brushed differences question

[gkatz 58]

Hi all;

I think I am a litle confused about brushed motors.

back in the day I use a technigold and it was the pinacle of tamiya engines

today, there seem to be many charestaristics such as:

-open / closed can

- timing adjustable

- rebuildable

-some motor look completey closed (is this the meaning of sealed) like: (https://tamiyabase.com/parts/1533)

so look like the top os opened:

in the opened ones some are labeled as maitanance free (like this one above https://tamiyabase.com/parts/5293)

and some as maitanance rebuildable like the below (https://tamiyabase.com/parts/14780):

so I am a little confused.

seems like for the closed ones there is no one with RPM that exceeds 20K- not sure why

for the superstock ones. do I actually need to clean them all the time? do I need to replace brushes etc?

thanks!

 

 

[Snappy1 999]

Your Technigold was an open can, adjustable timing ,and rebuildable, similar to the super stock motors.

closed can motors will last longer on the brushes but that’s about the only advantage other than the price,

A GT tuned will have similar performance to your technigold, I would suggest a super stock BZ if you want more punch

you will be surprised how long a super stock will run on a set of brushes

[skom25 1917]

I ran SS BZ for about 15 packs ( 3300 NimH) and really do not see any signs of wear.

Maybe it is because I run it only for about 5-7 minutes and wait till it cools down, but it is not truth that you have to rebuild if every few runs, as manual suggest.

Probably it can happen, if you just use it on limit for a longer time and everything get super hot.

Torque Tuned is bit lazy, especially on high FDR. Sport Tuned is better and maintenance free.

If you want to have some power, go for Sport Tuned. If you really want something more powerful, buy Super Stock but remember that sometimes you need to at least check it.

It is not an issue, when you have so easy access to motor as in e.g. XV-01 or DT-03. It is bit annoying, when it is hidden in chassis like in e.g. TT-02.

[gkatz 58]

thanks guys, what are the signs that a motor should be cleaned or that brushes should be replaced? @skom25@Snappy1

[Willy iine 18826]

It's the commutator that you need to clean (using a lathe) to keep those mod motors running at peak performance.  Brushes do wear, but it's really the comm's condition that determines how well the motor will run.  The comm should be a clean copper color.   One can 'clean' the surface using those eraser like cleaners, but like brake discs on a real car, the surface needs to be cut to flatten (and true) them for max contact with the brushes.

After you cut the comm (using a lathe) I check the condition of the brush face that make contact with the comm and decide whether to clean them or just replace them entirely.   I still have a bag full of brushes from the late 90's.   

Like mentioned on my other posts, if you want consistent pristine performance with minimal maintenance, you will want to run brushless setup.  Brushed mod motors, imho, should not be sold these days as I don't think many places sell comm lathes any more.. folks can't maintain them properly ending up with an under performing car, or wasting money tossing them out after 40 or so runs as they are too slow with gunked up comms.

[gkatz 58]

1 hour ago, Willy iine said:

It's the commutator that you need to clean (using a lathe) to keep those mod motors running at peak performance.  Brushes do wear, but it's really the comm's condition that determines how well the motor will run.  The comm should be a clean copper color.   One can 'clean' the surface using those eraser like cleaners, but like brake discs on a real car, the surface needs to be cut to flatten (and true) them for max contact with the brushes.

After you cut the comm (using a lathe) I check the condition of the brush face that make contact with the comm and decide whether to clean them or just replace them entirely.   I still have a bag full of brushes from the late 90's.   

Like mentioned on my other posts, if you want consistent pristine performance with minimal maintenance, you will want to run brushless setup.  Brushed mod motors, imho, should not be sold these days as I don't think many places sell comm lathes any more.. folks can't maintain them properly ending up with an under performing car, or wasting money tossing them out after 40 or so runs as they are too slow with gunked up comms.

thanks so its HW1060+sporttined for me or what brushless setup would you suggest that will not break the bank? but is reliable and works well? (and prefferably be fast with a Nimh)

[skom25 1917]

"Fast" is not good indicator. Even Super Stock can be very boring, if you want to go straight in front of house. At the same time, Sport Tuned can have too much power, if you run on tight, slippery tracks.

I have Super Stock in my TT-02B and on track routed on asphalt, somewhere around 10x10 meters, I have feeling that I am not able to use all power.

[Willy iine 18826]

17 minutes ago, gkatz said:

thanks so its HW1060+sporttined for me or what brushless setup would you suggest that will not break the bank? but is reliable and works well? (and prefferably be fast with a Nimh)

For BL, you can try the Hobbywing stock combo's.. those are pretty economical.  They come with the XR10 Justock and their own motors.  However, their motors are not as smooth as the LeMans.

 

[Pylon80 3456]

On 12/4/2023 at 1:28 AM, gkatz said:

Hi all;

I think I am a litle confused about brushed motors.

back in the day I use a technigold and it was the pinacle of tamiya engines

today, there seem to be many charestaristics such as:

-open / closed can

- timing adjustable

- rebuildable

-some motor look completey closed (is this the meaning of sealed) like: (https://tamiyabase.com/parts/1533)

so look like the top os opened:

in the opened ones some are labeled as maitanance free (like this one above https://tamiyabase.com/parts/5293)

and some as maitanance rebuildable like the below (https://tamiyabase.com/parts/14780):

so I am a little confused.

seems like for the closed ones there is no one with RPM that exceeds 20K- not sure why

for the superstock ones. do I actually need to clean them all the time? do I need to replace brushes etc?

thanks!

 

 

The silver can, torque tuned and sport tuned are great motors that cost next to nothing and will last longer than the driver

I'm not sure why Tamiya is still offering open end bell motors... I think it's for the vintage feel? Only the Super Stock ones can be opened; all the other ones are crimped closed as they used to be control motors for racing. I still have a formula tuned and a lightly tuned but other than looking good they offer no real advantage. Like @skom25 said 'fast' is a very relative concept. A torque tuned motor, if you know to gear it short enough, is insanely fun on a surface the size of a basketball court.

One thing to note is that the open end bell motors have very strong magnets and tend to have a lot of "dragging brake" when you let off the throttle. That can be desirable or downright annoying depending on the car and track surface.

[ManyTamiya3 15]

 Why one would want a brushed setup is like asking why anyone would be into RC-it's all good if enjoy it, and if you like wrenching (perhaps more than driving) brushed is OK. For a modern car brushless is the way to go of course but for vintage cars, vintage power. I remember the Nicad racing days with all the Competion Electronics gear, cutting coms, motor dynos, dischargers-now that's just silly but the brushed motors, some with efficiencies of 80%, are still valid. Tamiya has several offerings, and I just looked into a real beauty of a brushed motor, the Holmes 400! Wow, that's a motor, check their video.

 The hobby does evolve, as does the hype,  but if you take this "seriously" you've got bigger issues than what motor you run...

[ManyTamiya3 15]

... and don't forget to zap the can and put in some comm drops-lol!