Pondering on Tamiya's chassis direction

[hamtaro 78]

Have been thinking on the the direction Tamiya might take their off road chassis direction now that 3 new designs are out :Td2, Td4 and BB01.

Td4 I guess will take over from the Df03 but I don't see the Td4 as such a versatile platform as the df03 to build anything majorly different off

Td2 is more advanced than Dt03 so wouldn't think its a replacement for that, so occupying same spot as original astute mid level 2wd?

Can't see anything like the aqroshot being built off the Td platforms

BB01 I can see being a one or 2 buggy thing kinda like the wild one/fav twins or rough rider/sand scorcher

Dt03 and TT02b are now old designs and need updating, will they update these even?

I'd love a higher end 2wd or 4wd buggy NOT based on the Td chassis so you could compete properly in stock and mod club level without worrying you'll break something every race day. 

Keep td4 as df03 replacement.  Df03 as the new tt02b, df03 is older tech but perfect for new entry level and they have all tooling existing. 

New 2wd chassis design to replace dt03

 

What are your thoughts/wishes.   Being Tamiya they will probably do the last thing anyone expects

[Willy iine 17939]

I have no idea what Tamiya is thinking next, but my wish have always been for Tamiya to do a modern TRF flagship buggy.

They already have a whole bunch of mediocre cars.. they need a car that can compete and win races.  .. so that I can build one or so and display in my pretendRCshop to admire.  

[Wooders28 4563]

The DF03 was/ is a really really old chassis (released 2006?) and must be one of the longest chassis running chassis in the tamiya catalogue? , but still a very capable buggy, I love mine, but getting spares is a getting tough.

It's had a good run, so yeah, the TD4 is the new kid on the block as it's replacement. Time will tell if we can build something else on it (sure a shorty lipo will fit across the width, to save faffing with removing the steering?) 

With the DT03 fairly cheap (Amazon had them for just over £60 at one point) , I can't see the TD2 taking its place, and with Tamiya naming the TD2, the Astute , with a price to match, its not aimed at the beginner market .

Tamiya had a go at competitive Off Road with the TRF511 in 2009, ( Lee Martin 2010) ,did quite well ,until they dropped the programme in 2013, not sure why though.

 

[Nick-W 1191]

A bit like @Willy iine has said in other threads I think/hope there will be a Super Egress version of the TD4 with some choice hop-ups and slight changes to the layout.

I think there might be a Stadium Truck TD2, or perhaps even a XV02 one. 

[Wooders28 4563]

7 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

so that I can build one or so and display in my pretendRCshop to admire

Mate not long sold, a prototype TRF, that Lee Martin helped develop when he drove for them , an absolute thing of beauty, but wayyy out of my price range..😬

[Saito2 6033]

If they fixed the few issues wit the DF03, I'd love to see it take over from the TT02B. I always felt Tamiya 4wd path was a bit awkward. The DF01 was supplanted by the DF02 (which was TT01 touring car based) in the line-up but the DF01 was more a more capable buggy. The DF03 was a move forward again, though quickly overshadowed by the even better DB-01. Now we've moved backward with a touring car based buggy again, the TT02B. But the TT02B is cheap (and probably cheap to produce), easy to assemble and fills many rolls in Tamiya's line-up.

I hate to say it, but I think the TD4/2 and BBX  is all we're getting at this point. We might see a fully optioned variant but IMHO, I doubt we'll see an even higher level buggy. The all-new TD series and BBX (and even the earlier CC02) represent a great deal of investment for Tamiya and I don't expect to see more designs from them for awhile in the current climate. I'd love to be wrong. Most likely we'll see other buggies based on these architectures (unless they are total sales failures like the DB02) in the future. These are purely speculations on my part. As far as things like the TT02B or DT03, if they continue with strong sales numbers, I don't see Tamiya ending production for the sake of innovation in these market segments alone.

[hamtaro 78]

Not sure the Td4/2 has been received as well as expected especially with the limited release pre-painted kits launched  as soon as they were,  Just my gut feeling, and they are hanging round on the shelves here too Astute is going for $499-$579 NZ dollars and super avante for $539 to $639 nz dollars.  Not worth the $$$ here in my opinion.

Would love them to have another shot at something like the DB line, or a factory DF03 all carbon with alloy chassis like true racer spec buggies.

I was out of the game when the DB line was released otherwise I would of picked one up, can still get DB01 from ebay but virtually no spares.  Have thought of a DF03 but again spares are an issue and is it THAT much better than the top force evo I have?

