Adjustability (or lack of it)

[Kowalski86 2170]

Disclaimer: If I am wrong about any of the chassis below feel free to correct me, I'm mostly going off of research, not real experience.

Some months ago I decided to shop other touring cars on the market, hoping for something "nicer" and more adjustable than my "budget" TT-02.

I looked at the 4Tec, Fazer, V100, and Apex2. The first two I've even looked at in person, I wasn't impressed by the lack of tuning options.

The one thing that I've noticed is that all four chassis come with pretty nice body shells, but otherwise have next to no adjustability, in a category that I kinda expect some adjustability from. Touring cars being about on-road handling and all.

The Apex2 is the most notable example, as its above $300, comes to us from Team Associated (who I thought are supposed to be a racing company)... and it has a brushed motor.

I don't get it, are tie rods just that hard to make on an RTR? Or is everyone trying to make their own (and vastly overpriced) take on the TT-01?

For the record, the Traxxas Slash (of all things!) has adjustments galore. And the Redcat/Exceed/Flying Fish isn't half bad either. Both being cheap, entry level RCs.

[alvinlwh 5286]

Try 3R S64 (if you still can find it) or the newer Cero Sport, more adjustments than I can shake a turnbuckle wrench at. Both about the same price as a TT chassis, no body or electronics, so you choose your own. Very cheap hopups if bought directly. In fact, buying directly from them from HK is the cheapest way. Completely different class compared to a TT.

Check out the instructions here to see if you like it.

https://3racing.shop/pages/cero-sport-maunal-pdf

So far, I had been very impressed with 3R.

[Tamiyastef 1629]

Was gonna suggest to take a look at 3Racing (S64 or other) but was beaten by @alvinlwh 

[Pylon80 1390]

2 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

Disclaimer: If I am wrong about any of the chassis below feel free to correct me, I'm mostly going off of research, not real experience.

Some months ago I decided to shop other touring cars on the market, hoping for something "nicer" and more adjustable than my "budget" TT-02.

I looked at the 4Tec, Fazer, V100, and Apex2. The first two I've even looked at in person, I wasn't impressed by the lack of tuning options.

The one thing that I've noticed is that all four chassis come with pretty nice body shells, but otherwise have next to no adjustability, in a category that I kinda expect some adjustability from. Touring cars being about on-road handling and all.

The Apex2 is the most notable example, as its above $300, comes to us from Team Associated (who I thought are supposed to be a racing company)... and it has a brushed motor.

I don't get it, are tie rods just that hard to make on an RTR? Or is everyone trying to make their own (and vastly overpriced) take on the TT-01?

For the record, the Traxxas Slash (of all things!) has adjustments galore. And the Redcat/Exceed/Flying Fish isn't half bad either. Both being cheap, entry level RCs.

I think entry level "scale-ish" touring cars are marketed towards the casual RC enthusiast who wants to drive a cool looking car in a parking lot or even on the street in front of his/her house. In that context adjustability could totally play against the product as an adjustable but poorly adjusted car will handle a lot worse (and get worse reviews) than a non-adjustable but tame and well mannered one.

The perfect example for Tamiya is obviously the TT-02 (and for M size, probably the upcoming MB-01). These are designed to be straightforward to build and handle decently for their intended purpose.

Obviously it is human nature to buy a cheap kit and then go on spending 1000$ on upgrades, sometimes as a slow bleed occurring over multiple years. It can be money wasted since a TA-08 would have been a much better car in the first place for half the money but it can also be a fun journey if you did learn about maintenance and setup and if you did manage to let your driving skills and perhaps RC interest evolve over these multiple years.

[sosidge 618]

2 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

I looked at the 4Tec, Fazer, V100, and Apex2. 

These are all budget chassis, none are "nicer" than a TT-02.

If you want to experiment with more adjustments you would need a pure race chassis or maybe a TA08-level Tamiya.

[Kowalski86 2170]

3 hours ago, sosidge said:

These are all budget chassis, none are "nicer" than a TT-02.

Other than some things, you're correct. Unfortunately they aren't cheap like a TT02!

[Bash 351]

I had an Xpress FT1S kit and I was very impressed with the adjustability and quality of the kit for only $110. I'd potentially caution against getting an entry-level race kit for just running around in parking lots or the like since most of them are belt-drive and have the belts completly exposed to loose gravel and dirt, and the smallest piece will foul up the belts. I'd take a look at the Xpress AT1S, while I don't own one, it seems to be a great kit for the price and has shaft-drive as well. https://www.thercracer.com/2022/12/xpress-at1s-build-review-tips-and.html

[Kpowell911 1224]

40 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

Other than some things, you're correct. Unfortunately they aren't cheap like a TT02!

Arent they RTR’s with bearings and oil shocks though?

 

My honest opinion? A budget touring car doesnt need adjustability. 90% of end users arent going to understand or care about toe in/toe out/camber etc, and the surface its used on is usually going to negate any successful set up changes. 

[Kowalski86 2170]

13 minutes ago, Kpowell911 said:

Arent they RTR’s with bearings and oil shocks though?

Bearings, oil shocks (though the V100 has friction dampers), and so-so electronics.

I guess my povs different, since I see on-road touring cars as "educational toys", where I like to experiment with different setups.

[Kowalski86 2170]

4 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

I think entry level "scale-ish" touring cars are marketed towards the casual RC enthusiast who wants to drive a cool looking car in a parking lot or even on the street in front of his/her house. In that context adjustability could totally play against the product as an adjustable but poorly adjusted car will handle a lot worse (and get worse reviews) than a non-adjustable but tame and well mannered one.

