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[alvinlwh]

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[BuggyGuy]

I've not had any issues with the quality on any Tamiya kits I've built stock other than the lunchbox mini (I think the metal driveshaft cross joints should have been included in the original kit).

My local club does run a TT02 class and we did have some front dogbones fall out in some of the bigger offs (but I think that's kind of expected when racing and the club subsequently allowed front UJs) 

I've built the following with zero problems when running: M07R, XV01, TT02, TT02B, DB01, DN01, TRF201, TRF211, CR01, CC02, TA08, TA05. 

I have subsequently upgraded most of them - but didn't have any problems running stock. 

I'm thinking about doing a VQS, Top Force, Avante or Egress next - they will be older designs compared to the rest of the stuff I've built, so will be interesting to see how they compare. 

 

[OoALEJOoO]

Maybe I've been lucky but although many people frequently mention that dog-bones popping out is a common occurrence, I've never experienced this on the MF-01X (ground clearance even higher than the manual's high) or in TT-01/2 cars. The only Q/A or design problems I can recall encountering are:

1. Re-re Monster Beetle. Its universals are designed incorrectly, with the dog-bone pins at each end aligned with each other (as opposed to 90deg with one another), thus amplifying torque oscillations and creating horrible wobble. Probably this one of the reasons that lead to the eventual dreaded gearbox clicking. The Re-re Blackfoot rectified this, but the Monster Beetle as far as I can tell remains uncorrected. @alvinlwh, perhaps the universals you used on your M-05Ra have aligned dog-bone pins, as this design is common with Tamiya and other brands since it does work on low-angled suspensions.

2. CC-01 and its infamous rear axle where its differential can move axially and disengage from the axle shaft, stripping its splines. I can't believe Tamiya after all these years has not incorporated the easy fix of placing a spacer behind the diff.

Other than that, I can't recall encountering any issues that I would call lack of good design or Q/A, this is after building and running 40+ Tamiya cars of many different chassis types. There are plenty of cost-cutting decisions on their kits, but these are part of their product placement & business strategy more than actual design flaws.

 

[Kowalski86]

When I was restoring my Frog, one of the most annoying stumps was when I decided to "upgrade" to a set of modern dogbones from the "crummy old unreliable hex drives".

After trying many fixes (suspension limiting, o rings, pen springs), I reinstalled the several decade old hex drives with some new grease, they've held up fine.

My "rally" TT02 once lost a suspension ball, and twice the front dogbones going over the same terrain that my Tamiya buggies take without any complaints.

My MF-01X would let go of its rear dogbones and randomly loose mesh with the motor over minor bumps.

To me these are quality issues because...well, imagine buying a lawnmower and having the wheels fall off every 5 minutes, because you didn't buy the $60 aluminum axle uprade.

I do believe that all Tamiyas are tested, just in very controlled environments and short runs.

I'm not happy with some newer releases though. The M05 and M06 (however flawed they are) just work, they're good designs. I don't mind the MB-01 being incapable of beating an M08 on a track, but I like my toys to, you know, stay in one piece.

[alvinlwh]

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[Willy iine]

Dog bones okay on my Tamiya cars.  

I’ve  built a couple of Tamiya’s this year including M06L, TRF420X, XV02-Pro, XV01, F104 Pro2, BHM WildOne, MB01.. and that vintage rere Buggy..forgot the name.. assembly was fine and as expected at the price ranges they fall under.  

[Gebbly]

Many years ago when I was still in school and got my first car, a hotshot, I had no other experience of building RC cars. My dad and I stuck religiously to the instruction manual. Without the internet to fall back on, if parts just fell off like a dogbone we would have spent a lot of time just disassembling and reassembling based on the instruction manual. If it didnt work I think we would have taken it back to the store as faulty and tried for a refund. It is a real shame that some Tamiya kits at the moment seem to have what appear to be design flaws that a lot of people stumble on. I can certainly see it putting some newcomers off the hobby.

After spending some time on this forum and building my little GF-01 with a lot of advice from you guys I wouldnt even consider buying a new kit without first reading up here and elsewhere to see if a kit I had my eye on had any known faults and if there were any suggested fixes. I am on my second kit now, a TT02 and did a bunch of reading before hand and added several extras to my purchase to try and avoid problems in the initial build. It is a shame that this felt necessary.

I was very tempted by the MF01X but I have read so many accounts of similar problems it really made me reconsider the purchase.

Some of the problems I have read about such as the MF01X seem so ingrained in the design choices that there would be no easy way for Tamiya to rectify the problem. For example they couldnt release a MF01x.a which including an extra part that solved an issue. The problems seem like they would need much more of a redesign and once a kit has released I cant see that being done.

It really is a shame because I really like the Tamiya company and their products for many reasons and this feels like a bit of a misstep that could lose them new customers.

[toyolien]

50 minutes ago, OoALEJOoO said:

1. Re-re Monster Beetle. Its universals are designed incorrectly, with the dog-bone pins at each end aligned with each other (as opposed to 90deg with one another), thus amplifying torque oscillations and creating horrible wobble. Probably this one of the reasons that lead to the eventual dreaded gearbox clicking. The Re-re Blackfoot rectified this, but the Monster Beetle as far as I can tell remains uncorrected

I thought that the re-re Monster Beetle and Blackfoot came with the same "Frog" universal shafts?

[IXLR8]

I think many of the problems we find with early models can be traced to poor design.

 

[OoALEJOoO]

23 minutes ago, toyolien said:

I thought that the re-re Monster Beetle and Blackfoot came with the same "Frog" universal shafts?

