What does a hillwalking truck need?

[Mad Ax 10037]

Throw me your ideas.  Anything you can think of, which might make a truck better-suited to going on long walks across hills and fields - as opposed to crawling over technical courses.

I've been giving this a lot of thought, since I have a few scale rigs, but all of them are either geared towards the technical crawling-among-the-rocks aspect, or are more true-scale rigs, and neither are really good for hillwalking.

So I'm thinking either of changing one of my rigs into a dedicated hillwalking rig, or building an all new one (I've probably got nearly enough parts to get started, just need chassis and transmission - Inajora seems a good starting point).  If I'm going to build a dedicated hillwalking rig, then it needs to be perfectly suited to the hills and fields on which I walk, and the speeds at which I walk, and it needs to be a good, easy companion on the trails, especially in cold, wet and/or dark conditions.

My thoughts so far, in no particular order:

Easy-change battery.  Having to remove the body, store the body clips, swap out the battery, in the dark and the rain, while wearing gloves, is a pain.  I'm thinking a pickup truck with 3 batteries mounted in the bed.  Either connected in parallel so it'll have 3 times the runtime (more than enough for my legs), or with a quick-change flylead available on the bed, or with a switch-in-switch-out-switchboard so I can toggle which battery I use.  A rolltop would hide the batteries.

Powerful roof light.  Standard "ultrabright" LEDs mounted in RC scale roof boxes just don't cut it.  They don't really light the way.  I've got a broken caving head torch which has some really bright SMDs, I'm wondering if I could solder those into a typical scale spotlamp, or if I'll need to graft in some torch reflectors to get the right beam.  I may need to fabricate a cowl so I don't blind oncoming walkers.

Rear-facing light.  Same as the front lights, but mounted on the rear of the truck, on a swivel so it can help me see where my feet are going.

Light Controller.  Seems like it would be beneficial to be able to turn the lights on and off without having to touch the truck, especially if I've got very bright roof lights and I'm meeting oncoming walkers.

Scale appearance.  This truck will get more public time than anything else I own, so it needs to look good, and look right.  No silly 2.2 monster wheels.  A hard body would be best, with lots of scale accessories.  An overland / expedition style truck sounds best.

Big tyres.  Further to the above, true-scale 85s on 1.7s won't do either.  The grass gets long in the summer, and my true-scale rig got hopelessly bogged down in it.  The 120s that I use on my other rigs seem to be a perfect balance.  They don't even have to grip well - I rarely tackle any terrain that needs a decent tyre.  In fact I've got a few unused kit tyres going spare, or the GMade tyres on the BOM are a personal fave, and are very cheap considering how well they work.

Winch and towing points.  I consider this a must.  Part of the challenge is getting around a track without having to assist the truck.  As the hillwalking aspect may compromise the truck's all-terrain ability, the winch is a useful fallback.  If it can get itself out of the mire with its own winch, that's perfect.

Cruise control.  Really this just means it should work off my FS-i6 handset, which can be programmed with a throttle hold, but an adjustable cruise would be nice.  I'm not sure the FS-i6 can do that, but I could knock up an Arduino with a switchable cruise in it.  Might be able to use it to operate the lights, too.

Waterproof.  Sometimes I come across deep puddles.  Needs to be waterproof.

Trailer hitch.  I like the idea that I can tow my trail toolkit around with me instead of having it weigh down my rucksack.  I won't be putting my trailsnack in there, though, in case of inquisitive dogs or muddy puddles.

Reliable.  It's no fun being 3 miles from the van and having the truck fail.  So far (touch wood) I've not had to bungee my truck to my rucksack to walk home, but I'm sure it'll happen one day.

Fast gearing.  With 120mm tyres and 55T motors, I'm getting around 6 miles.  A good walking pace is somewhere around 80% throttle.  I think I could go further if I could reduce the throttle to maintain pace.  There's no wheel speed in reserve to cover ground quickly, like if I want to run the truck ahead to avoid traffic or focus on walking over a tricky area of terrain.  Taller gearing or a 2 speed transmission would help here.

That's about all I can think of, but has anyone else got any ideas?

[Nikko85 3767]

Two speed would be great.

Light weight would be good, should failure occur perhaps.

Easy to clean or at least a truck that wont need a clean mid drive (or get things caught in the axles or drive train).

Low drag in drive train to get the most out of batteries.

 

[Shergar 141]

A comfortable front or rear bumper you can use as a carry handle/fit your hand into should a fail to proceed occur.

[Mad Ax 10037]

Some great ideas so far, keep 'em coming!

I had an interesting idea today about how my personal take on the hillwalking truck might look.  Last week I was tempted to order an Inajora chassis and transmission to make a start on this during the off-season ready for the lighter evenings next year, but I've had a few parts lying around for a completely different project which I've realised today I'll probably never have the time or money to work on, and by using them to build a hillwalking truck, I could potentially use those parts and cover several different bases at once and save having to buy too many more things or stack up any more unfinished projects.

