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Tamiyastef

M-05 & M-08 duo rebuild/build

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Next up are the rear lower suspension arms, also using the TL-01 parts obviously :)

20230907_172214.md.jpeg 20230907_172523.md.jpeg

The attachment for the stabilizer already installed and the whole rear end bolted together.

20230907_172950.jpeg

Installing the rear dampers with only the BB1 step screws and F4 spacers

20230907_173345.jpeg

as I will be using the carbon damper stay that includes ball connectors

20230907_173204.jpeg

That's done

20230907_173813.jpeg

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We got to the electronics part of the build and will be using what I think are the last blue parts

20230907_174750.jpeg

The manual shows the general electronics installation similar in most Tamiya manuals

20230907_213838.md.jpeg 20230907_213845.md.jpeg

And apparently there has been made another change to the chassis before the change to the version 2 chassis

 20230907_174914.md.jpeg 20230907_213905.md.jpeg

During the original build I removed (cut off) the part of the ESC "tray" where you should screw the on/off switch so there's enough space for the brushless ESC. Note it isn't taped to the tray yet.

20230907_214543.jpeg

20230907_214554.jpeg

With this the M-05 build is almost finished (just the rear freewheeling axles, the wheels, body posts and body to go) and time get my focus back on the M-08.

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Opening screw bag C on the M-08 build has us officially passed the half way point in the chassis build and gives us the first steps on the front end

20230907_215200.jpeg

Front suspension arms

20230907_215619.md.jpeg 20230907_220205.md.jpeg

and mounting them to the chassis.

20230907_220449.jpeg

Already installing the base for the steering assembly before starting on the front axles.

20230907_221203.jpeg

20230907_221558.jpeg

All these shims on the axles  20230907_221922.md.jpeg made me take another look at the left side of the manual 20230907_222054.md.jpeg 20230907_222204.md.jpeg

This made me notice something I hadn't realised before. Each screw bag (for example screw bag C) contains several smaller bags with screws. Apparently Tamiya has them kind of labelled but don't put it on the bags... All items "named" MA come from the same small bag, this is the same for MB, MC,... If you keep the items from the same small bag together (and don't throw all items from screw bag C together in one tray) this makes it easy for knowing which (sometimes very similar) part exactly you need. Especially with all the almost identical shims this system makes life easier.

If you are aware of it. :D

I wonder why Tamiya doesnt label the small bags C1, C2, C3,... <_<

 

Now step 24 starts with making "two of these" but then splits up between left and right.

20230907_222422.jpeg

If you didn't drill all the 2,5mm holes at once the first time they asked you to drill one, it's time to get the dril out again for the C-hubs in step 25 and 26.

20230908_105036.md.jpeg

and after that there's some fiddling required with the C6 parts... let's say we're not friends :unsure: but I didn't bother gluing them together so that part is on me I guess... First for the left, later for the right side.

20230908_105048.jpeg

20230908_105057.jpeg

20230908_105747.jpeg

Next is attaching them on the chassis

20230908_110617.md.jpeg 20230908_111612.md.jpeg 20230908_111651.md.jpeg

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Next up: the electronics page with (believe or not) my first Tamiya High Torque servo saver. There's probably a very simple system for this but let me say those spring steel rings kept me busy for a while...

20230908_112315.jpeg

but it looks all okay

20230908_113435.jpeg

untill I check the dimensions for the servo mentionned in the manual... dimensions for mine are the ones written in pencil...

20230908_114239.jpeg

decided to try and build ahead, maybe the extra height doesnt interfere with anything later on. Or I need to take another look at that direct steering video on youtube. Used some spacers to mount the servo.

20230908_115116.jpeg

20230908_115435.jpeg

 

On to the bellcranck

20230908_121134.jpeg

20230908_121654.jpeg

So nice it's fully ball raced :), now getting it on the chassis and get the links installed

20230908_122013.jpeg

Jumped a few steps forward and did a "dry fit" of the parts that gets the pivot points of the bellcranck system secured,

20230908_122521.jpeg

Looks great IMO allthough completely different from the M-05...

20230908_122612.jpeg

Off course the stabilizer is still missing on the front of the M-08 but steering left and right reveals another difference :(

20230908_122527.jpeg 20230908_122533.jpeg

Steering is (very) limited, especially compared with the steering on the M-05

20230908_122620.jpeg 20230908_122624.jpeg

Take into account the steering on the M-05 is more limited now than it was before. The version 2 chassis moves the motor more to the middle and makes the steering knuckle hit the gearbox earlier than on the previous version.

 

This limited steering on the M-08 is more than likely all down to the height of the "low" profile servo that isn't all that "low" it seems. Checking some online stores the dimensions Tamiya asks for are never in the descriptions... so buying another "low" profile servo may turn out to be another (costly) bad buy. I think I'll have to look deeper into the "direct" steering solution.

Bummer. I had my mind set on comparing the stock (with exception of the stabilizers) M-08 with an all hopped-up M-05. Not so keen on making such a drastic change...  and don't make use of this beautiful precision made and ball raced bellcranck in reinforced plastic. :(

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1 hour ago, Tamiyastef said:

This limited steering on the M-08 is more than likely all down to the height of the "low" profile servo that isn't all that "low" it seems.

