheels on a flag surface (shelf or kitchen worktop is fine) and get the ride height good. Check the kit recommendations , but if there aren't any, try 6mm front and rear. Outdoor tracks tend to be bumpy so it's worth running a little higher than indoor suggestions in my experience. 

Having started learning on a TT01E I would say if you have toe in rear uprights put them on. Biggest single improvement I made to the 01E was moving up a class to allow me to run toe in rear uprights. Settles the car and improves traction. 

After that, get the tyres most people at the club run and go from there. 

[ThunderDragonCy 7265]

Additional - if you have the chance to run at the track outside of racing, do that. Biggest step I made was being able to go to my club track on my own and run for a few hours making and trying out changes and just learning the track. 

[87lc2 2557]

Thank you, great tips!  I did put the 3 degree rear uprights on and nearly ready for testing on the TT02R.  Just need to break in the motor, decide on gearing, install servo and good to go.  I put diff putty up front (nearly locked), and small amount of AW in the rear, we'll see how that feels.  For shocks I'll probably start with 40wt all round and adjust from there.

Its a shame, about 5-6 years ago I bought a huge lot of TRF cars, chassis, parts, etc. from a local racer that just wanted out of the hobby.  Sold everything in pieces for a huge profit since I didnt think I'd ever get into on road racing.  Sold a really nice setup station and some other goodies that would really come in handy right about now...

 

Edit - Also received my Fat Fox the other day.  Took me an hour or so just to trim the body, haha.  Had no idea it was 5-6 pieces.  Really excited for the Euro truck racing since its a totally spec class.  Of course people will cheat and I don't plan on winning, but these trucks look so cool and can't wait to run it. 

[Kowalski86 2104]

On 7/26/2023 at 10:32 AM, 87lc2 said:

Thank you!  Even that little bit was helpful.  I'm confident my TT02R will do well in that class with a 15t 540.  A friend of mine won that class last week with a box stock TT02 with stock friction shocks and torque tuned motor.  He's going to the Reedy motor as well so figured I'd start there.  No way would I put a 550 can in the TT02, it just doesnt need the torque.  I was just curious on the benefit of the 3 degree uprights because I think they look horrible with the rear tires pointed in, but if they help when driving might as well use them. 

Makes sense on the diffs.  I have two weeks before the next race so I'll get my car setup and do some experimenting.  I have a feeling heavier grease up front will be the way to go (seems to be what most guys were doing there).  I was seeing a lot of back ends coming around and while that's a lot more fun obviously leads to much slower lap times.  

Anytime!

I've had mediocre experiences with 15T motors, they're high rpm and tend to run hot, but it doesn't hurt to try one.

On some of my RCs, I like to run with just a bit of toe out up front for extra stability. The nice thing with your car is that you can make that adjustment, can't do that with any of the RTRs out of the box.

With Euro Truck, you can run grease in the shocks for some level of dampening. Gluing the tires side walls helps prevent traction rolling.

I've wanted to race in a Euro Truck class myself, but no one likes to race on a reasonable budget around me. I figured I can at least pass on my knowledge of the class.

[87lc2 2557]

3 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

Anytime!

I've had mediocre experiences with 15T motors, they're high rpm and tend to run hot, but it doesn't hurt to try one.

On some of my RCs, I like to run with just a bit of toe out up front for extra stability. The nice thing with your car is that you can make that adjustment, can't do that with any of the RTRs out of the box.

With Euro Truck, you can run grease in the shocks for some level of dampening. Gluing the tires side walls helps prevent traction rolling.

I've wanted to race in a Euro Truck class myself, but no one likes to race on a reasonable budget around me. I figured I can at least pass on my knowledge of the class.

I actually toyed with the idea of just running the stock Torque Tuned motor at first to get used to it, but nearly everyone is running 12t motors in that class so I'll stick with the 15t for now and see how it goes.  Don't have an adjustable motor mount yet, so think I'm going with 27/64t gearing, we'll see how temps are with that setup.

I've read a bit about the Euro trucks and there are so many differing opinions I'm just confused at this point.  I've heard both on the shocks - grease and dry.  What grease would you recommend?  It would make sense to run a bit of grease in there in my head.  I have seen people gluing the sidewalls as well, but I thought that was just for carpet?  Should they be glued for asphalt as well?

 

 

[SupraChrgd82 1422]

Practice driving first.  Learn about your driving style and how you evolve, then make changes to the car to better suit our style.  Some drivers like understeer, some like a loose rear end, some like 4 wheel slide, some like fast turn-in, some make up time in the corners...it varies by the individual.  You'll struggle if you set your car up for a style that does not suit you.   

