On-Road Asphalt Racing

[bavee 947]

You keep amazing me @87lc2. At first with the amazing bodywork on your monstertrucks and now with your on road performance! You make it look so easy, like Max Verstappen driving a F1 at 17 years of age, but I'm sure it isn't as easy as it seems. Keep it up!

[87lc2 2556]

4 hours ago, bavee said:

You keep amazing me @87lc2. At first with the amazing bodywork on your monstertrucks and now with your on road performance! You make it look so easy, like Max Verstappen driving a F1 at 17 years of age, but I'm sure it isn't as easy as it seems. Keep it up!

Very kind words, thank you!  I'm not nearly as good as some on TC, I see some amazing work in the Showrooms.   My paint jobs are always quite simple (1-2 colors at the most), but I try to spend a lot of time trimming and stickering to make sure everything looks as good as I can possibly make it.  I love doing these Tamiya on road bodies, they take forever but they always come out so nice.  As my driving improves they stay nicer longer as well    The first couple bodies got pretty banged up, so hopefully this one lasts a bit longer. 

 

[87lc2 2556]

Was planning on racing at the big outdoor asphalt track yesterday, but unfortunately rain but a damper on that.  There happened to be an on road carpet race not far so I decided to give that a shot instead.  I figure if it works out I can continue to run through the winter, will be nice to have something going on.

I planned on running 12t Tub Chassis and Euro Truck, but also ended up racing my brand new Pro Spec car since there were plenty of people for the class.  Without getting into too much detail - carpet on road racing is a pain in the ***.  One heat you'll have hardly any traction and the next you're traction rolling at every turn.  I tried lots of combinations of tires & compound and got it figured out in some spots and others not at all...

Euro Truck - I was flying in warm ups and had some great laps.  Truck seemed perfect, but could use a bit more grip so I added compound on the inner half of the tires only.  First heat went great and I held TQ which was awesome.  Second heat I did not treat the tires since traction was coming up on the track and actually did a bit better than my time in Heat 1, but ended up qualifying 5th in the A Main since the faster veterans were really getting dialed in.  For the main I didnt touch anything and I should have - ran a very clean race but was off pace due to a bit of sliding and finished 6th - dead last.  Was 1 lap down on the winner so it was still some close racing, but I didnt have the traction I needed.

12T Tub - My SRX was a rocket all day long.  Car was absolutely dialed in and I made zero adjustments throughout.  Qualified 4 laps ahead of the field and won the main by 3 laps.  I am absolutely thrilled with the SRX, its a fantastic little car.

Pro Spec - This was a disaster and I still don't know why which is really frustrating.  In the first heat I simply could not drive hard, the car traction rolled at every corner - way too much grip.  For the second heat I cleaned the tires off and did not add any compound and it was better, but still rolled if I didnt really slow down at the end of each straight.  Ended up qualifying 2nd in the B Main.  I was frustrated and tried another set of tires that had a lot less grip and figured I'd rather drift a bit than traction roll.  It worked and I took the top spot fairly early, but grip really fell of at the end of the race and was passed on the second to last lap finishing 2nd. 

 

I am really confused because the 12t car and Pro Spec car were using the same tires (USGT Spec) but one had perfect grip and didnt roll once, where the other was just impossible to drive hard enough to make a race out of it.  I probably should have swapped the tires from the 12t car on to the Pro Spec, but being in the B Main I didnt even feel like messing with the car and told myself I'd figure it out later. 

In the end, I'm not a fan of the carpet racing at all.  I find the asphalt much more fun, realistic, and a lot more predictable when it comes to traction.  On asphalt I tend to have great grip to start and if it falls off it does so gradually and I can compensate for it with driving.  On carpet it seemed traction came and went and it was so frustrating to traction roll a car, not fun at all.  I'll probably give it a few more chances and see what I can figure out. 