I doubt I'll bother to reveal my idea too soon - probably wait until I actually get started on it, since I've flip-flopped on this project a lot already since I first took my Budget Bruiser on a walk at the end of the summer.  There's every chance I'll change my mind all over again and go back to an earlier idea, or do something different entirely 

[Badcrumble 4406]

What wheelbase are you working on @Mad Ax?

I'm thinking 313 would be preferable to 275? 

I've a set of Injora 275 chassis rails, FWD motor / gearbox and a spare Jeep Rubicon hardbody to make into something one day. I've some nice big tyres too (the Jeep arches would have to go!) but would the short wheelbase compromise it?

[Mad Ax 10037]

25 minutes ago, Badcrumble said:

What wheelbase are you working on @Mad Ax?

I'm personally thinking a longer wheelbase, purely for practical reasons.  For example, it would be easier to fabricate a battery carrier that can take up to 3 packs.  Plus it will be more stable when the grass gets long in the summer, and there's loads more space to get all the other things like proper lights and light control units in.

Finally, visual presence.  This might not matter to everyone who wants to build a walking rig, but for me, it'll get more public visibility than anything else, so something visually striking works best.  I'd considered one of those Cross RC 6x6 or even 8x8 rigs, but as @Nikko85 says, we want a low-drag drivetrain for longer runtimes.  Plus the genuine Cross RC kits are very expensive, and a DIY option wouldn't be cheap either, way more than I'd planned to spend given I already have several good scale trucks.

I see no reason why a shorter wheelbase wouldn't work, but I'd planned on longer.  In fact my current idea goes outside the realms of standardised wheelbases, because I'd use a cab-only body and build my own back end for it, to better hide the extra batteries.

[Nikko85 3767]

Would the GF02 be an option? Probably too high geared, but it's got a smooth quiet drive train and not too massive. Imagining it with a hard body and lights.

I also had an image of a hummer with portals and then a 3rd channel rotating the top machine gun that is now a pen light.

 

[OldSchoolRC1 1067]

3 packs, holy cow. That's a long hike! 

Totally agree with all the suggestions above, good stuff! I have 2 overlanding trucks that are set up for long runs - a TRX4 and a weird hybrid SCX10. The TRX4 is fun, it keeps me busy working the diffs and 2 speed, and with a sound unit (down low, it gets old quick if it's too loud) it's a total blast. And very capable. The SCX10 is a 4.19 truck for a little more scale challenge and hauls a little camp trailer around behind it - the trailer definitely keeps things interesting.  I try and drive them with no "hand of God" too so winches, ropes, and sand ladders are on each, along with winch anchors strapped somewhere.  Both are set up for full size batteries. 

A few thoughts:

- I keep batteries in my bag. The truck may go for hours, but I don't.  I run full size 4000-5000 packs on both trucks and they run forever. I need a break before they do, and since I'm stopped anyway, a quick battery change is no problem. Magnets or velcro or even screws for the body mounts for sure - I've lost I don't know how many body pins in the woods. Now I just keep spares in my bag. 

- Brushless all day. I like the feel of a brushed motor more, but for efficiency brushless is better, no question. I try to run the lowest KV I can get away with to buy more runtime. I think I have an 1800kv in the SCX and it's plenty for trail running. 

- weight really matters. My TRX4 is pretty heavy and it eats up the battery noticeably faster than my SCX10, even with the trailer. 

- Keep a plastic bag handy or some sort of cover for the radio in case you get caught in the rain. Truck may be waterproof, but the radio isn't!

- make a "truck handle" - I keep one in my bag and I use it a lot more than I thought I would, especially with a few breakdowns this year. I took an old wire coat hanger, threaded it through an old wood handle I had laying around and then bent a few U's in it - it hooks under the axle and gives me a nice comfy handle to carry the truck. Not sure that I'm explaining that correctly, I should get a pic of this contraption.  but it does come in handy. 

 

 

 

 

[Nwc100 462]

I hope this doesn't send you down a rabbit hole but how about one of these, it appears to tick a reasonable amount of the boxes, space for batteries, space for some tools although possibly making a bit high COG.

Would look completely awesome walking one of these, we use our CC02 for walks, a couple of packs allows us a decent walk in our local woods, it's not massively far but with an 8yr old in control often spends a bit of time stuck and head first into trees etc! I've been following the walking threads quite closely, it's something I'd like to do some more of.

Completely agreed on some form of handle or something although I'd prefer to have a form of retaining straps for my backpack to avoid carrying at mess up my COG 🤣

I'd also like an easier to use one handed control than our GT5's I find two handed controlling a bit awkward on anything more than some light trails, maybe I'm just not able to do more than 1 thing at a time!

