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TurnipJF

Modernising the Group C Mercedes C11 (47484)

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15 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

I may be wrong, but from my understanding it is a tuning aid, to allow you to add slightly more width to the tyre should you want extra grip at that end. 

Creating one's own foam tyres is a black art that I have only lightly dabbled in, but I gather you can do all sorts of things like putting a harder compound on the outer edge to reduce the chances of grip roll, varying the width of the tyre and the resulting contact patch to fine-tune grip if the level you want is in between two different grades of rubber, etc.

A black art and probably a lost one too. I must say I am quite excited by the whole foam tire thing 😃

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On 10/10/2023 at 5:22 PM, TurnipJF said:

Basically, if you can run a touring car, you can run one of these on the same surface.

You're not helping me not get one of these!

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On 10/13/2023 at 7:58 PM, EvilSpike said:

You're not helping me not get one of these!

Sorry! Let me see if I can change that.

The car's handling is extremely precise. It does exactly what you tell it to, even if you tell it to do something silly. Do you really want a car that highlights any errors you make? Wouldn't it be better to have something a bit less precise, that you can blame if things go wrong?

This is a big car - longer and wider than most touring cars - yet it weighs less than an M-05. You can fit almost any 1/10 running gear you like thanks to the spacious tub and unobstructed motor mount, but you don't need a particularly strong motor or powerful ESC to make it run well. Wouldn't you prefer a car that gives you a reason to invest in fancy expensive running gear?

Related to the above, it is very nimble - much like a 1/10 F1 - which makes it not only usable, but also highly enjoyable on a small, tight circuit. Isn't it better to get something that is only usable on large, open tracks, to give you the motivation to drive miles to visit them?

It is a pretty old design, but still compatible with most modern upgrades and consumables, so keeping it going is easy. Wouldn't you prefer the challenge of hunting down rare NOS components from far-off places, and the thrill of not knowing if they will be any good by the time they reach you?

Finally, this car is a hoot to drive. So much so that you may find yourself wanting to drive it more than anything else in your fleet. Is that really fair on your other cars?

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Gone is the 25mm motor fan, which worked adequately but looked a bit anaemic in my opinion. In its place we now have a 40mm item which is big enough to blow air through both sets of vents in the motor can, and also makes full use of the bracket's mounting holes. (I didn't like the looks of the unused holes with the 25mm motor fan installed.)

2023-11-13_09-38-34

 

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If anyone fancies adding roll damping to their Group C, but has been put off by the eye-watering price of doing so with TRF parts, here is a far more affordable option from Schumacher which gives results comparable to those achieved with the 54413 TRF alloy high-efficiency roll dampers.

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-side-damper-set-atom-446062

Under £20 for a pack of two!

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3 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

If anyone fancies adding roll damping to their Group C, but has been put off by the eye-watering price of doing so with TRF parts, here is a far more affordable option from Schumacher which gives results comparable to those achieved with the 54413 TRF alloy high-efficiency roll dampers.

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-side-damper-set-atom-446062

Under £20 for a pack of two!

Great minds think not always alike, but similar :)This is what I will use on mine:

1622310064_PXL_20231130_1443180692.thumb.jpg.75eec89c0f6a114ab8139a61b323bf51.jpg

I used to own a Roche F1 Evo (fantastic chassis!) and I remembered these nice dampers and I was able to track down a set on eBay.

 

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1 hour ago, Pylon80 said:

Great minds think not always alike, but similar :)This is what I will use on mine:

1622310064_PXL_20231130_1443180692.thumb.jpg.75eec89c0f6a114ab8139a61b323bf51.jpg

I used to own a Roche F1 Evo (fantastic chassis!) and I remembered these nice dampers and I was able to track down a set on eBay.

 

Those should do the trick nicely. 👍

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This is an interesting and very well written thread. It' s stimulating to read it while I gather info for my own C11 build. The roll damping part especially... the group C cars may look like a basic chassis at first, but there's so much to learn.

Thanks for sharing all the info. Your C11 turned out real nice! Good to hear that it's also rewarding to drive.