[ThunderDragonCy 7263]

Glad it went well. Feel your pain though; I have plain just given up racing indoors in the winter on carpet. Hate it! Would rather race in freezing cold rain outside in winter than indoor on carpet. 

[87lc2 2556]

1 hour ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Glad it went well. Feel your pain though; I have plain just given up racing indoors in the winter on carpet. Hate it! Would rather race in freezing cold rain outside in winter than indoor on carpet. 

Glad I'm not alone.  It just wasn't fun trying to guess what the car was going to do.  Luckily there are still a couple months of outdoor races before the winter, so I look forward to those.

[Kowalski86 2100]

Carpet always seemed odd to me, I get why some tracks use it, but it's a very "unnatural" surface.

I can't wrap my head around the idea of tire sauce, or reducing grip in a touring car to avoid traction rolling.

[87lc2 2556]

3 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

Carpet always seemed odd to me, I get why some tracks use it, but it's a very "unnatural" surface.

I can't wrap my head around the idea of tire sauce, or reducing grip in a touring car to avoid traction rolling.

Yea, its just not as much fun running inside a stuffy shop when you can be outdoors enjoying the day. 

The grip is a bit annoying.  There was no grip early on so I sauces the tires, then the track came around and I was traction rolling (along with a lot of other guys).  Oddly though, my SRX (which got the same exact treatment as my Pro Spec) was perfect all day and never had an issue.  Euro trucks need the sidewalls glued everywhere so that was no surprise, but didnt want to start gluing the sidewalls on my asphalt tires just to make it through the day. 

I may give it another shot when its cold out and theres nothing else to do, but like I always say if the hobby is not fun its not worth it.  I'm not going to say I had zero fun, but there was a lot more frustration that I think there should be when I'm supposed to be enjoying myself.

[87lc2 2556]

Finished a new body for my SRX for the 12t class.  I just had to bring the monster trucks into on road somehow.  I'm sure nobody that I race with will be surprised.  USA-1 was a pretty easy transition, not sure how I can get other trucks integrated though, that will be tough.

[87lc2 2556]

This weekend was supposed to be a double header, carpet indoor on Saturday and outdoor asphalt today but unfortunately today got rained out...Knowing the rain was coming I made sure to get to the indoor race yesterday.  It's a new hobby shop in the area and the track is rather large which is nice (and uncommon for indoor around here).

I ended up racing Euro Truck, Tamiya Pro Spec, and TT02 Production.  Production is a new class for me and one I'm rather excited about.  It's basically a stock TT02 class with mild upgrades - nothing adjustable.  I took one of the kits I had lying around and built it with a high torque saver, aluminum center shaft, front universals, and rear metal shafts.  That's it, other than shimming the entire kit it was stock. 

One thing I have to mention is this track allowed 7.6 HV batteries to be run.  I honestly didn't even know these existed and have never seen a track around here allow them.  This put me at a disadvantage right out of the gate since I only have lowly 7.4v 2S lipos.   Oh well, not one to complain and really just need to work on my driving at this point so wasn't too bothered. 

 

Euro Truck - For some reason the truck just suits my driving style.  I qualified second and finished second in the A Main, happy with that result.  I was dead consistent with the truck and it just flows around the track nicely.

Tamiya Pro Spec - I had a bit of trouble with excess traction in the heats so couldn't push the car as hard as I wanted, but ended up qualifying 4th in the A Main which was nice.  Car drove great in the Main and just held position, finished 4th.  I'm happy with that, most of the guys running Pro Spec around here and been doing it a long time and admittedly have hot motors.  That's a bit annoying as the class specs 21.5 Fixed Timing motors, but they send the to a "guy" who gets a bit more out of them.  It's very clear on the long straight that my car is much slower.

TT02 Production - I had more severe traction roll issues with this car early on, but still had a nice first heat.  Ended up adding more glue to the sidewalls and that helped, but did not totally fix the issue.  Ended up qualifying 4th here as well out of nearly 20 cars so that was cool for the first time running the class.  Finished one spot down, 5th, in the A Main due to not being able to lean on the car hard.  Oh well, learned a lot and will be more prepared next time. 

