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alvinlwh

Stainless steel screw pins?

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Do they exist?

The TL-01/M-05 shaft sets had other been recommended as a replacement for the screw pins for a good reason. The screw pins rust. However, on some chassis (like the Thunder Shot), this is not possible due to some blind suspension holes. Do stainless steel versions of such screw pins exists? I typed in screw pin into Google and Ali and the results are just not what is needed. What is the proper industry name for such screws? I do not think Tamiya custom make them but surely must be using off the shelf hardware?

On the same note, the shafts in the hopup set that are secured by e-clips, what is the industry name for them? I am sure they are used in many applications outside of Tamiya. 

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You can use suspension shafts througout. I did that in my TD last year. You have to take off the gear covers for the propshaft. Then you xan fiddle the E-clip on inside the gear housing. It went after some attempts and without any E-clips going into orbit. 

 

I found a pick of the operation in the excellent wtcc5 thundershot buggy family thread.

 

 

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As I run cars more and more... I don't like screw pins more and more... luckily, most of cars I have (except grasshoppers), there are stainless shafts replacements.. so in the process of replacing one by one..

However I wish they do have stainless version of screw pins... 

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Suspension pin, suspension shaft, or in the wider hardware world headless clevis pin with retaining ring grooves. However, finding sizes that will work is the biggest issue.

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4 hours ago, cstorckiii said:

Suspension pin, suspension shaft, or in the wider hardware world headless clevis pin with retaining ring grooves. However, finding sizes that will work is the biggest issue.

These might be names for the hop-up suspension pin parts, but the OP was asking about the technical name for the standard parts (the screw pins, which don't have retaining clip grooves).

I'm not sure what they are called but I don't see why they can't be a custom part made by, or for, tamiya, considering all of the other metal parts in tamiya cars that are not off the shelf items. 

If you have access to a lathe (or know someone with one) you might be able to find a 'normal' screw and just turn down the remainder of threads along the length of the shaft to create something similar. (maybe this is how tamiya makes them...)

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1 hour ago, rich_f said:

I'm not sure what they are called but I don't see why they can't be a custom part made by, or for, tamiya, considering all of the other metal parts in tamiya cars that are not off the shelf items. 

Actually I just had an idea this morning and use Google image search on a picture of a Tamiya screw pin and it turns out they are, at least visually, similar to "hinge pin" and "screw shaft" that are used outside of RC. I will have to look into this further as those search terms are still not very useful and will turn up a large number of irrelevant results.

Do not have acces to a lathe so cannot do that. Also, those from Tamiya are unlikely to be turned as they do not have lathe marks.

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6 hours ago, Andreas W said:

You can use suspension shafts througout. I did that in my TD last year. You have to take off the gear covers for the propshaft. Then you xan fiddle the E-clip on inside the gear housing. It went after some attempts and without any E-clips going into orbit. 

Thanks, will give that a try. However, there are some like the lower rear hub joint which should fit a 22mm shaft but will not without thinning out the arms a little is annoying. It will be good if alternative lengths can be sourced that can be used without modification of the original parts.

(See my next answer, I may found something)

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5 hours ago, cstorckiii said:

Suspension pin, suspension shaft, or in the wider hardware world headless clevis pin with retaining ring grooves. However, finding sizes that will work is the biggest issue.

I found these and will be getting some to try. The difference in length can be taken up by spacers.

HB8X8G7.jpg

 

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10 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Do they exist?

The TL-01/M-05 shaft sets had other been recommended as a replacement for the screw pins for a good reason. The screw pins rust. However, on some chassis (like the Thunder Shot), this is not possible due to some blind suspension holes. Do stainless steel versions of such screw pins exists? I typed in screw pin into Google and Ali and the results are just not what is needed. What is the proper industry name for such screws? I do not think Tamiya custom make them but surely must be using off the shelf hardware?

On the same note, the shafts in the hopup set that are secured by e-clips, what is the industry name for them? I am sure they are used in many applications outside of Tamiya. 

Yes you can use steel shafts throughout, my showroom entry new built no screw pins thundershot details all of it.

There is a bit of dremel work to do on one shaft to shorten it but the front shock tower captures the shaft nicely.

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=133367&id=2692

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19 hours ago, cstorckiii said:

headless clevis pin

However, finding sizes that will work is the biggest issue.

Thanks for this, I now had ordered a few. Actually having alternative length is good as sometimes Tamiya's own will not work. For example, a 22mm should work on the TD rear lower hub, but it measured to be 23mm at least on the actual arms. So a 25mm one with spacers will be prefect.

Also, thank you @taffer, got the 22mm in that blind hole no problem. Also took the chance to oil the bearings and grease the gear when I had the cover opened.