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If you don’t mind a quick question @TurnipJF? What size turnbuckles and connectors did you use. I tried the open face ball connectors and Yeah Racing 50mm one side, 40mm the other (I think…) and they’re rubbing the chassis quite a bit. I was hoping it would be a bits box solution but it looks like I might be out of luck. 

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10 hours ago, Nick-W said:

If you don’t mind a quick question @TurnipJF? What size turnbuckles and connectors did you use. I tried the open face ball connectors and Yeah Racing 50mm one side, 40mm the other (I think…) and they’re rubbing the chassis quite a bit. I was hoping it would be a bits box solution but it looks like I might be out of luck. 

I used Tamiya 5mm adjusters and ball studs, 50596 adjusters with 9804154 ball studs on the outboard ends and 50875 adjusters with 9804205 ball studs on the inboard ends. The turnbuckles were Schumacher M3 items in 39mm and 56mm.

I also used the rearmost holes on the uprights, and a high torque servo saver with the ball studs facing forwards, and the servo was mounted behind the posts, all of which also affected the track rod location and probably helped avoid rubbing.

image.thumb.png.5ae300e65b040fa317a8bf64bf86a1ef.png

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11 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

I used Tamiya 5mm adjusters and ball studs, 50596 adjusters with 9804154 ball studs on the outboard ends and 50875 adjusters with 9804205 ball studs on the inboard ends. The turnbuckles were Schumacher M3 items in 39mm and 56mm.

I also used the rearmost holes on the uprights, and a high torque servo saver with the ball studs facing forwards, and the servo was mounted behind the posts, all of which also affected the track rod location and probably helped avoid rubbing.

Brilliant! Thanks so much. 

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There have been some really impressive builds of the Mercedes C11 and its relatives of late and I for one would be very interested to see how they stack up against each other in a bit of friendly competition. Shall we have a Group C subclass in the postal races at some point? Everybody who has a Group C is welcome to enter, whether a recent build or not, and of course the field is open to everybody else too, but as with the sub-540 motor challenge two rounds ago, the Group C results will be collated and posted in addition to the overall ones.

What say you, @Chris.B, @Ferruz, @Pylon80 and other Group C drivers?

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44 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

There have been some really impressive builds of the Mercedes C11 and its relatives of late and I for one would be very interested to see how they stack up against each other in a bit of friendly competition. Shall we have a Group C subclass in the postal races at some point? Everybody who has a Group C is welcome to enter, whether a recent build or not, and of course the field is open to everybody else too, but as with the sub-540 motor challenge two rounds ago, the Group C results will be collated and posted in addition to the overall ones.

What say you, @Chris.B, @Ferruz, @Pylon80 and other Group C drivers?

@TurnipJF I have been thinking about something Group C related but refrained from proposing anything out of fear of derailing Postal Racing, which is too good and too unique to derail ;)

So what I had in mind was a format that would capture the spirit of LeMans endurance racing better than 5 min stints. How feasible would it be to run the cars on something like the current month's postal track scaled up by a factor of 1.5 or 2 and run for 30min or even an hour? In my experience any lipo would yield that sort of run time. Counting laps might require a smart phone and tripod which some are already using I'm sure. Any motor and any chassis mod would be welcomed and the only imperative perhaps would be to use foam tires to stick to the original Tamiya group C chassis design and 'heritage'.

This is just a thought that may not be practical for everyone, for instance if people wish to use NiMh and own only one battery, or if space constraints preclude scaling up the Postal track etc.

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wtcc5 entered the chat :lol:

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28 minutes ago, wtcc5 said:

wtcc5 entered the chat :lol:

Is this because I wrote "any chassis mod"? :D

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… yes, and I got this:

IMG-2153.jpg


IMG-2155.jpg

And the concept of 30-60 minutes sounds fun for a day of parking lot racing.

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@TurnipJF that's certainly a good idea (says me who's been missing out on the last few Postal Races, but the enthusiasm is all there).