 

Overall I was happy with my day.  Looking at LiveRC my driving is getting much more consistent.  That's really what I'm shooting for now.  I need to be consistent, then start worrying about being faster.  I was 97% consistent in Euro, 96% in Pro Spec, and 91% in Production (a few rolls hurt me there).  

I'll never be as fast as the top guys for two reasons - 1) They have been doing this for over 20 years, it will take some time to catch up and  2) They all "cheat".    A lot of people complain about it, but it honestly doesn't bother me.  My cars are 100% legal and I'll do what I can with them.  I'm just having a lot of fun trying to figure this all out, its definitely a challenge.

[87lc2 2556]

Raced carpet again last Saturday and it was a great time.  There weren't enough Euro Trucks to run (very surprising in these parts) so only ended up running Pro Spec & TT02 Production.  Production is becoming a huge class around here out of nowhere and I think most of the regular Euro Truck guys were running - so that's where they went .   We had 22 cars in the class which is a nice turnout.  Other classes were a bit lighter for the day so we ended up running three qualifiers and a main which was nice, more track time is what I need at the moment.   Ended up taking 2nd in Production and I was very happy about that.  Pro Spec finished 3rd and happy about that as well, especially since I'm the only one in the top 5-6 that is not running a "hot" motor.  Both cars were nice and consistent all day and I'm really starting to figure out the glue/tire sauce combo  by the Mains which is nice. 

In other news I finally got the F1 car together and brought it to the track.  Unfortunately due to an electronics issue I was not able to enter the class but I did put about 40-50 laps on it during practice.  With CRC tires and 3.72 FDR (most guys are running 2.4-2.7 on this track) I was about a second off the pace which is not terrible.  I'll figure out the electronics issue, re-gear, and be back for the next one.  The car drove amazing and I absolutely love it.  So responsive and nothing like a TT02, haha. 

Also decided to paint a new body for my Production car.  I was running my Mustang GT4 since I figured a Production class should run mostly street bodies.  Boy, was I wrong.  Everyone is running the lowest Tamiya body they can find (lots of Rakiris) so figured I'd get something a bit lower.  Went with an R35 GTR and painted in Calsonic livery.  Didn't go crazy with the detail since it will get raced, but happy with how it turned out.  Will be easy to see on the track in that bright blue, that's for sure. 

Will be painting new bodies for the F104 & Euro Truck in the next couple weeks.  People don't seem to enjoy my black JPS cars quite as much as I do.  Apparently they're hard to see out on the track. 

[RC_FunLand 159]

2 hours ago, 87lc2 said:

Also decided to paint a new body for my Production car.  I was running my Mustang GT4 since I figured a Production class should run mostly street bodies.  Boy, was I wrong.  Everyone is running the lowest Tamiya body they can find (lots of Rakiris) so figured I'd get something a bit lower.  Went with an R35 GTR and painted in Calsonic livery.  Didn't go crazy with the detail since it will get raced, but happy with how it turned out.

You're in the Bensalem area? If so, where do you race??? I'd love to join in on a Stock Spec race sometime with my TT-02...

 

ALSO, that Calsonic? Just beautiful. I have the NISMO GTR variant on my TT-02; though the entire front grille piece is falling off at this point...LOL

[87lc2 2556]

Yea, I'm right by you!  I race a few places locally.  We have a few more parking lot races left in Croydon, PA, there is one this Sunday.  We run TT02 Production, 12t Max Tub Chassis, Tamiya Pro Spec, Euro Truck, VTA, M-Chassis.  If you're interested get in touch and I can fill you in on the details.  There's a FB Group page for the races, would be happy to send a link.  Would be great to have another TC member come out!