Failing everything they could make everything out of more durable materials

 

[Sogogi 2418]

I feel like df-03 is most 4wd buggy looking buggy in my opinion. (And technology wise, doesnt look that dated compared to tt02b…).

But as @hamtaro said, spare parts are almost like unobtanium. (Recently saw df03 slipper kit on japan auction.. and 10000+ yen).

Except old 4wd buggies(hotshot, thunder shot), I don’t see 4wd buggy kits frim tamiya that interests me.

 

 

[Kowalski86 2178]

If we get any new off-roaders, I expect them to be variants of the BBX or more "comical" stuff. It's just not nearly as much of a money spinner as on-road and "rally" cars.

Honestly, save for a few older models (TA02, Mad Bull), I'm looking at other manufacturers for my next RCs.

The BBX is neat but expensive, and as for the MB-01...I dunno, it looks like everything I don't like about the TT02 and the M06 mixed into a chassis with a weird pinion gear size.

2 hours ago, hamtaro said:

Failing everything they could make everything out of more durable materials?

Tamiya really needs to make their hop-up magnet cars out of better plastic. What use is a $20 servo mount when half of your screw holes are stripped or crossthreaded?

Its fine on re-res, where you're expected to run it occasionally or throw it on a shelf.

[hamtaro 78]

38 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

Tamiya really needs to make their hop-up magnet cars out of better plastic. What use is a $20 servo mount when half of your screw holes are stripped or crossthreaded?

Thats a quote of the year right there.  Was hoping to get something more inline of DB01 level from them, but alas no.  Looking at other manufacturers as well.

I have had a TA02, needed lots of work to de-slop it and if you brushed anything those self tappers that hold upper suspension links on strip quick smart.  Well they did running a dynatech in it

[sosidge 618]

Tamiya have no chassis direction. They release what they fancy.

Objectively, in terms of chassis performance and durability, Tamiya have slipped behind pretty much every other manufacturer. And on the rare occasion they have a new release in a mainstream category, it is miles behind the competition (think CC-02, TD4 & TD2).

What Tamiya consistently offer is a kit to build (otherwise rare outside the racing and crawler markets), a good looking body (although they are slipping back in that area as well), and an extensive range of own-brand option parts.

And granted, if you want something that is fun to drive with not much power, a Tamiya will give you that. Other cars feel slow and lifeless with a silver can motor in them, Tamiya's basic chassis feel on the edge of being out of control.

[ThunderDragonCy 7285]

I think you're being a little harsh on the TD2/4. I have a TD4 and had a DB01R and despite the quirky layout the TD4 is easily the same build quality in terms of plastics, and the adjustability and good diff options make it on par too. The steering and suspension links are a bit weird, but I don't think they are necessarily a deal breaker. I know one of the guys here had tried racing either a 2 or 4 and found some drawbacks, but as an occasional track day attendee rather than racer I think it's good. Plus, with the servo side mod you can run a shorty lipo up front and get pretty nice weight balance. I know "but you shouldn't have to mod" but ultimately we are all slightly iconoclastic wanting to run tamiya anyway, so a bit of modification shouldn't worry us. Spares and drivetrain robustness seem way better than df03. Main failure in my opinion is the utterly awful bodies. Quick easy cheap fix for tamiya is to run a couple more body styles on both chassis which don't look like a melted egg. 

Given the whole front end on TDx is bolt on, a different front module with regular shock tower, different arms (or maybe just Db01 arms) and better geometry would be relatively easy, but I can't see them doing it. 

DT03 and TT02B might be old, but they have a place because they are a cheap, easy kits to buy and in the case of the tt02b they have massive parts and hop up support. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with either of them given their position in the range. 

[Kowalski86 2178]

8 hours ago, hamtaro said:

I have had a TA02, needed lots of work to de-slop it and if you brushed anything those self tappers that hold upper suspension links on strip quick smart. 

Sounds just like my TT02, lots of slop and I've had several of them strip their screws on me.

I ended up removing the XV-01 from my list, since it strips upper suspension mounts (and wears out gears) without hop ups.

3 hours ago, sosidge said:

And granted, if you want something that is fun to drive with not much power, a Tamiya will give you that. Other cars feel slow and lifeless with a silver can motor in them, Tamiya's basic chassis feel on the edge of being out of control.

That's one part that I like about Tamiya, the old "driving a slow car fast". Works well when I'm too cheap to go brushless.