I only have one issue: I literally have no clue about where I'll be able to run my C11 once it's ready 😅 I've been thinking about it since before I even got the car, and I still have no idea. Street/road/parking lot conditions around my area do not allow the luxury of running such a low clearance chassis without the inevitable damage (cracks, pebbles, debris, all made worse by the severe climate), and the only doable surface I can think of is the inner parking lots, which are usually private, surveilled and just beautifully packed with aggro people and show stoppers of all kinds (me and friends used to hit them with our longboards in the winter, and get chased away like zombies).

It's no coincidence I mostly run off roaders!

I do know of a place where there's an indoor drift club, fellas there seem friendly if anything. I think they used to have some sort of figure of 8 practice track, so maybe once I'm done the car I will summon up the courage to show up there and ask them if they know of a good place.

Maybe I'll even get lucky and get to drive the C11 on their practice track. In fact, I need to learn how to drive this thing before I start thinking about racing it :lol:

Anyway the idea is great.

Also, I'm on NiMh, so anything beyond 15 mins would require pit stops for me.  Just saying :)

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On 3/16/2024 at 1:10 AM, Pylon80 said:

@TurnipJF I have been thinking about something Group C related but refrained from proposing anything out of fear of derailing Postal Racing, which is too good and too unique to derail ;).

The track we had for Round 2 (page 5, of RbP) might work for you, it was a whopping 20m’s long 🏎️💨

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On 11/13/2023 at 2:43 PM, TurnipJF said:

Gone is the 25mm motor fan, which worked adequately but looked a bit anaemic in my opinion. In its place we now have a 40mm item which is big enough to blow air through both sets of vents in the motor can, and also makes full use of the bracket's mounting holes. (I didn't like the looks of the unused holes with the 25mm motor fan installed.)

I am looking at the picture of your motor pod with the fan installed but can't quite figure out what the fan is attached to. Do you have a bracket mounted to the motor itself by any chance? I think I will need a fan for my Formula Tuned motor and I am looking at options to fit a 40mm fan myself. Thanks :)

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1 hour ago, Pylon80 said:

I am looking at the picture of your motor pod with the fan installed but can't quite figure out what the fan is attached to. Do you have a bracket mounted to the motor itself by any chance? I think I will need a fan for my Formula Tuned motor and I am looking at options to fit a 40mm fan myself. Thanks :)

Yes, the fan is mounted to the motor via a pair of slim alloy brackets. I didn't want to add more weight than necessary to the pod, so I went for the lightest ones I could find. 

I originally bought one of these fan/bracket combos:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156124871639

This fitted fine but didn't provide much airflow, so I swapped the little fan for a 40mm Yeah Racing one. This provided plenty of airflow, but the bracket only supports one side of the fan and a 40mm unit was a bit wobbly. 

So I bought another fan/bracket combo, used the little fan elsewhere, and fitted the second bracket to support the other side of the fan. All nice and stable now, and still lighter than most fan/heatsink arrangements. 

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3 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

Do you have a bracket mounted to the motor itself by any chance?

Here are a couple of pictures:

2024-03-25_10-18-08

 

20240325_210809

 

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Thanks for the pictures @TurnipJF! If budget were unlimited I would get a blue Exotek fan mount bracket :) but I think I will stick with the current theme of my build and make an inexpensive/lightweight/stealth bracket out of black styrene. The kit wing mount has a nice horizontal flat surface that seems suitable to hold the bracket with a couple of M2 screws ...sound of Pylon80's mind churning... ;)

 

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2 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:

Thanks for the pictures @TurnipJF! If budget were unlimited I would get a blue Exotek fan mount bracket :) but I think I will stick with the current theme of my build and make an inexpensive/lightweight/stealth bracket out of black styrene. The kit wing mount has a nice horizontal flat surface that seems suitable to hold the bracket with a couple of M2 screws ...sound of Pylon80's mind churning... ;)

 

That could work. The flat area is probably big enough for you to use servo tape to mount your bracket if you think you might change your mind one day and want to avoid screw holes in the wing mount.

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