Hot Shot 2 vs Terra Scorcher

[ThunderDragonCy 8974]

9 hours ago, Tamiyastef said:

Thanks to anyone that responded, got some really good advice. Will sleep on it and decide later. Whatever it will be, will post a picture as soon as it arrives 

@Saito2 is right about the Terra Scorcher handling if you go that way : it is very high grip front, loose rear. With the stock wheels and tyres yph will have way too much grip on the front. If you are allowed to modify tyres, start by clipping rows of spikes off the front tyres until you get the balance nice. I have also found the rear anti roll bar to make things worse not better in this regard, so expect to need to take that off. Post up here and ask for help. 

[Twinfan 2314]

10 hours ago, Tamiyastef said:

That will set me back 1,5 Terra Scorcher in real world money + the VQS is not without flaws either IIRC + missing bearings and universals. I have the impression (could be completely wrong though) that there are not that many VQS's around so spares ill probably be more of an issue. And I think the Terra Scorcher shares most parts with several other kits which is always a good thing for a runner IMO

The VQS has universals front and rear like the Terra Scorcher and is only missing 6 bearings (620 x2, 830 x2, 850 x2)  

[Re-Bugged 11948]

22 hours ago, Tamiyastef said:

As I currently don't own a 4WD Offroad Tamiya I'm in the market for one. I have no experience with either the HotShot or SuperShot family of buggy's.

Just had a quick speed read through this thread mate.

I’ve been contemplating parting with my Terra Scorcher, 

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=138566&id=49381
 
It has the A5 upgrades, and it’s only been run a few times.

If it’s of any interest to you let me know 😉

[Re-Bugged 11948]

(Double post!!)

[Andreas W 3016]

I have no experience with the Hotshot chassis cars, but the enclosed chassis alone was enough to put me away. What I do know is that the Terra Scorcher and it's sieblings are superb and solid cars. With the alu A5 part and suspension shafts you have a solid and reliable car. I have yet to break anything on my Thunder Dragon,, and it has been run alot. I crashed my Terra last winter and broke both C hubs and uprights. I have stacked up 2 extra sets of parts trees with suspension arms,  but have yet to break any. 

 

So my choice would be the Terra. I would also get a Fire Dragon (or Saint Dragon or whichever is the cheapest) for spares right away. 

 

Edit: For reliability reasons I would use the solid upper arms. You get them in the Terra kit (and they are on the parts tree when you buy spare suspension arms). Then you have good access to spares if something breaks.  I would also use the dogbones of the parts car for rear and save the one set of universals for later. 

[Tamiyastef 3043]

Scales are certainly tipping over to the Terra side. One of my concerns are the triangular wheel adapters.  I like the look of the Egress wheels but I'm not sure these are a direct fit? Hotshot wheels use the same adapter as the stock Terra wheels I believe so these could be an option if I want smaller wheels in the front... Not sure... Maybe pass by my LHS tomorrow and see what they have to say about fitting other wheels and what parts are readily available. 

[StueyS 49]

You can fit any 12mm hex adaptors that fit Tamiya cars. I have Yeah racing ones on my car, 5mm on the front and 4mm on the rear.

[ThunderDragonCy 8974]

24 minutes ago, Tamiyastef said:

Scales are certainly tipping over to the Terra side. One of my concerns are the triangular wheel adapters.  I like the look of the Egress wheels but I'm not sure these are a direct fit? Hotshot wheels use the same adapter as the stock Terra wheels I believe so these could be an option if I want smaller wheels in the front... Not sure... Maybe pass by my LHS tomorrow and see what they have to say about fitting other wheels and what parts are readily available. 

Egress wheels will fit with 12mm hexes. Hotshot wheels will directly fit the triangular kit wheel mounts. 

[Frog Jumper 4254]

Tamiya 53056.  Take a look at the back-of-packaging instructions…

https://www.amazon.ca/Tamiya-Pin-Type-Wheel-Adapter/dp/B0000WRXTE

[Re-Bugged 11948]

Mines already fitted with the 12mm hexes @Tamiyastef, as mentioned above, you know, just saying mate 🤣

The on road wheels & tyres in the photo are 12mm hex wheels, I’ve had my Javelin wheels fitted on it as well sitting on the shelf. 

[Jonathon Gillham 4708]

@Saito2 @ThunderDragonCy and anyone else who runs their Thundershot cars a bit - what spares do you carry?

I'm going to order a bunch of arms so just wondering what else is worth throwing in the order.  I'll get some dog bones as when the arms break its impossible to find the dogbones unless you have spares, this way I won't ever lose one.