[Juls1 1616]

I’ve been racing the TD2 for awhile now, it’s fine on low grip off road tracks, but it is still a little too much rear weight bias. In terms of adjustability and general design quality it’s not actually short on much. While I’m not trying to win I’m having no issues staying mid pack amongst supposedly superior company.  While I’d still call it mid level, it should never be compared to DT chassis, that’s not what it is. It’s closer to a DN01 but it’s missing a TRF  sibling. 

what id like to see is a 4wd racing buggy based on the XV02 platform. Pretty easy, make a longer chassis, put long arms on it, tall shock towers. I don’t think you should call it a db03, because there is no TRF basis. But the layout is essentially proven and highly adaptable. 
 

as for a 2wd racing chassis, just re release the trf211xm. It’s not far enough out of date to prevent me racing it. 
 

 

[Raman36 1522]

12 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

I ended up removing the XV-01 from my list, since it strips upper suspension mounts (and wears out gears) without hop ups.

Apologies but that is the most absurd  comment I have read on the XV01. 
 

After 10 years of ownership, I have yet to replace the internal gears. Nor had any issue with upper suspension mounts.  I have raced the chassis on carpet, I have driven it on 1/8 scale off-road track taking their jumps, I have practiced with it on 1/5 scale track with 13.5 mod motor + timing. It’s travelled with me to 2 continents, been on every ski / snow trip in the past decade. Still has original chassis and gears.

The issue with these forums is inexperienced individual write about their problems after they make mistakes and do stupid things and blame the chassis. 
 

Ps: I’ve never ran or owned the slipper on it either 

[BuggyGuy 1090]

TT02B doesn't cut it for club racing unless your in a spec class that has everyone else also running a TT02B

DF03 is just a bit too weak

BB01 looks great - but it's never going to be a racer, it's too narrow, and trailing arm suspension is never going to cut it on the competition side

TD4 is good but complex, and not well suited to carpet racing.

TD2 is good and ok for club racing on most surfaces after a bit of fiddling - I think this could stay in the lineup for a long time, but not enough people run them for it to get a following (probably because of the cost of hopped up TD2 vs any competition buggy)

I think next we could see an XV02 based buggy, with a longer wheelbase and TD4 arms and hubs.

Would be nice to see a modernised DB01 - I would like Tamiya to return to making TRF buggies, but I can't see it happening unless they sign some world class talent to race them.

It's interesting that Kyosho have also got out of the competitive side of buggies as well - they've stopped producing the RB7 and ZX7.

[Kowalski86 2178]

3 hours ago, Raman36 said:

Apologies but that is the most absurd  comment I have read on the XV01. 

After 10 years of ownership, I have yet to replace the internal gears.

Well I'm glad that it's held up for you, I get a lot of my info from  @Nicadrausposts, who I wouldn't exactly call "inexperienced". They have also reccomended aluminium suspension mounts.

The spacer is a cheap part afaik, it's not like buying a $60 bellcrank setup. I just don't have the time/desire to shop/band-aid poor design decisions for something that's already expensive.

[Raman36 1522]

You can buy the aluminium mount or buy the hardened chassis mounts and you won’t strip it out. 

As for the “NN4” parts wear, and you can add shims to compensate or replace with metal one.. 

All in all, very small things to write of one of the best chassis Tamiya has released in past decade. 

[one_hit 1011]

The gears on my XV-01 have held up too, right now I have no desire to tear it down and change the spacers to metal. I do have a spare gear set to go on it if the gears do strip. Regarding the plastic suspension mounts, all Tamiya kits have them and will have to be upgraded to aluminum unless you have an “R” model. That’s just the way it is. My XV-01 Pro, FF-04 EVO, TA08 Pro all came with plastic suspension mounts while my TA05R, TA05 Ver. II R and FF-03R came with the hopup aluminum mounts. If you don’t want to buy kits with plastic mounts then your options are extremely limited. 

[Juls1 1616]

11 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

Well I'm glad that it's held up for you, I get a lot of my info from  @Nicadrausposts, who I wouldn't exactly call "inexperienced". They have also reccomended aluminium suspension mounts.

The spacer is a cheap part afaik, it's not like buying a $60 bellcrank setup. I just don't have the time/desire to shop/band-aid poor design decisions for something that's already expensive.

Been running xv01 since it first came out, never had the gearbox out. Has done every kind of abusive driving you could imagine.
 