That is true, the other thing is that these are RTRs. So each individual car would have to be adjusted correctly from the factory (or risk bad reviews from people who don't know anything about tweaking settings).

[Kpowell911 1224]

1 minute ago, Kowalski86 said:

Bearings, oil shocks (though the V100 has friction dampers), and so-so electronics.

I guess my povs different, since I see on-road touring cars as "educational toys", where I like to experiment with different setups.

But at that level, bashing on an unprepared car park, tyres are 99.9% of the battle, anything else is just a bit of a gimmick

[Bash 351]

17 minutes ago, Kpowell911 said:

Arent they RTR’s with bearings and oil shocks though?

 

The Apex2 has bushings belive it or not, but it might be partial like some of the Element RC (also Associated) vehicles. 

I'd stay away from the 4Tec line, they aren't bad in any way, but the 2.0 uses different offsets front and rear and the 3.0 is larger than every other 1/10 touring car, and can't use any of the bodies or tires that are standard to every other 1/10 touring car.

[Kowalski86 2170]

10 minutes ago, Kpowell911 said:

But at that level, bashing on an unprepared car park, tyres are 99.9% of the battle, anything else is just a bit of a gimmick

You know, you may have a point.

For the next postal race, I have a really hopped up/adjustable M05 to run, and another that's largely stock. I'll compare the two and see how close they are.

I will say that my quickest car in the current round has very little adjustability, aside from tie rods.

[Kowalski86 2170]

Just now, Bash said:

The Apex2 has bushings belive it or not, but it might be partial like some of the Element RC (also Associated) vehicles. 

I'd stay away from the 4Tec line, they aren't bad in any way, but the 2.0 uses different offsets front and rear and the 3.0 is larger than every other 1/10 touring car, and can't use any of the bodies or tires that are standard to every other 1/10 touring car.

Bushings on a slow moving crawler are fine, but seem out of place on a brushed $300 touring car.

I've basically decided to stay away from Traxxas's line up, due to reasons like that. They're not aftermarket friendly.

[Kpowell911 1224]

6 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

You know, you may have a point.

For the next postal race, I have a really hopped up/adjustable M05 to run, and another that's largely stock. I'll compare the two and see how close they are.

 

6 minutes ago, Kowalski86 said:

You know, you may have a point.

For the next postal race, I have a really hopped up/adjustable M05 to run, and another that's largely stock. I'll compare the two and see how close they are.

Dont get me wrong, Im the same as you, I want to have that level of control. I want to feel like Im a mechanic for a pro level racing team, and feel like that 10 degree turnbuckle turn is going to be the difference between P1 and P5. However, in the real world, is probably is nothing other than placebo, hence why its not a big deal at this level

[Kowalski86 2170]

2 hours ago, Kpowell911 said:

 

Dont get me wrong, Im the same as you, I want to have that level of control. I want to feel like Im a mechanic for a pro level racing team, and feel like that 10 degree turnbuckle turn is going to be the difference between P1 and P5. However, in the real world, is probably is nothing other than placebo, hence why its not a big deal at this level

From what Ive noticed, tires, shock oil, and springs have been the main things that seem to make a difference.

Shock tower adjustments don't seem to make a big difference, just pre-load if anything.

[Nicadraus 5721]

On 8/29/2023 at 3:46 AM, Bash said:

I had an Xpress FT1S kit and I was very impressed with the adjustability and quality of the kit for only $110. I'd potentially caution against getting an entry-level race kit for just running around in parking lots or the like since most of them are belt-drive and have the belts completly exposed to loose gravel and dirt, and the smallest piece will foul up the belts. I'd take a look at the Xpress AT1S, while I don't own one, it seems to be a great kit for the price and has shaft-drive as well. https://www.thercracer.com/2022/12/xpress-at1s-build-review-tips-and.html

This! Blows off any of the entry level Tamiya and 3Racing kits.

[BuggyGuy 1090]

I think the TA08 is probably the most adjustable Tamiya you can get at the moment (unless your willing to spend TRF money) 

Though you probably still need to spend a few quid on a TA08 to get race worthy if you race high grip / high power.

(EDIT: Also TB05 is very adjustable and should still be available)

(EDIT2: TC01 is also very adjustable)

The smaller Asian manufacturers (Xpress/3Racing) have been upsetting the applecart lately, though setup support can be a challenge depending where you race. If you don't like Xpress cars, then the 3Racing Sakura series and it's successors are worth a look.

If you want a budget car from the established competition brands without spending big money I think your limited to:

- Yokomo BD11 (cheaper right now as new models just come out): https://www.rccarshop.co.uk/MRTC-BD11-1-Yokomo-BD11-Carbon-Chassis-Competition-Touring-Car-Kit

- Yokomo Rookie Speed: https://www.rccarshop.co.uk/RSR-010-Yokomo-Rookie-Speed-RS1-0-Assembly-Chassis-Kit

Most of the other competition brands like Xray, Awesomatix and Schumacher no longer have entry level kits.

Quite a few people at a nearby club have been singing the praises of Cartens lately as well: https://www.rccarshop.co.uk/NHA102-Carten-T410R

At the bottom end there's also the new car from FTX, that's a bargain by all accounts and looks somewhat adjustable: https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/ftx-1-10-touring-drift-car-roller-chassis-only-1350324

There's also the HPI, though you need to spend a a little extra on top of the kit price to get the parts that allow more adjustments: https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/hpi-rs4-sport-3-creator-edition-435337

 

I suppose the biggest question is what are you going to do with this car? Unless your putting a car around a track it's quite a challenge to measure the tangible effects of lot of adjustments.