[taffer 955]

Thundershot arms don't break, they will scuff over time which would be the only reason to change them (you could flip them to give you extra time...)

After 100+ hours of running time I have found F tree (front hubs) will crack/break eventually plus the original wheels can split and break. Drive shaft and cups may need changing once over this time period, depending where you run. The triangular wheel adaptors may split and/or crack over time as well

For normal running these breakages takes a lot of running to get to the stage of breakages, I achieved this length of time running because at the time my thundershot was my main runner but it isn't anymore and run time is reduced to an hour every two months or less so maintenance just consists of cleaning up the drive shafts and cups, replacing lubrication.

For shafts/dog bones you could try painting the centre a bright colour? Although I've never had a lost one on a thundershot.

Just checked my showroom, 200+ hours documented....

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=122868&id=2692

 

[Jonathon Gillham 4708]

19 minutes ago, taffer said:

Thundershot arms don't break, they will scuff over time which would be the only reason to change them (you could flip them to give you extra time...)

After 100+ hours of running time I have found F tree (front hubs) will crack/break eventually plus the original wheels can split and break. Drive shaft and cups may need changing once over this time period, depending where you run. The triangular wheel adaptors may split and/or crack over time as well

For normal running these breakages takes a lot of running to get to the stage of breakages, I achieved this length of time running because at the time my thundershot was my main runner but it isn't anymore and run time is reduced to an hour every two months or less so maintenance just consists of cleaning up the drive shafts and cups, replacing lubrication.

For shafts/dog bones you could try painting the centre a bright colour? Although I've never had a lost one on a thundershot.

Just checked my showroom, 200+ hours documented....

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=122868&id=2692

 

Thanks @taffer, sounds like i don't need anything else. The arms are splitting at the inner hinge pins, so far 4 have gone after minimal running so thats where the question is coming from. Saito2 has the same issue, I guess its rere vs original?

[ThunderDragonCy 8974]

6 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

@Saito2 @ThunderDragonCy and anyone else who runs their Thundershot cars a bit - what spares do you carry?

I'm going to order a bunch of arms so just wondering what else is worth throwing in the order.  I'll get some dog bones as when the arms break its impossible to find the dogbones unless you have spares, this way I won't ever lose one.

I would agree with @taffer, I don't have any go-to spares always in stock because once you sort the A5 it's a very durable platform IME. I think there must be an issue with the very latest arms by the sounds of it. I have used rere arms for years with no issue, mostly now on ultra G now I have modified my Thunder dragon. 

[Twinfan 2314]

I ripped one arm out of the rear of my Fire Dragon, and never did on my original Thunder Dragon, so I think there may be a slight issue with the re-re arms.  I'd stack up on a few of those for sure.  Along with hubs, just in case.

If you're allowed to Hop-Up the car slightly you could consider the prop shaft upgrade, hard gearbox cups (53218) and a Hi-Torque servo saver (5100).

 

Other than that, I'd get the 53056 or 53569 hexes and Egress wheels/tyres and drive the wheels off it!

[Andreas W 3016]

Based on my experience (after not nearly as many hours as Taffer) a have a couple of F parts in backhand. I also have a couple of D parts,  but have yet to break any of these. 

[taffer 955]

I'm surprised to hear of the blue D arms splitting!? Especially after the many hours I have run my two thundershots for (first tshot was a 2005 rere for approx 8 years running, second and current tshot runner is an original rebuild using 2005 era blue arms).

I don't do a lot of jumping though, in my showroom link above you can see the odd occasion I jumped or tumbled, drive shafts ended up being bent as well but the arms continued to survive.....

Mmmmm...... I think maybe try boiling them before use or other recommended methods to maintain their suppleness??

What I have found is the inner hingepin side over a long time tends to bend inwards slightly which allows the arm to move back and forth on the long inner screw pin, so I used shims to stop them until I replaced them

[Andreas W 3016]

11 minutes ago, taffer said:

 

What I have found is the inner hingepin side over a long time tends to bend inwards slightly which allows the arm to move back and forth on the long inner screw pin, so I used shims to stop them until I replaced them

I have prevantively made sleeves of brass pipe that fits on the suspension shafts inside the arms on my self built Thunder Dragon. The hingepins are also shimmed where neccesary. I hope this will prevent excess movement and bending on the arms. I am also not jumping mine a lot ( but it sees a lot of use both from me and the kids).

[Twinfan 2314]

I don't think it's a problem with them hardening and cracking, I think the plastic is quite soft and it tears?  That seemed to be the case with my single failure anyway which happened hitting a large divot in the park at speed.

