Lowest safe FDR for tt02?

[EmJayeX 21]

Hello, just wondering...I sort of want to upgrade to a brushless system in my TT02, but its gonna be quite the wad of cash to do so. So instead of doing that, i was wondering what the easiest way to get the lowest FDR possible while being safe for the motor. I currently have a 22t 0.6mod pinion and the high speed gear set. Thanks in advance!

[Willy iine 18823]

How hot does the motor get currently?  Does it pass the 3 second rule?

 

I see this question about gearing often and honestly speaking, it really depends on the motor you are running, where you are running, grip level, tire diameter, and how (also how long).  What is considered correct gearing for flatter surface does not equal correct gearing if you're running over rougher terrain for example..

[alvinlwh 6893]

.

[EmJayeX 21]

42 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

How hot does the motor get currently?  Does it pass the 3 second rule?

 

I see this question about gearing often and honestly speaking, it really depends on the motor you are running, where you are running, grip level, tire diameter, and how (also how long).  What is considered correct gearing for flatter surface does not equal correct gearing if you're running over rougher terrain for example..

Yes it does pass the 3 sec rule. Ive never heard that term before. But I assume it means how long you can put your finger on the motor for?

And yeah, sorry, I forgot to put down that I just have the torque tuned motor. For the most part I do run on smooth asphalt, though the occasional rough patch comes up every now and then. But makes sense, thanks!

Edited August 3, 2023 by EmJayeX
Typos

[EmJayeX 21]

10 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Here is a chart that I use, the numbers are from an old Speed Passion motor instructions. It is more a guide than gospel.

And here is the chart from the TT-02 speed gear chart. Just make sure the numbers are within (or bigger) the number on the first chart and you will be fine.

Thanks @alvinlwh!

I do still have that TT02 chart, but I just didnt know whether or not it still applied I guess 😅

[alvinlwh 6893]

.

[Willy iine 18823]

51 minutes ago, EmJayeX said:

Yes it does pass the 3 sec rule. Ive never heard that term before. But I assume it means how long you can put your finger on the motor for?

And yeah, sorry, I forgot to put down that I just have the torque tuned motor. For the most part I do run on smooth asphalt, though the occasional rough patch comes up every now and then. But makes sense, thanks!

That is correct.  It's a rudimentary way to gauge your gearing, but it works.. and honestly the quickest and easiest way to verify.  I also check the heat sink on the ESC as well.   

No problem and GL with your car!  

[EmJayeX 21]

One more question...would something like the TB-05 63t 0.6mod spur gear be better to lower the overall gear ratio? Or would it be better to get a bigger pinion gear, like a 25t or a 26t?

[alvinlwh 6893]

.

[sosidge 663]

5 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

If you start messing around with the spur gear, you will have to work out your motor mounting holes or the pinion will not mash correctly as the mounting position in the sheet will not be correct. Or you will need a motor mount that is freely adjustable.

Not really, because every tooth you take off the spur gear you just add on to the pinion gear. So you can make the standard fixed mount work fine with just a bit of arithmetic as long as you stick with 0.6mod gears.

However I don't know if the TB-05 gear fits the TT-02 holder.

TT-02 speed tuned gears should give plenty of adjustment on a Torque Tuned, the highest ratio from that chart (5.74:1) should still be OK for larger spaces and will make a big difference compared to kit gearing (which is massively undergeared).

I think the "The RC Racer" website had an article on it about options for making bigger changes to TT-02 gearing.

[OoALEJOoO 3239]

I can confirm the TB-05 63T 0.6M spur gear (51609) does fit the TT-02 high-speed gear mount. Compared to the 64T spur that is shown on the instructions, the 63T would use the same pinion 1 step closer. For example, the 64T spur + 23T pinion mounts the motor on the B position, but for the 63T spur you would mount it on the A position. Looking at the whole mounting range, while the 64T spur goes from 22T (A position) to 29T pinions (H position), the 63T spur would use from 23T (A position) to 29T (G position). Tamiya does not make 0.6M pinions beyond 29T, which I guess is why the instructions stop there. However, you can see there is still room for a couple more slots if you use spurs from other manufacturers.