Also race indoor at Park Lane Hobbies in Pottstown.  It's a brand new facility with a large track, has been a lot of fun so far.  There's also another carpet track in Toms River, NJ that we race at often.  They are holding Tamiya events once a month now which I'm very happy about.

Not sure how familiar you are with the TT02 Production class, but its been a big hit around here and rightfully so - It's a great way to race and keep everything cheap.  There are a few durability upgrades allowed (front universals, center shaft), but stock gearing, no suspension adjustments.  Must run stock friction shocks and no adjustable arms, rear toe blocks, etc.  Stock Torque Tuned Motor/ESC as well.  

[87lc2 2556]

Haven't updated in a while, but I've been doing a decent amount of indoor carpet racing lately.  Now that I've figured out tires on CRC carpet its become pretty fun.  I still prefer asphalt, but for the winter this will do. 

Yesterday I ended up running 4 classes in one race day, a first for me and probably a bit too much.  Ended up being a very busy day, but the cars didn't suffer and everything worked out well. Transitioning between classes so often was not the easiest thing in the world, but typically settled in after a lap or two which was nice. 

Ended up placing 1st in TT02 Production, 1st in 12t Tub Chassis (with the SRX), 2nd in Tamiya Pro Spec, and 3rd in Euro Truck. 

 

Just painted a few new bodies today (need to get rid of the black cars) and will post them as soon as I get them stickered up. 

[monark192 44]

Sounds like a good day of racing.  I have never tried 4 classes as I find 3 almost too many.  When I cut down to 2 classes in an effort to focus on those a bit more, I feel like I am missing out on the fun as I watch others on track lol.  Trying for 2 "serious" classes - usually 215TC and USGT - where I have time to work on the cars between heats, and one fun class such as VTA or Euro truck where I just drive what I have.

[87lc2 2556]

12 hours ago, monark192 said:

Sounds like a good day of racing.  I have never tried 4 classes as I find 3 almost too many.  When I cut down to 2 classes in an effort to focus on those a bit more, I feel like I am missing out on the fun as I watch others on track lol.  Trying for 2 "serious" classes - usually 215TC and USGT - where I have time to work on the cars between heats, and one fun class such as VTA or Euro truck where I just drive what I have.

Yea, it was a bit much running 4 but also a lot of fun.  Most of the guys there thought I was nuts, most run 2, 3 max as you said.  Total of 60 minutes actual race time which is what I need, as many laps as I can get. 

Since this is still pretty new to me I'm doing mostly the "fun" classes at this point, but they're still super competitive around here.  Even VTA around here is very competitive with most guys running Xray or even TRF chassis.  Want to get a VTA car together just not sure on a chassis yet.  May go with the TA08R when it arrives. 

If I keep doing well I'll move to an actual touring car sometime next year.  21.5 & USGT are really popular around here so it would be one of those, but I need to learn a bit more about them to make a decision.  Would like to stick with all Tamiya chassis if I can, but the TRF stuff is a lot more expensive than a comparable (and possibly better) Xray or similar chassis. 

[monark192 44]

My VTA is a TA08 Pro. It is a competetive class as well at our track but to run a 3rd class I just have to not work on the car between heats - just drive it for fun and laps.  Set up changes etc are limited to the other 2 classes for time, brain space, etc.

I found a used TRF420 on Buyee for about $300 - seemed like a bargain compared to a new 420x.  

[87lc2 2556]

7 minutes ago, monark192 said:

My VTA is a TA08 Pro. It is a competetive class as well at our track but to run a 3rd class I just have to not work on the car between heats - just drive it for fun and laps.  Set up changes etc are limited to the other 2 classes for time, brain space, etc.

I found a used TRF420 on Buyee for about $300 - seemed like a bargain compared to a new 420x.  

That's a good point, I should look for a used TRF chassis...I'm starting to get the hang of the cars & setup and typically make minimal changes between rounds, usually just minor stuff.  It's been working, getting faster every round which is nice.  I find the most important thing about carpet is tires/glue.  As long as my tires are working I have good runs.  So many fast guys are on the ragged edge and one traction roll sends them back a few spots. 