4f1tEKH.jpg

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Ok, got the AE dowel pins. I ordered 12, 14, 25, 40 and 50mm.

e3vrVHk.jpg

For a start (sorry, used the wrong setting on the camera), the 25mm is same as Tamiya 22mm while the 40mm is slightly longer than the 37mm and the 50mm is longer than the 48.5mm.

The 50mm fits on the front neatly, replacing the too long 58mm from the M-05 set. The 48.5mm is just too short to fit.

Left - Tamiya 58mm Right - AE 50mm

pWDnTT7.jpg

The 50mm also fits into the rear right nicely. The rear left uses a 48.5mm fine but the right just need something slightly longer. I had to cut my heatsink though because the tail end of these dowel pins project a little more than Tamiya's shafts.

m9OOm2d.jpg

I need to order 30mm to replace the lower arms to hub screws as the 25mm has the same problem of being slightly too short as the Tamiya 22mm ones. The 14mm ones are also just too short (even though having the same M3 X 14mm) for the upper arms to hubs connection due to the clip be set slightly back from the end of the shaft (can be seen on the picture above).

Overall, this is a good addition to the spares box filling in the gaps where Tamiya's own shafts will not work.

(Note: I know I can thin the plastic down to make Tamiya's shafts work, but this is easier)

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43 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Ok, got the AE dowel pins. I ordered 12, 14, 25, 40 and 50mm.

e3vrVHk.jpg

For a start (sorry, used the wrong setting on the camera), the 25mm is same as Tamiya 22mm while the 40mm is slightly longer than the 37mm and the 50mm is longer than the 48.5mm.

The 50mm fits on the front neatly, replacing the too long 58mm from the M-05 set. The 48.5mm is just too short to fit.

Left - Tamiya 58mm Right - AE 50mm

pWDnTT7.jpg

The 50mm also fits into the rear right nicely. The rear left uses a 48.5mm fine but the right just need something slightly longer. I had to cut my heatsink though because the tail end of these dowel pins project a little more than Tamiya's shafts.

m9OOm2d.jpg

I need to order 30mm to replace the lower arms to hub screws as the 25mm has the same problem of being slightly too short as the Tamiya 22mm ones. The 14mm ones are also just too short (even though having the same M3 X 14mm) for the upper arms to hubs connection due to the clip be set slightly back from the end of the shaft (can be seen on the picture above).

Overall, this is a good addition to the spares box filling in the gaps where Tamiya's own shafts will not work.

(Note: I know I can thin the plastic down to make Tamiya's shafts work, but this is easier)

Those look very useful. Where did you get them from? Do you know whether that do any longer than 50mm?

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14 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Those look very useful. Where did you get them from? Do you know whether that do any longer than 50mm?

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EwHdBrv

There you go. Up to 60mm for M3. I will say, based on the 25mm is the same as Tamiya's 22mm, take 2 - 3mm off to allow for head and tail. Their main use is, I will say, filling in the gaps not covered by Tamiya's shaft sets.

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44 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EwHdBrv

There you go. Up to 60mm for M3. I will say, based on the 25mm is the same as Tamiya's 22mm, take 2 - 3mm off to allow for head and tail. Their main use is, I will say, filling in the gaps not covered by Tamiya's shaft sets.

So the name you were searching for was quite simply a "Flat Head Bearing Cylindrical Positioning Axis Roll Dowel Pin". Rolls of the tongue!

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52 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:

So the name you were searching for was quite simply a "Flat Head Bearing Cylindrical Positioning Axis Roll Dowel Pin". Rolls of the tongue!

I actually searched for "headless clevis pins" as suggested by @cstorckiii, then worked my way down the results. Then I found a number of "dowel pin" and used that as a search phrase and find the cheapest stainless steel ones that has M3 listed as well.

I have not really found suitable double ended e-clip types yet but figured that the pins go in one end usually with the clip on anyway, does it matter if it is a fixed flat head?

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8 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EwHdBrv

There you go. Up to 60mm for M3. I will say, based on the 25mm is the same as Tamiya's 22mm, take 2 - 3mm off to allow for head and tail. Their main use is, I will say, filling in the gaps not covered by Tamiya's shaft sets.

AH! AE = AliExpress! I read it as Associated Electronics. D'oh!

I have some mods which increase the required length of suspension shaft, so these could be a much better solution than searching for long shock shafts and using 2 nuts to close off the threaded end. No thread, no nuts, and I don't see a disadvantage of having a head in place of an e clip. Better for clearance and one less E clip to fit. 