I've run the 63T spur + 32T pinion (MST) mounted on the K position, for a 5.12 FDR on a 17T brushed motor without problems. I had to file interior of the gear cover a little bit (since the 32T pinion is huge and would rub) and cool the motor with a heatsink + 40mm fan.

[EmJayeX 21]

3 hours ago, OoALEJOoO said:

I can confirm the TB-05 63T 0.6M spur gear (51609) does fit the TT-02 high-speed gear mount. Compared to the 64T spur that is shown on the instructions, the 63T would use the same pinion 1 step closer. For example, the 64T spur + 23T pinion mounts the motor on the B position, but for the 63T spur you would mount it on the A position. Looking at the whole mounting range, while the 64T spur goes from 22T (A position) to 29T pinions (H position), the 63T spur would use from 23T (A position) to 29T (G position). Tamiya does not make 0.6M pinions beyond 29T, which I guess is why the instructions stop there. However, you can see there is still room for a couple more slots if you use spurs from other manufacturers.

I've run the 63T spur + 32T pinion (MST) mounted on the K position, for a 5.12 FDR on a 17T brushed motor without problems. I had to file interior of the gear cover a little bit (since the 32T pinion is huge and would rub) and cool the motor with a heatsink + 40mm fan.

Man, thats great to hear that youve done that! This is exactly the answer I was looking for. Thanks so much! 

[OoALEJOoO 3239]

@EmJayeX Answering the original question a bit more broadly, if you keep the stock silvercan motor and go with a much taller (lower value) FDR, you might not necessarily feel the car to be faster. It will have a higher top-speed but this will require a longer straight to accomplish, perhaps 50+ meters for 5.5 FDR with the silvercan. When launching from a standstill, it will definitely be less punchy. For short-course racing (e.g. postal racing) and small space bashing it will feel slower.

I personally would not go taller than 8.04 FDR, which would be the 22T + 68T spur from the high-speed gear set. If you have a Torque-Tuned motor (many TT-02 kits come with one), then perhaps jump to a 25T pinion for a 7.07 FDR as an upper limit. If you run LiPo batteries, then perhaps you can go a little bit taller FDRs since they pack a bit more punch than NiMh. With more powerful brushed motors, say a Sport-Tuned or Super-Stock, then you'll get the benefit of having enough torque for taller FDRs, but at the expense of increased heat and need for cooling. Note that these might require an ESC upgrade if you got a TBLE Tamiya ESC.

[qatmix 812]

As others have said,  gearing is all about balancing run time with motor temps.

 

You can get creative with the gearing in a TT02 and even run alternate spurs.

 

https://www.thercracer.com/2022/12/tamiya-tt02-48dp-and-64dp-stealth-gear.html?m=0

[EmJayeX 21]

7 hours ago, OoALEJOoO said:

@EmJayeX Answering the original question a bit more broadly, if you keep the stock silvercan motor and go with a much taller (lower value) FDR, you might not necessarily feel the car to be faster. It will have a higher top-speed but this will require a longer straight to accomplish, perhaps 50+ meters for 5.5 FDR with the silvercan. When launching from a standstill, it will definitely be less punchy. For short-course racing (e.g. postal racing) and small space bashing it will feel slower.

I personally would not go taller than 8.04 FDR, which would be the 22T + 68T spur from the high-speed gear set. If you have a Torque-Tuned motor (many TT-02 kits come with one), then perhaps jump to a 25T pinion for a 7.07 FDR as an upper limit. If you run LiPo batteries, then perhaps you can go a little bit taller FDRs since they pack a bit more punch than NiMh. With more powerful brushed motors, say a Sport-Tuned or Super-Stock, then you'll get the benefit of having enough torque for taller FDRs, but at the expense of increased heat and need for cooling. Note that these might require an ESC upgrade if you got a TBLE Tamiya ESC.

This makes a lot of sense. I guess I did leave some things out of my original post. So Ive got the Torque tuned motor and Im running 2s lipos. So I might go that route.

Side question: Is the sport tuned motor worth it? Is it THAT much better than the torque tuned? 

Thanks!

[OoALEJOoO 3239]

1 hour ago, EmJayeX said:

Side question: Is the sport tuned motor worth it? Is it THAT much better than the torque tuned? 