[87lc2 2556]

Today was a fun one   Last race of the outdoor season and it decided to rain a bit right before the mains started.  We let it pass and they removed puddles from the track, but it was still wet.  Have never raced in the wet before so this was going to be interesting.  I was running Euro, Pro Spec, and 12T - TQ in 12T, 5th in Euro, and 3rd in Pro Spec to start the mains.  My Euro was not doing well and I should have qualified better, but was happy with the others. 

Turns out my off-road and monster truck driving directly applied to driving in the wet and I took the win in all three classes easily.  Most guys were either drifting uncontrollably, or trying to drive slow & smooth which was impossible due to the near-zero front grip the track was offering.  I ended up using the throttle to steer the cars and was rarely not on full throttle throughout the race - except for 12t, that car is just too fast and had to father it a bit more. 

Overall a fun and interesting end to the outdoor season, looking forward to getting to an indoor race or two per month over the winter.   Have a few big monster truck races coming up so concentrating on that for now, still have some work to do on the trucks to get them ready.

[Kowalski86 2100]

On 10/29/2023 at 11:12 PM, 87lc2 said:

Turns out my off-road and monster truck driving directly applied to driving in the wet and I took the win in all three classes easily.  Most guys were either drifting uncontrollably, or trying to drive slow & smooth which was impossible due to the near-zero front grip the track was offering.  I ended up using the throttle to steer the cars and was rarely not on full throttle throughout the race 

To me, "steering with the throttle" makes for a much more authentic experience. You can't really "point and shoot" real cars like you can a touring car.

If anything I think tracks need LESS grip, makes it more about the drivers skill.

[87lc2 2556]

10 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

To me, "steering with the throttle" makes for a much more authentic experience. You can't really "point and shoot" real cars like you can a touring car.

If anything I think tracks need LESS grip, makes it more about the drivers skill.

Yes, I agree 100%.  It was so much fun actually "driving" the cars for once rather than just trying to set the car/tires up for max grip and essentially running point & shoot.  I've been running on black carpet nearly every weekend now and there is so much grip you actually have to dial some out in certain cases.  I much prefer asphalt racing but even then there is so much grip.

I heard of a local club that was doing rally racing over the summer using TT02/XV01/XV02 Tamiyas, I'm definitely going to give that a shot next outdoor season, seems like a lot of fun. 

[Kowalski86 2100]

24 minutes ago, 87lc2 said:

Yes, I agree 100%.  It was so much fun actually "driving" the cars for once rather than just trying to set the car/tires up for max grip and essentially running point & shoot.

Recently I've been playing with the idea of tightening up the rear diff on my TT-02, with a looser front. This goes against every "good" touring car setup, but it makes for a better driver when you're just driving about outside.

I can't help but think that on certain tracks this could be advantageous, since it helps overcome understeer. It definitely helped out when I ran it in a Postal Race.

[87lc2 2556]

2 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

Recently I've been playing with the idea of tightening up the rear diff on my TT-02, with a looser front. This goes against every "good" touring car setup, but it makes for a better driver when you're just driving about outside.

I can't help but think that on certain tracks this could be advantageous, since it helps overcome understeer. It definitely helped out when I ran it in a Postal Race.

Yes, that seems to go against all convention tuning for a high grip surface but I can see it being a lot more satisfying to drive!  I haven't been in a race situation (carpet or tarmac) where that would help, but I'm sure there are cases.  With the exception of my Euro Truck & TT02 Production car I typically run either front spools or thick putty in the front diff with either 3k or 5k rear oil.  I have been meaning to experiment with the rear diff a bit more, but the cars have been working well and want to work on one thing at a time without making big changes.  I see a lot of guys make too many changes at once and it never seems to turn out well for them.