Jump to content
gkatz

putting a brushed motor on an Optima Mid

Recommended Posts

Hi all;
was wondering which brushed motor you would put on an optima mid. 

I would like some speed... it seems like the lemance brushed is not that fast. the tamiya sport tuned should be faster and I feel like its blasphemy to put a tamiya motor on a kyosho.

so if you go brushed. which will you choose? (for a hobbyist who runs a car 1-2 a month only and not racing but likes speed and torque)

10x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LRP are European, German I think , they have been around for a long time and usually manufacture good quality products.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, they've been around since 1987 and other than Tamiya are the only other company making fairly high spec brushed motors.  Others (Holmes Hobbies, Hobbywing, unbranded/seller branded etc) are a bit more budget orientated.  I think for £30 or €30 they're great value on paper but I haven't tried any out as yet to confirm it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@gkatz  Just a note that mod brushed motors require a lathe to maintain the comm in pristine condition.  Otherwise the motor will loose output over time.. like by the 10th run there is measurable loss in performance even for bashing.. by the 20th run you will probably notice your car is not traveling as fast as when the motor was new.   I use to cut comms after every 2-3 runs while racing.

That said, I use Kyosho's G14L brushed motors ($25?) on 4 or 5 of my Scorpions/Beetles.  They're a tad slower than Kyosho's LeMans 19.5BL, but not a dog at all.  They're quick enough to make the vintage rere lively.  The fixed can motors usually have a longer life than mod motors as they use stiff brushes and a lot simpler design.  

With a 2S LiPo I am sure they're plenty fast for your non-racing bashing needs.  They're the 550 motors that come in the FazerMk2's.  Just thought I'd toss that into the mix.  Have fun with your MID!   👍

IMG_2022-12-27-175235.jpg.0f3a0ed2799fd1a19d6e0e768e7a8fcd.jpg

My MIDs run LeMans 240S 15.5BL and 240Gold 13.5BL.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Willy iine said:

@gkatz  Just a note that mod brushed motors require a lathe to maintain the comm in pristine condition.  Otherwise the motor will loose output over time.. like by the 10th run there is measurable loss in performance even for bashing.. by the 20th run you will probably notice your car is not traveling as fast as when the motor was new.   I use to cut comms after every 2-3 runs while racing.

That said, I use Kyosho's G14L brushed motors ($25?) on 4 or 5 o my Scorpions/Beetle.  They're a tad slower than Kyosho's LeMans 19.5BL, but not a dog at all.  They're quick enough to make the vintage rere lively.  The fixed can motors usually have a longer life than mod motors as they use stiff brushes and a lot simpler design.  

With a 2S LiPo I am sure they're plenty fast for your non-racing bashing needs.  They're the 550 motors that come in the FazerMk2's.  Just thought I'd toss that into the mix.  Have fun with your MID!   👍

IMG_2022-12-27-175235.jpg.0f3a0ed2799fd1a19d6e0e768e7a8fcd.jpg

My MIDs run LeMans 240S 15.5BL and 240Gold 13.5BL.

currently I am just dreaming and calculating costs :)
BTW, this is the second time I see your photo of the Trio and its jaw dropping...
are there any hop-ups you believe are a must? or its perfect as it is?

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, gkatz said:

thats a very high RPM for a  small price (2 times the spots tuned of tamiya and 3 time almost the lemance)
i was not aware of this manufacturer - is it a well known brand?

LRP is pretty well known. i have 3 cars with LRP brushless motors. at the drift track i have seen some people using their motors too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I run this motor: https://www.yeahracing.com/hackmoto-v2-13t-540-brushed-motor-mt-0012-00056715

Supposedly 34k RPM. Need to measure that and see how real that is.

Just got my mid up and running for test runs on the street, haven't GPS'd it yet, but it feels slower than I'd like. I don't intend to drive it a lot (let alone bash it hard) but I do want it to show itself well when I drive it once in a while. I am running the stock pinion right now and the next steps for me are:

- get out the GPS and temp gun

- increase the pinion a few teeth (measure speed & temps)

- increase timing (measure speed and temps)

I don't need it to be a brushless rocket (I have plenty of those) but the current speed is just too slow (I am guessing 25ish MPH just based on eyeballing it).

 

Thanks @Willy iine for the tips on the brushed motors... I don't intend to drive this even 5 times a year, so I think it will be ok without too much maintenance.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, gkatz said:

currently I am just dreaming and calculating costs :)
BTW, this is the second time I see your photo of the Trio and its jaw dropping...
are there any hop-ups you believe are a must? or its perfect as it is?