If you want more speed, then totally worth it and noticeable quicker than the Torque-Tuned. The Sport-Tuned is in-between the Torque-Tuned and the mighty Super-Stock in terms of performance. On Plaza Japan, the Torque-Tuned is 1,100 yen vs 1,210 yen for the Sport-Tuned. That's a negligible difference in cost.

My recommendation is to try out what you have on-hand. After that, decide if you want to upgrade.

[EmJayeX 21]

4 hours ago, OoALEJOoO said:

If you want more speed, then totally worth it and noticeable quicker than the Torque-Tuned. The Sport-Tuned is in-between the Torque-Tuned and the mighty Super-Stock in terms of performance. On Plaza Japan, the Torque-Tuned is 1,100 yen vs 1,210 yen for the Sport-Tuned. That's a negligible difference in cost.

My recommendation is to try out what you have on-hand. After that, decide if you want to upgrade.

Will do, Ill see what I can make of the torque tuned motor and go from there. 

Does anyone else know whether or not you need an esc upgrade for the sport tuned motor?

[Kowalski86 3983]

6 hours ago, EmJayeX said:

Side question: Is the sport tuned motor worth it? Is it THAT much better than the torque tuned? 

Thanks!

Sport Tuneds run a little quicker, but at the expense of running warmer. They always got hot in my TT02s when I ran 22T pinions. If you're going for a low FDR, stick with a Torque Tuned for now.

Gearing will get you more top end speed than just switching motors. On one of my TT02s I shoved a 12T 550 can into it (think Titan 12T), but with a 20T pinion it had a lousy top speed.

If your kit came with a THW1060 (basically a Hobbywing 1060) you can run any brushed motor down to 15 turns.

Finally, if you're running LiPO, replace the white Molex battery connectors with something better. They restrict your power output.

[mike._.feliciano 1]

On 8/4/2023 at 4:03 AM, OoALEJOoO said:

I can confirm the TB-05 63T 0.6M spur gear (51609) does fit the TT-02 high-speed gear mount. Compared to the 64T spur that is shown on the instructions, the 63T would use the same pinion 1 step closer. For example, the 64T spur + 23T pinion mounts the motor on the B position, but for the 63T spur you would mount it on the A position. Looking at the whole mounting range, while the 64T spur goes from 22T (A position) to 29T pinions (H position), the 63T spur would use from 23T (A position) to 29T (G position). Tamiya does not make 0.6M pinions beyond 29T, which I guess is why the instructions stop there. However, you can see there is still room for a couple more slots if you use spurs from other manufacturers.

I've run the 63T spur + 32T pinion (MST) mounted on the K position, for a 5.12 FDR on a 17T brushed motor without problems. I had to file interior of the gear cover a little bit (since the 32T pinion is huge and would rub) and cool the motor with a heatsink + 40mm fan.

@ OoALEJOoO, where did you buy that 06 32T pinion from?  I'm have a challenging time finding a 06 module 30 & 31T pinon for that TT02 with a 63T (TB05) Spur.  Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[OoALEJOoO 3239]

13 hours ago, mike._.feliciano said:

@ OoALEJOoO, where did you buy that 06 32T pinion from?  I'm have a challenging time finding a 06 module 30 & 31T pinon for that TT02 with a 63T (TB05) Spur.  Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Got it from RCMart:

MST M0.6 32T Pinion Gear Gun Metal (rcmart.com)

I've seen others listed in eBay, although never bought these. Example:

M0.6 13T-33T 3.175 Hole Pinion Set For 1/10 RC Model Car Brushless Brushed Motor | eBay

[mike._.feliciano 1]

On 8/8/2023 at 6:34 AM, OoALEJOoO said:

Got it from RCMart:

MST M0.6 32T Pinion Gear Gun Metal (rcmart.com)

I've seen others listed in eBay, although never bought these. Example:

M0.6 13T-33T 3.175 Hole Pinion Set For 1/10 RC Model Car Brushless Brushed Motor | eBay

just an FYI, MST also has a 62 06 64p Spur.  You will have to increase the center hole and drill 4 holes for the spur holder...