Would you say the nominal lengths are total length or are they inside of head to inside of E-clip? Naming convention on these I'm not sure about. Tamiya seems to quote total length and the inside length is about 3mm less (eg TL01 "48.5" are 48.5mm total length, 45.5mm clip to clip), while my Schumacher "25mm" ones are 27mm total and just over 24mm clip to clip and my HPI "35mm" ones are similarly 37/34.

By the way, Tamiya set 9805683 are 25.3mm total, 22.3mm clip to clip, which might perhaps suit where your 22mm ones don't? 

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Yeah same @BuggyDad, AE in the hobby industry is Associated Electrics (Team Associated). I was about to ask the same thing, What AE part number are they? Maybe best to use AliExpress in future @alvinlwh?

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8 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

AH! AE = AliExpress! I read it as Associated Electronics. D'oh!

 

7 hours ago, mtbkym01 said:

Maybe best to use AliExpress in future @alvinlwh?

You are both right, but as this is a continuation of a post with a screenshot from the AliExpress app (with it showing some "Tinggoo" branding), I thought it will be obvious it is not Associated Electronics.

8 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

Would you say the nominal lengths are total length or are they inside of head to inside of E-clip?

If you follow the link and look through the product pictures, the last picture.

WEf6WUk.jpg

Or scroll down the product description.

6J2a8Xq.jpg

Notice all dimensions are "about". Their 25mm is like Tamiya 22mm (3mm less) while their 50mm is longer than Tamiya 48.5mm. I think for that price, just grab a range to try. Note that 35 to 60mm are £3/5 pcs.

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14 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

I actually searched for "headless clevis pins" as suggested by @cstorckiii, then worked my way down the results. Then I found a number of "dowel pin" and used that as a search phrase and find the cheapest stainless steel ones that has M3 listed as well.

I have not really found suitable double ended e-clip types yet but figured that the pins go in one end usually with the clip on anyway, does it matter if it is a fixed flat head?

The flat head are made by banging on the tip of a rod, like a nail. These will never be as straight as the Tamiya ones that use e-rings. The groove for the e-rings is machined probably by spinning the rod on some sort of lathe and the end product is dead straight. You never find flat head pins on high-end kits either. Of course it's probably perfectly fine for casual use.

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5 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:

You never find flat head pins on high-end kits either. Of course it's probably perfectly fine for casual use.

Since I am not building a nuke, they are fine replacement for the even worse screw pins! 😁

7 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:

The groove for the e-rings is machined probably by spinning the rod on some sort of lathe and the end product is dead straight.

Well, I started this thread off with trying to find what those are called and even though I had a few suggestions, I cannot seem to find the proper ones, at least not the usual places, these are, like you said, just fine. 

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Thanks @alvinlwh I have ordered a variety of these. NB the same seller offers 100 E clips for tuppence ha'penny and elsewhere on Ali Express I also found assorted shafts in the traditional design that takes a clip either end:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_msOI5W0

Quality unknown, of course, but cheap, and various sizes in between Tamiya ones. 

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13 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Thanks @alvinlwh I have ordered a variety of these. NB the same seller offers 100 E clips for tuppence ha'penny and elsewhere on Ali Express I also found assorted shafts in the traditional design that takes a clip either end:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_msOI5W0

Quality unknown, of course, but cheap, and various sizes in between Tamiya ones. 

Do note that the E-clips used on these are bigger than Tamiya ones so the Tamiya tool will not work on them.

Brilliant! Well done for finding them. However, the one you linked charges for postage.

Need to warn you about postage on AE, it can sometimes work in a very strange way depending on sellers.

1. It can be free postage, but when you add more items, it becomes no longer free after a certain quantity.

2. It can be fixed postage no matter how many you buy from the same seller, even if the items are different.

3. It can ramp up as you increase the quantity.

My only advice is to check your basket when you are buying such small value but multiple items or large amount of quantity. Of course it will matter less if you are buying a single brushless set up.

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Took me a while to find this thread but I got there in the end. @alvinlwh there is a possible further solution for your consideration - Xtra Speed have released a trio of stainless steel hinges pin screws for Tamiya cars with hex-heads:

00129698-xtra-speed-xs-ta29168-002-1100x

RCMart currently list 22, 32 and 46mm pins sold in packs of 5. Decent price, perhaps still flawed as I'm sure they'll eventually back-out like the steel Tamiya ones, but at least they shouldn't rust!

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On 10/22/2023 at 3:24 AM, BuggyDad said:

By the way, Tamiya set 9805683 are 25.3mm total, 22.3mm clip to clip, which might perhaps suit where your 22mm ones don't? 

9805683 is labelled as 25mm, 54395 is labelled 22mm, and they are the same part. both are 22mm clip to clip, 25mm overall length.  Tamiya isn't consistent in labeling these things.

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