Thanks!  The car drives well out of the box.  The stuff I put on are more decoration just to make the car more premium.  I suppose the only parts I would recommend are the steering link tie piece (metal) and the flanged bearings for it.   The rest is more for the premium feel.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, smirk-racing said:

I run this motor: https://www.yeahracing.com/hackmoto-v2-13t-540-brushed-motor-mt-0012-00056715

Supposedly 34k RPM. Need to measure that and see how real that is.

Just got my mid up and running for test runs on the street, haven't GPS'd it yet, but it feels slower than I'd like. I don't intend to drive it a lot (let alone bash it hard) but I do want it to show itself well when I drive it once in a while. I am running the stock pinion right now and the next steps for me are:

- get out the GPS and temp gun

- increase the pinion a few teeth (measure speed & temps)

- increase timing (measure speed and temps)

I don't need it to be a brushless rocket (I have plenty of those) but the current speed is just too slow (I am guessing 25ish MPH just based on eyeballing it).

 

Thanks @Willy iine for the tips on the brushed motors... I don't intend to drive this even 5 times a year, so I think it will be ok without too much maintenance.

 

please do share the outcome...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/29/2023 at 10:15 AM, Snappy1 said:

LRP are European, German I think , they have been around for a long time and usually manufacture good quality products.

Yep, they are germans, from Baden-Wuerttemberg, just outside of Stuttgart. I have an old LRP GT1 motor (probably late 90s) in the cupboard. It came as a hotter option to the Johnson silver can in a M-03, but I think it is a bit much really for the creaky old grandpa. Might try it for fun in the Phat M-05 Mini later on.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Willy iine these good looking tires you have on your mids. Can you provide a link to them? I believe the kit come with a lot more spiky ones?

Also for all optima lovers:

What are your thoughts regarding mid vs turbo mid vs turbo mid se?

Is it worth chasing after the last 2(assuming I have none of the 3)? Only the mid is in stock (or re re'ed. I don't have enough experience to tell)

Found this interesting link btw

https://www.kyosho-optima.com/midse.html

10x!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, gkatz said:

@Willy iine these good looking tires you have on your mids. Can you provide a link to them? I believe the kit come with a lot more spiky ones?

Also for all optima lovers:

What are your thoughts regarding mid vs turbo mid vs turbo mid se?

Is it worth chasing after the last 2(assuming I have none of the 3)? Only the mid is in stock (or re re'ed. I don't have enough experience to tell)

Found this interesting link btw

https://www.kyosho-optima.com/midse.html

10x!

The tires you see in the pictures above are the kit tires.  I am running the optional Kyosho's black Turbo Optima wheels on the non-standard MID.   Most RC hobby shops carry them.

I don't own a MID SE (since I don't believe they were re-released), but if you are an Optima fan, I suggest getting all the variations available.  For me that is the Optima, Javelin, Turbo Optima, MID.. and the Mini-Z's and diecast.  :D   The MID drives most balanced imo, given the motor position.  But I don't race or anything so they all drive quite nicely for me.

IMG_2023-4-19-120114.jpg.d4a1b647250ca695f602e8a4f917845f.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi all;

continuing the original question.,

I undertand that there are closed can motors and open can. up until now i only had closed can. i am not the guys to open a motor, clean it, replace brushes (or whtever you usually do with open cans). I think some of the recoomendation were reffering to open can motors... but i just want to put the motor on and forget its there.

in that case, what would my options be for a fast motor? (faster than a sports tuned tamiya but still closed like it)

thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no experience with it myself,  but based on what I have seen in the vids from @Kai City RC the Kyosho G15 may be a good alternative. It is a closed can, sees quick and is cheap. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Andreas W said:

I have no experience with it myself,  but based on what I have seen in the vids from @Kai City RC the Kyosho G15 may be a good alternative. It is a closed can, sees quick and is cheap. 

just to make sure regarding this: Le Mans motor (Brush.30turn) 37021
it does not meet my criteria because its considered an open can? (hard for me to understand which is which)
10x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The G15 looks like a Silvercan, only in black and with a turquise sticker. It's as simple and carefree as it gets. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hmmm a silver can will get you around 15K RPM give or take.

I would like to at least pass the 20K RPM mark (but with closed can :) )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The G15 is a sealed motor, much like the 540 silver can. It is now discontinued though, so finding one could be difficult. For the money they are plenty fast. I run one on my Javelin. Another cheap option is the G2X  or G20 motor. It's slower at 20T, but with the right gearing isn't too bad. Another option is Kyosho's G14 Single. It's a 550 motor, but *should* fit in the Optima. (I've not tried though).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/29/2023 at 9:52 AM, smirk-racing said:

I run this motor: https://www.yeahracing.com/hackmoto-v2-13t-540-brushed-motor-mt-0012-00056715

Supposedly 34k RPM. Need to measure that and see how real that is.