[taffer 955]

1 hour ago, Twinfan said:

I don't think it's a problem with them hardening and cracking, I think the plastic is quite soft and it tears?  That seemed to be the case with my single failure anyway which happened hitting a large divot in the park at speed.

Never heard that before , even after nearly 20 years on the forum, hopefully a fluke accident or at worst a funny batch of arms!?

[Saito2 8309]

3 hours ago, Twinfan said:

I ripped one arm out of the rear of my Fire Dragon, and never did on my original Thunder Dragon, so I think there may be a slight issue with the re-re arms.  I'd stack up on a few of those for sure.  Along with hubs, just in case.

If you're allowed to Hop-Up the car slightly you could consider the prop shaft upgrade, hard gearbox cups (53218) and a Hi-Torque servo saver (5100).

 

Hey, that's me, under my original screen name! My beard wasn't grey back then either, lol.

Yeah, its the arms splitting that's the problem, almost as if they're too soft. It tears right at the mold seam that runs around the center of the arm. Someone else that was using their Terra Scorcher for track duty was having these issues too. This is a new issue (we'll add it to the list along with the dodgy bevel gear molding that first popped up in the 2008 Fire Dragon). The originals, 2005 T-shot re-re and 2008 Fire Dragon re-re did not have this problem. Personally, I've split an arm on a light tap with a solid object that didn't even upset the buggy and also bottoming in a big divot in my yard. I should try to develop a way the measure the flexibility of the new arms vs the older ones I have. The new ones seem much more pliable to me but then again, being a polyamide, the old arms might just be more dried out at this point.

 

As an aside, I wonder if the flexible nature of the arms (i.e. "high traction" arms) contributed to the T-shot chassis being so "on the nose" with its handling characteristics? (sorry, I might have already asked that in another thread, it all blends together after awhile, lol) Some rigid 3-D arms might be an interesting experiment if I was smart enough to use a computer and could trust a 3-D print (I don't yet) to hold up in use.

 

 

 

[Twinfan 2314]

Just to clarify, my Fire Dragon was a recent re-re so I agree it seems to be a recent production thing rather than a longer term issue.

[taffer 955]

I have been intending for the last year to build one of my 2022 tshots to replace my current runner (retire it to the shelf), plus a Saint dragon as well, will scrutinise the arms in more detail when I get around to it

[ThunderDragonCy 8974]

1 hour ago, Saito2 said:

Hey, that's me, under my original screen name! My beard wasn't grey back then either, lol.

Yeah, its the arms splitting that's the problem, almost as if they're too soft. It tears right at the mold seam that runs around the center of the arm. Someone else that was using their Terra Scorcher for track duty was having these issues too. This is a new issue (we'll add it to the list along with the dodgy bevel gear molding that first popped up in the 2008 Fire Dragon). The originals, 2005 T-shot re-re and 2008 Fire Dragon re-re did not have this problem. Personally, I've split an arm on a light tap with a solid object that didn't even upset the buggy and also bottoming in a big divot in my yard. I should try to develop a way the measure the flexibility of the new arms vs the older ones I have. The new ones seem much more pliable to me but then again, being a polyamide, the old arms might just be more dried out at this point.

 

As an aside, I wonder if the flexible nature of the arms (i.e. "high traction" arms) contributed to the T-shot chassis being so "on the nose" with its handling characteristics? (sorry, I might have already asked that in another thread, it all blends together after awhile, lol) Some rigid 3-D arms might be an interesting experiment if I was smart enough to use a computer and could trust a 3-D print (I don't yet) to hold up in use.

 

 

 

I haven't completely isolated the arms, but my Thunder Dragon has DB01 front arms and uprights, rear arms, and my own 3D printed rear upright to make the driveshaft work and it's considerably calmer. This setup does have other refinements like caster front uprights and better steering geometry though. 

I suspect that the flexibility is part of the 'on the nose' thing because as you brake, the weight deccelerating the body will act to twist the arms and reduce caster and kickup, making the front geometry very twitchy. I think this is also why they tend to be a bit calmer with the solid upper arms as it makes this effect smaller.

That said, when I built my bitsa stock Thunder Dragon in lockdown, I got it handling really nice with very heavy front oil (twice the weight of the rears) and touring car front spring and proper modern buggy tyres that aren't super grippy on the front. I think ultimately the stock Dragon chassis in both mono and twin shock is massively under sprung and damped at the front. 

[StueyS 49]

I have two Terra Scorcher 2020 kits I bought in winter 2021 that have split the front wishbones from light contact on the front wheels. I managed to get some older arms second hand which have been fine so far, and some nylon 3d printed arms which are also working out fine. I think there has been a batch of bad arms, or a possible change of material. Quite how you might tell I don't know!