Pondering on Tamiya's chassis direction

[hamtaro 101]

3 hours ago, Big Jon said:

The TD-4 will probably get a stand-up shock variant with an attractive body, as will the TD2. Hopefully, we’ll get different bodies for the laydown versions  and truck variants. While the TD isn’t a race chassis, it’s an interesting high performance kit that’s pure Tamiya and very high quality.

 

I had thought they might do a normal front end on the td2/4.  What would be good if they did them as one piece dedicated chassis out of carbon or alloy

[BuggyGuy 1140]

1 hour ago, hamtaro said:

I had thought they might do a normal front end on the td2/4.  What would be good if they did them as one piece dedicated chassis out of carbon or alloy

I can't see them doing a carbon or alloy chassis on anything less than an MSX edition kit - but normally you'd expect to see Pro/R/RR/MS spec versions first. If they moved to standup shocks up front they'd at least have the room to sort out the steering on the TD4.

[SuperChamp82 745]

Another TA02SW Porsche

TT02 hosted populist eye candy  

And a few TRF / TA08 pimped chassis that they should have sold 2 years ago 🙄

[Nick-W 1857]

16 minutes ago, SuperChamp82 said:

Another TA02SW Porsche

 

I think the Taison Porsche is the only kit I feel proper nostalgic for. I loved that car. I’d like the chance to buy one again. 
I spent a couple of hours trying to replicate it in Forza last year. 

[Kowalski86 4274]

43 minutes ago, SuperChamp82 said:

TT02 hosted populist eye candy 

I keep anticipating a TT03, or at least a "TT-02E", instead get more and more shells to pick from, and not always with their correct decals (Focus, Escort).

What I'd like to see is an entry level 2wd buggy (so less than $200), but still halfway decent out of the box with modern hardware/plastic and some level of adjustability, basically an updated Blitzer chassis.

[hamtaro 101]

34 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

What I'd like to see is an entry level 2wd buggy (so less than $200), but still halfway decent out of the box with modern hardware/plastic and some level of adjustability, basically an updated Blitzer chassis.

Yes, yes, yes that sounds perfect.  I'd buy one or 2 of those.  Why not release a budget friendly TRF 201XM?  They'll have the moulds.  201XM with bathtub chassis out of their new plastic, plastic CVA's, hex hardware and the classic tamiya plastic bushes/bearings.  Then if you wanted to go racing you could get all the hop ups you wanted and turn it into the full race spec 201XM which "should" in theory be competitive at club level still

[hamtaro 101]

I've almost talked myself into getting a comical avante as a basher

[BuggyGuy 1140]

1 hour ago, Kowalski86 said:

What I'd like to see is an entry level 2wd buggy (so less than $200), but still halfway decent out of the box with modern hardware/plastic and some level of adjustability, basically an updated Blitzer chassis.

 

25 minutes ago, hamtaro said:

Yes, yes, yes that sounds perfect.  I'd buy one or 2 of those.  Why not release a budget friendly TRF 201XM?  They'll have the moulds.  201XM with bathtub chassis out of their new plastic, plastic CVA's, hex hardware and the classic tamiya plastic bushes/bearings.  Then if you wanted to go racing you could get all the hop ups you wanted and turn it into the full race spec 201XM which "should" in theory be competitive at club level still

They could ReRe the DN01 (the plastic TRF201) and have a perfect competitor to the Kyosho DirtMaster and the GForce Genova.

As it's Tamiya they could have an upgrade pack like they had for the original 201 (but a more budget friendly version with a composite rather than alloy gearbox) to convert it to XM for those who want to race on carpet or astro.

Though TBH a 2022 Astue is available in the UK for £220 - and that's a good club car if you add the clutch and sort the diff (if only someone would make some decent rear hubs for it!)

Edit - really this highlights the problem, I race a Tamiya because I like them - but brand loyalty isn't near the top of most club racers list, right now you can get:

Yokomo SO 1 (Super Off-Road) - £299

Schumacher LD2 - £320

Associated B6.4 - £350

And that's just a taste of what's available for racing in 2WD - by the time you've hopped up a DN01 or TD2 with big bores, slipper, gear diff and anything else if your racing with the big boys at the local track you could have had an Xray, Schumacher, Associated, Losi, Serpent or S-Worx for similar money. The newer cars will be quicker as well as they've had years more development with team drivers and things have moved on even from the 211XM - which was Tamiya's pinical in off road 2WD competitive buggies. Not to mention local parts and setup support!

[Kowalski86 4274]

2 hours ago, BuggyGuy said:

Not to mention local parts and setup support!

Im not sure how Tamiya could go about it, but local parts would be very nice, heck I'd probably be more enticed to buy hop-ups if I could see them up close.

As it is I consider Tamiya RCs a bit "niche" here in the states unfortunately. Something about instant gratification.

[hamtaro 101]

Yep less than $200 more to get a Schumacher LD2 here over the td2 astute.  Sworkz 12-2m pro kit $699.95.  Sworks 14-3 $799.95  and they have full parts back up.