[El Gecko 1428]

On 12/14/2023 at 10:44 AM, Mad Ax said:

No silly 2.2 monster wheels.

Ouch, that's my bread and butter!

I've given this a lot of thought over the last few years too, and maybe eventually I'll build a dedicated truck just for the trails, but so far my old Sledgehammer is serving the purpose just fine! I've said this before, but somehow even with its open diff, 2WD, 27t motor, NiMH batteries, and what's left of the original lexan body, it has gone places and done things that have surprised and shocked me.

I think a lot of these ideas are good to have, and will improve your experience, but I wouldn't say they're all totally necessary. Just about any truck will work fine on most trails, even better if it has big squishy tires and soft squishy suspension, a low enough gear to climb decently, and a little waterproofing. Heck, I tried a Grasshopper once and it wasn't totally terrible! (the worst part was the bald tires)

Easy-change battery. 
Same as @OldSchoolRC1, I take a bag with me every time, and I keep the batteries in there until needed. It also helps to keep the NiMH cells warmer during cold walks. I'm not much of a night walker (most public areas here close at dusk) so there's usually no worry about changing batteries somewhere on the trail. Some twist ties between two body pins works well to keep them in order. The Sledge has 6 pins to remove the battery (4 on the body and 2 on the battery hold-down) and I haven't lost one yet. It's not scale, or "easy-change", but it's functional.

Powerful roof light. 
I would agree with this, however the Sledge has gone over on its roof more than a few times, and I know if there were lights on the rollbar, they would have probably been destroyed. So far my homemade lightbar behind the front bumper/skidplate is holding strong, and with 4 lamps it's quite bright.

Rear-facing light. 
I can see how this might be beneficial, but the quad red rear lamps on the Sledge have been fine for showing me the way.

Light Controller. 
This is definitely a cool thing, and a great simple addition to any car with lights. Being able to turn the lights on and off from the controller is great. Mine are all run from the "full voltage" line out of the XL-5 ESC through a single remote switch, so they all turn on and off at the same time, but a full-on light controller would be cool for a scale rig. I usually keep them off while driving unless it's a dark overcast day, to save the batteries, and I'll just turn them on when we encounter others on the trail, for visibility.

Scale appearance. 
Yes, it would be great if the truck was scale in appearance, but all I have is a lexan bodied monster truck, so I try not to focus too much on the "scale" aspect of it. And I would also say that if someone is just getting into this type of thing, and wants to drive on trails, just get out there with whatever RC you have, and don't get too hung up on how it looks. It's probably going to get wrecked a bit anyway.

Big tyres. 
Yes, an absolute must. I joked about 2.2 monster wheels above, but they're really pretty great. Monster Beetle tires are a perfect balance for those wheels too, they're softer than my old dry-rotted Traxxas tires, but not as soft as modern crawling rubber, so they can still support the heavy truck without foams, and they have decent traction in most situations. I've also put small dabs of superglue on my tires to hold them on the rims, no beadlock or any special wheels, and they're holding fine. Haven't had to reglue yet.

Winch and towing points. 
This seems more like a personal preference thing. As I said above, the Sledge is constantly surprising me with its agility and ability, but whenever it does get hung up, I'm not too proud to pick the truck up or give it a shove with my foot. I'd rather just keep cruising the trail than do all that finicky stuff, which to me is just totally unnecessary if you're not competing. Plus if you're walking with someone else who maybe isn't driving an RC, they would probably get bored and restless waiting around.

Cruise control. 
This has been great for long flat sections, but as you said, it would be good if it was adjustable since the terrain varies so much. I'm wondering if there's a way to switch the channel assignments on the fly, so we could swap the control of the throttle to one of the little knobs on the top of the i6, which would then provide adjustable cruise without using the throttle hold function?

Waterproof. 
Yeah, pretty much goes without saying, but in my case "mostly waterproof" works well enough. The servo and ESC are waterproof, and I have a plastic bag around the Rx which is not totally sealed, but does a good enough job in every situation so far.

Trailer hitch.
Again personal preference, but I've also considered trying to tow a trailer with my tools in it, or even a flat trailer with a buggy on it like one of the videos I saw on Youtube. However there is a lot more complexity and you have to drive a lot different with a trailer, so I don't think I'd have it for normal trail walks. My tools are usually in the bag with the batteries.

Reliable. 
This I can totally agree with. As others have mentioned a good handle goes a long way, but some way to attach it to the bag on your back would be even better. I've made the long cold walk back to the parking lot carrying the truck, which of course gets heavier with mud or snow slush caked on it, and it was not easy. I could barely lift both my arms afterward. Haven't had a breakdown in a long time, but when I first started doing this it seemed that I broke something just about every time out.