I can't quite see which part is limiting the steering. In any case, if you found that it was due to the servo being too high compared to the bellcrank, is there a way you could simply insert the required amount of spacer under a ball nut, i.e. under where MA10 meets part K2? (sorry I took a nice screen shot and annotated it but I got the usual "failure to upload" we have been getting over the past 2 weeks :( ).

 

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Not wanting to highjack a thread here my friend , but I’ve just had a look at my M08, (not the R though) and from what I can see the steering has a bit more angle..

IMG_5862.jpeg 

The only reason I can tell is that you had your concerns about the height of the Servo? It looks to me from your photos that the steering bridge is hitting the front two screws stopping it going any further.
On full lock on mine the bridge clears those screws.

Maybe take those screws out temporarily to see if you get any more angle. If you do using countersunk or something with a flatter head might work. 

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20230909_090056.jpeg

@Pylon80 this is a picture where you can see it is indeed the "bridge" of the bellcranck that doesn't clear the screws holding the servo because the servo is too high.

When I just leave the spacer in place (about the same thickness the lip on a servo is) you can see the bridge clears it.

20230909_090249.jpeg

20230909_090338.jpeg

It is just the grub screws that limit the steering then

20230909_090403.jpeg

@Re-Bugged you're completly right about the height of the servo being the problem here (btw mine's not an R either)

Before spending €50,00+ on another servo I'm gonna try to see if I can get the bridge of the bellcranck a little higher and use countersunk screws to mount the servo (or at least the two screws in front that is)

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2 hours ago, Tamiyastef said:

20230909_090056.jpeg

@Pylon80 this is a picture where you can see it is indeed the "bridge" of the bellcranck that doesn't clear the screws holding the servo because the servo is too high.

When I just leave the spacer in place (about the same thickness the lip on a servo is) you can see the bridge clears it.

20230909_090249.jpeg

20230909_090338.jpeg

It is just the grub screws that limit the steering then

20230909_090403.jpeg

@Re-Bugged you're completly right about the height of the servo being the problem here (btw mine's not an R either)

Before spending €50,00+ on another servo I'm gonna try to see if I canget the bridge of the bellcranck a little higher and use countersunk screws to mount the servo (or at least the two screws in front that is)

Oh I see it now. That's really annoying, Tamiya 😅 It sounds like you're headed in the right direction now. The CS screws would be the easiest solution (do not overtighten them else it might crack the case 😕). If you raise the bridge, you will probably need an equivalent amount of shims on the knuckles to avoid affecting bump steer (easy to do). Another solution could also be to remove material from under the bridge, if you feel like hacking a brand new kit 🫣

This discussion is exactly what makes these threads so useful.

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15 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:

This discussion is exactly what makes these threads so useful.

Yes indeed!

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Worked out a temporary solution, countersunk the screw holes in the servo lip and removed that little protrusion in the middle of that lip.

20230909_224718.jpeg

Put some washers between the bell crank arms and the bridge and backed of the pivot screws so their end is level with the bridge and not protruding underneath.

20230909_224815.jpeg

20230909_233109.jpeg

20230909_233141.jpeg

Steering is still limited somewhat (there remains a small gap of 0,5 to 1 mm between the grub screws and the c-hubs) but much beter IMO, see before and after pictures below.

20230908_122533.jpeg 20230909_225756.jpeg

 

This will have to do untill I can convince the wife I need (and deserve) another RC car, charger, some spare parts and a low profile servo which have been parked in my shopping cart for far too long now :D

This also means I can go to the next step which needs bag D to be opened :unsure: This is always feeling very double to me. The excitement to see the end result on the one side and a bit of disappointment and sadness on the other because I'm done building. 

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On 9/9/2023 at 2:54 PM, Tamiyastef said:

Worked out a temporary solution, countersunk the screw holes in the servo lip and removed that little protrusion inthe middle of that lip.

That looks nicely done.

On 9/9/2023 at 2:54 PM, Tamiyastef said:

backed of the pivot screws so their end is level with the bridge and not protruding underneath.

I think you backed off the ball studs so that the adjusters wouldn't hit the bridge at full droop? If you want to be able to tighten them properly and have them symmetrical too you can add a spacer under the heads (53539 would be perfect).

On 9/9/2023 at 2:54 PM, Tamiyastef said:

there remains a small gap of 0,5 to 1 mm between the grub screws and the c-hubs

The angle looks alright. It sure would be cool to be able to use the grub screws as they are a really neat feature. If you can measure the steering angle I think anything above 20deg on the inside wheel will be sufficient. If you don't have a setup station, a straight edge resting on the wheel will allow you to draw the angles on a sheet of paper 👌

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6 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

That looks nicely done

Thank you

 

6 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

ball studs

indeed, not the pivot screws but the ball studs and thanks for the suggestion of 53539, will get a set of those.

 

As for the steering angle; will see how it goes once it's up and running. If I feel it can't take the sharp postal racing corners well enough I'll take another look at it.