[87lc2 2557]

5 minutes ago, SupraChrgd82 said:

Practice driving first.  Learn about your driving style and how you evolve, then make changes to the car to better suit our style.  Some drivers like understeer, some like a loose rear end, some like 4 wheel slide, some like fast turn-in, some make up time in the corners...it varies by the individual.  You'll struggle if you set your car up for a style that does not suit you.   

Yes of course.  Did a good bit of driving last week before I tore the car down and nearly certain I prefer slow in-fast out which aligns with my years of sim racing (possible not applicable at all here).  I also tend to take wide F1 lines which may or may not be a good idea (I have no clue what I'm doing yet...haha). 

Really trying to set the car up neutrally with a good base setup and then tune from there.  Rear toe-in, small amount of front toe-out, loose rear diff and tight front diff.  Any other base suggestions would be appreciated, but yes it it will all need to get sorted out through driving & testing just like anything else. 

[Kowalski86 2104]

43 minutes ago, 87lc2 said:

I actually toyed with the idea of just running the stock Torque Tuned motor at first to get used to it, but nearly everyone is running 12t motors in that class.

I've read a bit about the Euro trucks and there are so many differing opinions I'm just confused at this point.  I've heard both on the shocks - grease and dry. 

What else is your competition running? If it's all 4-Tecs that's what their stock motor, you shouldn't have much trouble beating them in the corners.

Most run AW grease, but before messing with that or gluing tires I'd drive it. It's mostly carpet where they need glue afaik. What angle you set your shocks up comes down to your driving preferences more than anything else.

I've taken a photo of how I mount my Eurotruck shell, I don't race but out on my bumpy street this helps keep the chassis stable when the body shakes.

I also like to use "corn cushions" on my Tamiyas to protect the shells and reduce wobble. You can find them in most grocery stores.

[87lc2 2557]

I use something similar to mount all of my bodies, really helps with the solid axle monster trucks too - not a fan of body shake. 

Most guys in that class are running either 4-tecs or Fazers with the 12t 550 motors and guys running the TT02s are running 15-17t 540 motors. 

[Kowalski86 2104]

29 minutes ago, 87lc2 said:

Most guys in that class are running either 4-tecs or Fazers with the 12t 550 motors and guys running the TT02s are running 15-17t 540 motors. 

It looks like the Fazer comes with a 14T 550 standard, also, it comes with a plastic driveshaft (what is this, a Tamiya?!).

Be careful taking the motor/gear cover off, on my "budget" TT-02 I stripped a thread from experimenting between gears/motors quite a bit. Some super glue can patch it up temporarily.

[87lc2 2557]

Interesting, I know at least one of the Fazer guys with an El Camino body had a 12t in there.  In this class I don't think motor is going to matter as much as getting around the track cleanly

Thanks for the tip on the gear cover.  I'll be sure not to overtighten those screws.

[87lc2 2557]

Sudden change of plans - I think I'll be racing in the Novice class at the TCS event this weekend.  Talk about diving in head first    A friend I race monster trucks with is a big on road racer and is slowly convincing me to go.  Broke in a new Torque Tuned motor and went with 64/29 gearing (max the stock mount will take) and we'll see what happens.  Very excited but also pretty nervous seeing as I have zero laps under my belt in an on road car on a race track.  Should be fun though and that's what its all about. 

[87lc2 2557]

Had a great time at the TCS event in NJ yesterday and was fortunate enough to win both Best of Show in the GT class and also took 1st place in the GT Spec/Novice class!  Not bad for my first on road race ever.  Still have a lot to learn, but drove nice and smooth throughout the day and can't wait to enjoy more on road racing. 

Ended up winning an Opel Calibra body for the concours and a Porsche 911 GT3 TT02 Kit for the class win. 

***Apologies for the hideous USGT wheels on the car in the photo, but they were pretty much the spec tire for the even and had no choice but to run them...I did run some laps on my Tamiya slicks and even with traction compound they just weren't cutting it with everyone else on the USGT wheel/tire***

 

 

[RC_FunLand 159]

On 8/2/2023 at 11:42 AM, 87lc2 said:

Sudden change of plans - I think I'll be racing in the Novice class at the TCS event this weekend.

OOOH, the Jackson, NJ event? One of my buddies was mentioning that...!

[RC_FunLand 159]

Just now, 87lc2 said:

Had a great time at the TCS event in NJ yesterday and was fortunate enough to win both Best of Show in the GT class and also took 1st place in the GT Spec/Novice class!  Not bad for my first on road race ever.  Still have a lot to learn, but drove nice and smooth throughout the day and can't wait to enjoy more on road racing. 