Just got my mid up and running for test runs on the street, haven't GPS'd it yet, but it feels slower than I'd like. I don't intend to drive it a lot (let alone bash it hard) but I do want it to show itself well when I drive it once in a while. I am running the stock pinion right now and the next steps for me are:

- get out the GPS and temp gun

- increase the pinion a few teeth (measure speed & temps)

- increase timing (measure speed and temps)

I don't need it to be a brushless rocket (I have plenty of those) but the current speed is just too slow (I am guessing 25ish MPH just based on eyeballing it).

 

Thanks @Willy iine for the tips on the brushed motors... I don't intend to drive this even 5 times a year, so I think it will be ok without too much maintenance.

 

Updates on the hackmotor from yeah racing:

1. To my surprise, it delivers almost precisely the rated RPM (34,000) when measured with a little digital tachometer. It shouldn't be surprising that the product did what the spec sheet said it would do, but deep down I just thought maybe the specs were a lie. I have a digital tach like this one. Bought it during COVID when I had high hopes to measure/optimize various things, it sat unused until now. Got the full purchase price worth of value in a single session. Fwiw, I measured 34,450, give or take.

2. With a 34k RPM motor and the stock 25t pinion from the kit, I was getting 30mph on a 2s lipo. At these low speeds, everything should be pretty linear, so you can estimate your own top speed pretty easily based on motor RPM.

3. Motor temps were too low to be worth measuring while driving (barely warm when touched). Ironically, the motor got much warmer to the touch when it had no load and I was measuring the RPM. When in the actually vehicle, there was no temp worth measuring after half a dozen passes. Ambient temps were 60F/ 15C, roughly. So it was cool but not cold. I was running without a body though so that helped with airflow.

4. The hackmoto has adjustable timing. I'd never adjusted timing on a brushed motor before (went to brushless more than 15 yrs ago, never looked back) so I gave it a try. Only took 30 seconds. Measured new RPM on tach, got about 38,000 rpm. The math would imply top speed should increase by just over 10%, and indeed, the GPS speed went from 30 to 34mph.

That's where the buggy stands right now - 34mph on flat smooth streets on foam tires.

Can you Optima experts help me with a few questions?

What is a right ballpark for the original vintage speed for this vehicle?

What amperage did vintage motors draw? I am building another Optima that won't use vintage specs for the motor, and I curious to get a baseline before dropping big brushless power in that one.

Thanks!

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To find out if the Kyosho G15 is any good I ordered 2 of them today for my 2 Dragons. They are so cheap so you cannot go wrong. Based on what I have seen in the vids from our nice college Kai City RC it looks promising. Perfomance probably almost on Tamiya Superstock level. You are not able to gap/clear the double without some real power there. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/3/2023 at 7:50 PM, smirk-racing said:

Updates on the hackmotor from yeah racing:

1. To my surprise, it delivers almost precisely the rated RPM (34,000) when measured with a little digital tachometer. It shouldn't be surprising that the product did what the spec sheet said it would do, but deep down I just thought maybe the specs were a lie. I have a digital tach like this one. Bought it during COVID when I had high hopes to measure/optimize various things, it sat unused until now. Got the full purchase price worth of value in a single session. Fwiw, I measured 34,450, give or take.

2. With a 34k RPM motor and the stock 25t pinion from the kit, I was getting 30mph on a 2s lipo. At these low speeds, everything should be pretty linear, so you can estimate your own top speed pretty easily based on motor RPM.

3. Motor temps were too low to be worth measuring while driving (barely warm when touched). Ironically, the motor got much warmer to the touch when it had no load and I was measuring the RPM. When in the actually vehicle, there was no temp worth measuring after half a dozen passes. Ambient temps were 60F/ 15C, roughly. So it was cool but not cold. I was running without a body though so that helped with airflow.

4. The hackmoto has adjustable timing. I'd never adjusted timing on a brushed motor before (went to brushless more than 15 yrs ago, never looked back) so I gave it a try. Only took 30 seconds. Measured new RPM on tach, got about 38,000 rpm. The math would imply top speed should increase by just over 10%, and indeed, the GPS speed went from 30 to 34mph.

That's where the buggy stands right now - 34mph on flat smooth streets on foam tires.

Can you Optima experts help me with a few questions?

What is a right ballpark for the original vintage speed for this vehicle?

What amperage did vintage motors draw? I am building another Optima that won't use vintage specs for the motor, and I curious to get a baseline before dropping big brushless power in that one.

Thanks!

 

Anyone have insight on the last few questions about what a stock / vintage Optima would have drawn back in the day? Probably won't limit myself to that but just curious to get a sense of it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...