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On 9/8/2023 at 2:24 PM, Tamiyastef said:

Next up: the electronics page with (believe or not) my first Tamiya High Torque servo saver. There's probably a very simple system for this but let me say those spring steel rings kept me busy for a while...

20230908_112315.jpeg

but it looks all okay

20230908_113435.jpeg

untill I check the dimensions for the servo mentionned in the manual... dimensions for mine are the ones written in pencil...

20230908_114239.jpeg

decided to try and build ahead, maybe the extra height doesnt interfere with anything later on. Or I need to take another look at that direct steering video on youtube. Used some spacers to mount the servo.

20230908_115116.jpeg

20230908_115435.jpeg

 

On to the bellcranck

20230908_121134.jpeg

20230908_121654.jpeg

So nice it's fully ball raced :), now getting it on the chassis and get the links installed

20230908_122013.jpeg

Jumped a few steps forward and did a "dry fit" of the parts that gets the pivot points of the bellcranck system secured,

20230908_122521.jpeg

Looks great IMO allthough completely different from teh M-05...

20230908_122612.jpeg

Off course the stabilizer is still missing on the front of the M-08 but steering left and right reveals another difference :(

20230908_122527.jpeg 20230908_122533.jpeg

Steering is (very) limited, especially compared with the steering on the M-05

20230908_122620.jpeg 20230908_122624.jpeg

Take into account the steering on the M-05 is more limited now than it was before. The version 2 chassis moves the motor more to the middle and makes the steering knuckle hit the gearbox earlier than on the previous version.

 

This limited steering on the M-08 is more than likely all down to the height of the "low" profile servo that isn't all that "low" it seems. Checking some online stores the dimensions Tamiya asks for are never in the descriptions... so buying another "low" profile servo may turn out to be another (costly) bad buy. I think I'll have to look deeper into the "direct" steering solution.

Bummer. I had my mind set on comparing the stock (with exception of the stabilizers) M-08 with an all hopped-up M-05. Not so keen on making such a drastic change...  and don't make use of this beautiful precision made and ball raced bellcranck in reinforced plastic. :(

The SPT 4412 servo fits well... and they're cheap.

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image.png.a238242ad4e19174e9141b6e7fb114c9.png 

These are the dimensions given on the SPT site, I have problems with the Carson that's 19 mm where the SPT is 19,8 mm and the M-08 manual asks for 17 mm or less...

Have you fitted one of these in an M-08?

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Yes, I have. That's how I know it fits. :D And it's inexpensive enough ($20 USD, $9 USD at Aliexpress) that I use it in everything.

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Well, don’t listen to me. I just checked my M08 and evidently have the same problem and didn’t know. :blink:

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@cstorckiii Did you notice anything of the limited steering while driving it?

That is if you have driven it or is it a shelfer?

I wonder if I would have noticed it myself if I wasn't doing a build thread.

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I didn't notice anything off with the steering, but I haven't driven it much. And I spent about an hour last night fixing the issue.

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16 minutes ago, cstorckiii said:

fixing the issue.

Which route did you go? Other servo, spacers, direct steering? 

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Issue 1: the screws. My M08 kit came with a couple of extra super thin head screws ( MC 4), so I used those at the front of the servo.

Issue 2:  the servo itself. With the servo sitting higher than it should the steering arms at the front bearings hit the front corners of the mounting tab on the servo. I removed the servo and rounded the front corners down with my Dremel and shoved the servo as far back as it would go. It swings lock to lock now.

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On 9/11/2023 at 3:19 AM, Pylon80 said:

That looks nicely done.

Looks even nicer now, thanks again for mentioning the 53539.

20230911_214657.jpeg

20230912_180837.jpeg

 

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Next step on the M-08 (number 32) not only requires screw bag D (the last one :() to be opened up but also which wheelbase will be used. I'll be building the L variant with the 239mm wheelbase. While this is an "M" chassis it has a longer wheelbase then the TA-03RS (IIRC 237mm) which is considered a touring car :unsure: 

20230910_144003.jpeg

The S/M/L version you choose determine where these posts and bridges go on the two chassis' halves

20230910_144039.jpeg

Posts installed, and the bridges too

20230910_144620.md.jpeg 20230910_145208.md.jpeg

Next up is the front damper stay and attach it to the front bulkhead

20230910_145417.jpeg20230910_145732.jpeg

For the time being I skip the body post installation. On the left of the manual the front stabilizer is mentionned

20230910_145428.jpeg

so time to get the specific manual and parts for that:

20230910_175455.jpeg

and get it istalled

20230910_175654.jpeg

In the same step the steering rod is made

20230910_174124.jpeg

Installation of the front bulkhead and the steering rod

20230910_185713.md.jpeg 20230910_194701.md.jpeg

Electronics will be for tomorrow...

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Back to the workbench and the M-05. I used some of the 53539 spacers on the M-05 as well to replace the split F4 parts and the black damper spacers I first used to replace them...

20230911_222103.jpeg

I can't have too much blue on this M-05 so I changed the spacers behind the shocks to blue as well :D

20230911_222135.jpeg

20230911_222151.jpeg

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