Ended up winning an Opel Calibra body for the concours and a Porsche 911 GT3 TT02 Kit for the class win. 

***Apologies for the hideous USGT wheels on the car in the photo, but they were pretty much the spec tire for the even and had no choice but to run them...I did run some laps on my Tamiya slicks and even with traction compound they just weren't cutting it with everyone else on the USGT wheel/tire***

 

 

Looks like you had a ball... congrats!

[87lc2 2557]

3 minutes ago, RC_FunLand said:

OOOH, the Jackson, NJ event? One of my buddies was mentioning that...!

Yea, it was the event in Jackson yesterday.  Was a really nice event, 135 cars and 75 drivers I think.  Definitely a long day, but worth it in the end!  Lots of fun.

[Aerobert 1975]

On 8/7/2023 at 8:15 PM, 87lc2 said:

Ended up winning an Opel Calibra body for the concours and a Porsche 911 GT3 TT02 Kit for the class win. 

Congratulations for your win. Nice looking Audi!

[Kowalski86 2104]

Nice work, I'd like to hear more about your races if you'd like to share. I'm glad that your Audi worked out for you!

[87lc2 2557]

2 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

Nice work, I'd like to hear more about your races if you'd like to share. I'm glad that your Audi worked out for you!

Absolutely.  Didn't go into much detail because I wasn't sure anyone would care, but here goes:

I was a bit nervous when I got to the track as there were way more people there than I'd ever seen before at a race, there were around 80 drivers and 175 entries if I remember correctly.  When I got there I really had no clue what to do.  Figured I should register first and then they announced the track was open for practice.  I honestly didn't know if there would be practice but I was relieved I could get a few laps in to get a feel for things.  Started with the Tamiya slicks (with foams) and the car drove OK but coming off the long back straight it would swap ends unless I let off the throttle way early and coasted around the corner (obviously not ideal for racing).  Car was also pushing a bit in turns but it was manageable, the snap oversteer is what had me worried.  Came back to the pit and put some traction compound on the tires and let it dry for a bit and got back out there.  That was not helpful and car felt pretty much the same surprisingly.  I was a bit worried but I knew I could drive through it if I had to.  Was putting some more "sauce" on the tires when an obviously experienced racer next to me slapped some USGT wheels/tires on my table and said, "Try these".  Put them on and got right out there and was amazed at the difference.  Even at 2mm narrower the car was glued to the track, felt amazing.  I wasn't paying to much attention to the lap times but I cut nearly 2 seconds off after 5 minutes with a simple tire change, impressive.

Parked the car after that and other than looking it over I didnt touch a thing since it was working and didnt want to make any changes right before my first heat.  First heat comes and the nerves set in...Funny, I really never get nervous but this was the first time I've raced on a track with other people/cars in about 20 years.  In monster truck racing you're in your own lane and don't have to worry about the other guy...this was different.  It was a staggered start and I left in 8th position.  By the end of the first lap I overtook 2-3 cars and was feeling pretty good, nerves have settled a bit by this point.  I was hitting my mental markers and things were going well.  As I gained confidence I started pushing the car a bit and on the entrance to the straight at the end of the third lap I made an aggressive pass and the other driver pushed me head on into a barrier and the right front wheel was just hanging off the car - snapped knuckle I assumed.  I'm not sure if the other car did it on purpose or was just surprised I came around them, but I take the blame for that.  I could have easily waited for the straight or turn 1 to pass easily.  So the first heat ended with 2 full laps and a lot of disappointment. 

Got back to the pit and sure enough the right front knuckle was broken.  Also realized I lost a dogbone out there, but was able to find it pretty quickly since it was clear where it happened.  Credit to other racers again, I had 2 brand new TT02 parts trees on my table by the time I got back with my dogbone, I was very relieved.  Also felt stupid for not really bringing any spares, honestly didnt think I would break anything...lesson learned.

While disappointed, I knew what I did wrong and felt much better when the other drivers told me only your best heat counts for main placement.  As long as I did well in heat 2 I could still make the A Main so was a bit relieved.  That's how new I am to this, had no clue how any of it worked.  I thought I just cost myself the whole day with that incident. 