Fast gearing. 
I'm not sure what the gearing works out to, but I think I've got a 10t pinion on the Sledge right now (stock was 12t, and the high speed option was 14t). With a 27t motor it will still do 18mph+ at full tilt, and just chugging along at walking pace on most surfaces (3-5mph) it's less than 25% throttle. I would like to try a 55t motor though, for even longer runtimes and more torque. I've found the 27t a bit underwhelming in some situations, and I probably don't need that much wheelspeed anyway (although it's great for drifting).

[Mad Ax 10037]

Wow!  Some great ideas here!  I especially like @Nikko85's idea of a Hummer with portals - I actually have a Hummer project in the works, I hadn't planned on portals but actually would make for a more scale truck that would run better on the trails.  Neat!

@OldSchoolRC1's suggestion of a truck handle is good, too.  I keep some smaller bungee straps in my rucksack so if the truck breaks down I can secure it on my back, but it's not something I've had to do so far.

I love @El Gecko's alternative take on my ideas, and shows that there's so many ways to do the same thing.  I'm considering building a dedicated walking rig, but that doesn't mean I won't take my other trucks out from time to time.  When it's lighter in the evenings I'll take my Losi LMT, just for fun.  I expect it'll run a long time on a single pack as I'll barely be brushing the throttle.

Finally, special shout to @Nwc100 who seems to have been reading my mind!  I've got a Scania R420 Orange edition in the box.  I cannibalised it for parts years ago, and will cost quite a bit to turn it back into a proper truck kit again, especially once I add in the MFU.  But it occurred to me last week that with some crawler axles it would make a fantastic Dakar truck.  I've looked up some photos of Scania Dakar trucks, and they do exist.  Plenty of space in the back for batteries!  120mm tyres might not be ultra scale, and the crawler axles I have will be a little too wide, but that's something I can handle later.  Ideally a Dakar rig would have diff action for when I want to turn up the pace, but I doubt I'll drive it fast with that precious hardbody anyway, so I'm thinking this could be a great compromise.  Plus every man and his dog has seen an RC pickup before, but a highly detailed RC lorry that can run off road and go through mud?  That'll be new for most non-RC folk, and probably get a lot of attention in the hills.

[Shergar 141]

There is a (partial) solution to crawler axle width - reversed wide crawler rims, you lose a little steering but not much - here on TRX-4 axles and Injora rims on Proline Grunt’s, which gives a 220mm width, @ pulls in 10mm a side.

I’ve dumped a Volvo shell on an upturned crawler project - food for thought?

[Shergar 141]

Another view (imagine theres a gap in the arches!):

[Mad Ax 10037]

Neat idea there @Shergar !  I would probably use a narrow offset wheel anyway but a reversed wide rim is a good shout.

If I go this route (when I've cleared off some other projects) then I'll probably start with the axles I have lying around, but I've already started looking at alternatives.  MTX-1 axles are fairly narrow, plus they have working diffs, which will be a benefit if I want this truck to drive like a proper rally truck on occasion.  MTX-1 axles don't seem to come up often but the full kit is full of useful donor parts for this and other projects, and spares for my runner MTX-1.  So I'm kinda tempted!  But later - there's too much on my project list already right now  

[Mad Ax 10037]

I had a couple more ideas while I was out walking in the dark in some boggy conditions last week.

Ability to carry functional trail accessories on or in the rig - this is a contentious point, as a while back I was at a scaler meet with a friend, who had printed carriers for his ground anchor, hi-lift jack etc, and bolted them to the side of his Land Rover.  The problem was, ever time it rolled over, the scale accessories unclipped and went in the mud.  The risk of losing something was high.  These days, at technical events, I tend to keep all the accessories I might need (specifically ground anchors) in a pouch or pocket, so I can get at them easily.

When I'm out walking, I want to keep my personal loadout to a minimum.  I don't really like hanging things off my belt when I'm on a longer walk.  A set of tools, a hydration pack and a trail snack add enough weight to my rucksack, especially when I have to prepare for changeable weather and carry a jacket and/or waterproofs as well.

We've already discussed allowing for multiple batteries in the ultimate hillwalking rig, but why not add a carry case for ground anchors, tow lines, and other stuff that might come in handy?  For that matter, why not put a strap so my trail tool kit can go in there, too?

Lights under the body - I had to change the battery in my SCX10 in the pitch dark.  I wasn't wearing my head torch (the lights on the truck were enough to walk by) but they went off as soon as I pulled the battery wire.  I'm prepared to accept that I'll have to put on my head torch if I need to make any more than trivial repairs in the hills, but for simple tasks like changing the pack, a simple LED under the body that points down towards the battery area would make life much easier.  Perhaps even with a microswitch that turns it on as soon as the lid is lifted.