The Re-re Monster Beetle does come with the Frog universals (bad design with pins aligned) but the Re-re Blackfoot has its pins corrected (90deg). More info on this thread (you might want to read through the thread as further along there is a confirmation by @Kol__ who swapped to BF universals and the wobble was eliminated):

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?/topic/103064-do-i-want-a-monster-beetle/&do=findComment&comment=944872

[Kowalski86]

3 hours ago, IXLR8 said:

I think many of the problems we find with early models can be traced to poor design.

 

Many of the problems with older designs, came from experimenting and no real "templates" existing at the time.

Neither the RC10 nor the TC3 had been invented for everyone to do their own spin on. Everyone was basically studying full size buggies/trucks, and shrinking them down a bit.

[alvinlwh]

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[OoALEJOoO]

51 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Your MF-01X is a curious case, most of the complaints I see online is that chassis spitting out dogbones and even universals at high setting.

Can't recall but I think I have my MF-01X with one o-ring inside the cup on each side of the dog-bones to ensure they remain somewhat centered between the two cups.

[Busdriver]

The MB01 steering and body rub situation comes to mind. Who built and ran these before they were released. Surely Tamiya have some very experienced drivers that they can call on to iron out basic issues. If they’re short of people I’m due to retire from the bus company soon. First class flights to and from Japan say 3,times a a year for track testing🤞🏻

[JimBear]

1 hour ago, Gebbly said:

It is a real shame that some Tamiya kits at the moment seem to have what appear to be design flaws that a lot of people stumble on. I can certainly see it putting some newcomers off the hobby.

I wouldn't call myself a total beginner, but some of the flaws does put me off buying some cars, like say, a Frog. Obviously, it is an old (vintage, dude!) design so maybe that is something to take into account, but if you have to buy the "aluminium axle upgrade" to reliable drive it, well, I am going elsewhere. I guess Tamiya needs a few more seven-year old testers (and @Busdriver of course).

[Kowalski86]

3 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

In that case, they are rereing bad products without any improvements or corrections. With no warning and an entry level price point, a complete beginner can very well buy to be hit with the problems.

You're not wrong there.

Thing is, Tamiya does try to "improve" some of the re-releases...they're just not improvements in the right areas, or downgrades.

As for your theory about Tamiyas machines/molds for metal parts wearing out. Another neat "quirk" of the re-re Frog is that the front axles are too short, and the front wheels like to come off.

I also remember having a re-re Lunchbox with a rear axle that was just a tad off diameter, so the wheel hub wouldn't stay secured.

This might be why newer Tamiyas use a lot of plastic.

[SlideWRX]

4 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

In that case, they are rereing bad products without any improvements or corrections. With no warning and an entry level price point, a complete beginner can very well buy to be hit with the problems.

You are right, and that reflects poorly on Tamiya in my opinion.    The re-re is an opportunity to fix obvious problems.  I'm not saying everything has to have oil shocks and bearings, but things like those  driveshafts should have been fixed.

[TurnipJF]

I wouldn't say it has gone downhill - rather, I'd say it has always been a bit bumpy. They have been making excellent kits and problematical ones side-by-side for decades.

[Willy iine]

4 hours ago, Busdriver said:

The MB01 steering and body rub situation comes to mind. Who built and ran these before they were released. Surely Tamiya have some very experienced drivers that they can call on to iron out basic issues. If they’re short of people I’m due to retire from the bus company soon. First class flights to and from Japan say 3,times a a year for track testing🤞🏻

Nice!  If I submitted my candidacy, they will probably put me in cargo at best.  

[isomer1]

Maybe it comes down to expectations. I consider Tamiya basically 'fun junk'. I love the junk for some inexplicable reason, but it is junk.

TT-02/TT-02B: the gearbox is molded in to the chassis giving rise to all manner of issue.

CR-01: the suspension interferes with chassis frame, limiting the compression by nearly half the available range.

Clodbuster: I know, I know, people love it. But who runs it stock regularly? It couldn't even steer usably when launched, that took another decade for servo technology to catch up.

GF-01: I love it. But what a dumb design. You basically have to disassemble the entire model for most issues.

General: Soooo many screws in to soft plastic. Why? Captive nuts are a thing. They should be be present in all but the most trivial attachments.

General: Gearbox as a structural component. This is just a bad idea - and it's a bad idea at the heart of most Tamiya models.

[Pylon80]

9 minutes ago, isomer1 said:

giving rise to all manner of issue

 

9 minutes ago, isomer1 said:

Gearbox as a structural component. This is just a bad idea

Would you mind expanding on the issues you have seen with this? Not challenging anything... just curious as I haven't had issues, yet I suppose, with this.

[TurnipJF]

36 minutes ago, isomer1 said:

General: Gearbox as a structural component. This is just a bad idea - and it's a bad idea at the heart of most Tamiya models.

Gearboxes and even engines are used successfully as stressed members in fullsize sports and race cars. Why is it a bad idea in model form? (Not trying to be argumentative, just curious.)

[Kowalski86]

1 hour ago, SlideWRX said:

You are right, and that reflects poorly on Tamiya in my opinion.    The re-re is an opportunity to fix obvious problems.  I'm not saying everything has to have oil shocks and bearings, but things like those  driveshafts should have been fixed.

I (and many others) would have welcomed ball diffs in the ORV re-releases. Instead MIP had to make the fix. But hey, come next 1/10 Buggy carpet race and my Frog will surely "put me in the winners circle!".

58 minutes ago, isomer1 said:

TT-02/TT-02B: the gearbox is molded in to the chassis giving rise to all manner of issue.

Isn't the TT-02s gearbox supposed to be pretty solid?

[alvinlwh]

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[Kowalski86]

2 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

I think the issue is the screws (again!), open up the gearbox enough times to do maintenance/adjustments and the holes will strip needing a complete chassis change?

That was an issue with a few of my TT02s, and Im always careful to avoid cross-threading.