 

Heat 2 comes and since I only completed 2 laps I got dropped to the "C" qualifying heat (they reshuffled after the first).  The guys told me to be really careful since the other drivers would be pretty erratic in this round so I made a plan to just hang back and take what was given to me rather than pushing.  Everything was going well for the first 7-8 laps and I was cruising.  Car felt great, I was hitting my lines and making much better passes.   On lap 8 I made a nice clean pass and the car two behind made a move on the car I just passed, overshot and t-boned me as I was mid-corner.  Car was rolled but a marshal got me on the wheels quickly and I was off again.  Unfortunately every time I got on the throttle the car would pull left hard so the rest of the race was spent just trying to keep the car straight.  I was still able to get 13 laps in which was good for 3rd spot on the grid in the A Main so I was pretty happy all in all.  Issue ended up being another missing dogbone but this time I was not lucky enough to find it.  Again other racers helped out and now I have quite a few extra metal TT02R dogbones.  I can't say it enough, the other drivers were first class even though I was just running my mostly stock TT02 in the GT Novice class.  It was pretty cool.

 

Main time!  I started third on the grid and there was about 30-40 feet of straight before turn 1.  The transition into turn 2 was tricky and turn 2 itself was a long, tight sweeper than people were missing the line on all day so figured my best chance was to make a move at the start and cruise to victory.  Easier said than done, haha.  I knew the guy in pole position was experienced, but also heard him say that he geared down (from 29/64 to 22/64) - no idea why he would do that but I knew I could beat him to turn 1 with the distance from the line.  And I did just that.  Started on the inside and without making any contact passed positions 1 & 2 on the inside at turn 1 and took the lead.  Held an 8 second lead into lap 4-5 (can't remember every detail) and here comes lapped traffic...The nerves were setting in pretty good by this point and I was overdriving the car a bit.  Made passes on lapped traffic (they don't exactly let you through like they should in the Novice class) and increased the lead to 12 seconds or so by laps 8/9.  Got bumped around lap 9 by a Mustang and lost a few seconds, but nothing I couldn't handle.  The big incident came in lap 12 I believe (a lot of the final 2-3 laps is a blur).  I got punted by a car overshooting a corner and my car rolled 3-4 times and landed on its lid.  Took a second for the marshal to get to it and second place passed me.  The nerves were really setting in now, I am a very competitive person by nature and did not want to lose when I had already convinced myself I won (definitely not the proper way to go about it, but that's how I felt at the time).  Somehow I settled down and drove my fastest lap of the day (and fastest in the class by nearly 2 seconds I believe) and came up on the leader with under a minute to go a the entrance to the straight.  Passed him on the straight (gearing again) and drove well for another 2 laps and finished 6.5 seconds ahead of second place. 

 

Not sure if you wanted to hear all that, but there it is.  A pretty wild experience for my first race and very glad I ended up going.  The TCS events are very well run and a lot of people show up, I certainly won't be missing any of those in the future when they come to town.  Apparently I need to retire the Audi body since it won concours and my first race (don't know why everyone keeps telling me this), but it does seem fitting and it is perfectly battle scarred without being destroyed so think I'll paint up the Porsche body I won and run that for a bit. 

My real issue now is where to go from here.  I'll still do the local parking lot race and run in the 12t class with my TT02R, but really want to get into racing at the track but unfortunately I'll need a lot more practice before I can do that.  THe only class that would make sense for me is Pro Spec GT and I'm just not ready for that yet.

As far as car setup for Sunday I kept it very simple and took some general tips from various forums, videos, etc. and basically just guessed.  I ran AW in the rear diff (basically open diff), putty in the front diff, 35wt oil in the shocks with 3mm spacers under the pistons and holes drilled in the caps, and ride height at just around 5mm.  Gearing was max allowed at 29/64 with the high speed gear set.  Car handles very well and I dont think I'll change much for now.  Maybe a bit heavier on the rear diff, but I honestly can't think of anything that needs to be changed.  I really just need to get out there and drive/practice more.  I've learned from my monster trucks practice is the key.  I spend a lot of time driving my trucks and making sure I know them inside and out.  Helps me routinely beat trucks that have twice the money in them than I have.  So I guess for now the focus is on driving rather than the car.  If I decide I need to make a change I will, but no use in tinkering when I only have about 15 minutes total in the seat, need to get some laps in. 

 

 

[87lc2 2557]

Wow, just realized how long that was!  I was reliving it in my head so enjoyed writing it, but for anyone that doesn't want to read all that here's the short version:

Heat 1 - Broke on 3rd lap, did not finish.

Heat 2 - Ran well and earned 3rd position in A Main.

A Main - Started third, took first on turn 1, lost lead on lap 12, came back to win by 6.5 seconds in the final 2 laps. 

 

 

[Kowalski86 2104]

Thank you for the good read, I guess they suggest that you "retire" the Audi shell, so anyone who you race against doesn't know that you're running the same car.

Was it TCS or something else that you raced in? I'm curious to know what your competitors ran.

You may end up needing universals if they're allowed, just to avoid more dogbone fetching.