To get tamiya parts here including the td2/4 you are looking at buying off shore with the month long wait involved, or ordering from local shop which could be over a month wait depending if distributor has parts in stock, if not they get back ordered

[Sogogi 3361]

Yesterday I met a person who is running arrma truck. I told him that i have several tamiya cars, but he didn’t know what ‘tamiya’ is which i was quite surprised.. and not surprised at the same time. (He said he has 3 full size monster trucks)

[ChrisRx718 4701]

There's no point ever trying to second-guess what Tamiya will do, IMO.

Consideration should also be given to the preference for plastic from Tamiya - what with them being called Tamiya Plastic Model Co. - remember that R/C is just a part of what the company does. I often see comments on here and other forums asking why we don't see full-aluminium and carbon fibre chassis "in this day and age" - well, these materials are expensive and historically they haven't sold anywhere near as well as a plastic R/C kit equivalent. Why would the company make an investment like that without guaranteed returns?

We saw it in the 1:1 car world too; back when the GT86/BRZ was being developed in a time where cars were getting heavier, more complex etc. the adoring fans were all clamouring for lower weight, RWD, low entry cost and a coupe body. So Toyota / Subaru produced exactly that.

...then hardly anyone bought the cars. They weren't sales success stories. The very same "enthusiasts" who said they would buy one 'immediately' rushed out and bought things like Audi S3's and Golf R's citing higher power figures and better residuals as their main reasons. So much for being an "enthusiast".

The same thing goes here - if Tamiya invested in a new carbon/alloy TRF special, they might sell a few thousand, but still get beaten by smaller obscure outlier companies 'at the track' who don't have the same overheads, parts backup, worldwide support etc. The very same people who say they would rush out and buy a full-carbon DF-03 or a new DB-03RRRRR TRF MSX blah blah - they simply wouldn't. Because in order for Tamiya to bring something like that to market, with their exquisite literature (manuals), accessibility, quality control and marketing / packaging - the thing would cost an absolute fortune and those very same fans would simply revert to "but I can get such-and-such from fly-by-night company XYZ and it's half the price" (which inevitably will have parts availability for all of about 10 minutes). 

For me I just hope they get licensing to bring the Mini Cooper and BMW bodies back. I'm very happy with the BB-01 BBX, too - the quality is far ahead of their other models, but then so is the price - which you do still see complaints about.

[alvinlwh 7227]

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[Mad Ax 10586]

It's been interesting reading through this and getting other people's thoughts.  Even the digressions and tangents.

I personally don't think we'll see any serious racing stuff from Tamiya, at least not any time soon.  I could be wrong, this is only a guess, I just don't think they're interested in it.  As far as off-road is concerned, they've turned to their niche - quirky buggies that look different to the competition and offer something out of the ordinary.  The TD2 / TD4 and BBX are exactly this.  The BBX in particular with its retro look and styling is a perfect bookend to the releases of the last couple of decades - everybody has got totally into that vintage look and feel, and vintage racing here in the UK has gone crazy over the last half decade, but the list of possible re-res is getting shorter and a lot of people are confused or annoyed by the lack of performance or reliability from the re-res.  It feels like a logical step.  I for one hope Tamiya keep doing it.

The TD2 / TD4 fit that other Tamiya niche well - it's like they saw what all the other big brands were doing and said "Yeh, but no, we're going to do this instead."  Like they did with the Hotshot, Bigwig, Avante, except I don't think they were ever intended these to race - the days when a crazy off-the-wall design can revolutionise racing are long gone.  The problem is too well understood, the incremental gains are ever smaller, everything is becoming based off one homogenised design because it's what works.

Personally I hope we get some different bodies on the TD series - I don't really like the current offers.  An alternative front-end is a neat idea too, maybe we'll get that.  Some cool, realistic-looking cars on that neat, quirky chassis would be interesting.

But - @ChrisRx718 makes a totally valid point (and comparison with the GT86) - if Tamiya did what we're asking for, it would be too expensive.  And to be honest, that's where it is with me right now.  I love the BBX, but it's too pricy.  I loved the A60H and the Landfreeder Quadtrack, I wanted them as soon as they were announced, but I knew they'd be too spendy for me at RRP (in the end I got both, but only as they happened to appear at way knock-down prices).  Now, just maybe, the combined looks and performance of the BBX will put Tamiya back at the top of the market and they'll release 3 or 4 new models on the same chassis and bring the price right down, but somehow I doubt it.  The re-res might have ridden a nostalgia wave but can an all-new retro buggy keep it running, at premium prices?  I don't know about that.  Vintage racing is driving re-re sales here in the UK but the BBX isn't vintage, so it isn't eligible to race.  And while a one-make BBX race serious would be awesome, I doubt it would be anywhere near enough to impact overall sales figures.

[Kowalski86 4274]

Another idea, why not sell more TamTech buggies here in the US?

1/16-1/18 buggies/trucks are a thing apparently, and Losi has made smaller versions of their vintage stuff. Seems like an easy market for Tamiya to enter.