I have broken the plastic suspension mounts, I also broke the carbon reinforced mounts. Alloy ones fixed it for me.  To be fair I only broke the mounts by actually hitting something immovable at speed on an angle. Neither the arm or pin or any other parts got damaged. In those kinds of impacts something has to break. The mount is cheap and upgradeable. 
 

I wouldn’t call a xv01 an expensive kit. Compared to buying a TT02 it’s very cheap given what it comes with and the performance increase. 

[Nicadraus 5721]

18 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

Well I'm glad that it's held up for you, I get a lot of my info from  @Nicadrausposts, who I wouldn't exactly call "inexperienced". They have also reccomended aluminium suspension mounts.

The spacer is a cheap part afaik, it's not like buying a $60 bellcrank setup. I just don't have the time/desire to shop/band-aid poor design decisions for something that's already expensive.

Thanks for the mention but like @Raman36 @one_hit & @Juls1, we all love our XV-01 and don't consider it expensive. Besides, improving the kits, whether it be a TT-02 or a TRF420, is part of the fun which takes up the performance into a higher level. I read on one of your coments that hopping-up kits or modifications is not exactly your cup of tea but to many of us, it's what excites us and building is half of the enjoyment of RC. Not just charging and driving. As for me personally, box-stock kits are so boring. Building it according to manual to me is very medeocre. No fun and skills there to be honest. Now the modification and custom building is what pushes my adrenalines. Especially when it turns out not only beautiful, but drives like a sweet charmer.

As from experience, a properly modified XV-01, TA-05 or FF-03 for example, defintely has the edge in performance if built well and balanced. Those blue bits that you see installed in our cars aren't just blings. They serve important purposes and functions. Makes the cars run with precision and better handling overall.

 Sorry for the off-topic @hamtaro 

[Kowalski86 2178]

1 minute ago, Nicadraus said:

Thanks for the mention but like @Raman36 @one_hit & @Juls1, we all love our XV-01 and don't consider it expensive. Besides, improving the kits, whether it be a TT-02 or a TRF420, is part of the fun and improvements which takes up the performance into a higher level.

Thank you for the well rounded description, the XV is just not on my list at this point.

For Tamiyas future releases, I can't help but think that they're going to do different takes on the BBX, with various throwbacks to their vintage buggies. Maybe even a few "collectors editions", with hop ups thrown in.

[Big Jon 642]

The XV-01 is probably the least flawed chassis Tamiya’s done. It does exactly what it is supposed to do right out of the box; the Pro kit did more, and if you want to go fast, it’s really cheap. It still drives better than it’s completion on a wide variety of surfaces (have not driven an XV-02 to compare)). They are just exceptional. I wouldn’t let the suspension mounts deter me , I’d just add them when building if I intended to run off-road much. I had been running my car hard with a hot boosted 13.5 for several years when I posted the NN4 spacer failure and fix on Ultimate RC - it’s the weakest spot in a strong transmission, not a fragile or defective part. Really fantastic chassis, can’t tell you how much I’ve enjoyed mine. It’s still my favorite runner, and still fun to tinker with. It’s a decade old now, and, with the exception of JIS screws, feels entirely modern. A Pro II kit would be great.

The TD-4 will probably get a stand-up shock variant with an attractive body, as will the TD2. Hopefully, we’ll get different bodies for the laydown versions  and truck variants. While the TD isn’t a race chassis, it’s an interesting high performance kit that’s pure Tamiya and very high quality.

 

[BuggyGuy 1090]

I raced my DB01(RRRish spec) today for the first time (yeah I need to finish the build thread!). My fellow racers were quite surprised at the performance.

It was easily as fast as the Xray XB4's - I need to work on the setup a bit more but I'm fairly confident I'm quicker with it than I am with my own XB4 - doing a regional next Sunday and now feel confident that it won't be a handicap like a TD4 would be on astroturf.

It's interesting that it still performs so well - but it's pretty much TRF5** geometry though, but unlike the TRF5** cars you can fit a shorty lipo and you don't need to sell a kidney to own one.

Would be nice to see Tamiya release an updated one of these, many parts (or compatible parts) are still in production. They could do a version with TRF420 gear diffs and be quietly confident in putting out a very good racer IMO.

[hamtaro 78]

4 hours ago, Nicadraus said:

Sorry for the off-topic @hamtaro 

No problems on going off topic, it's interesting and informative to see others experiences of the various chassis designs