Better transmitters and their benefits

[Pylon80]

1 minute ago, markbt73 said:

Kind of an aside, but is model memory really that big of a deal to most people? I use basic but good-quality radios (Spektrum, Tactic, low-end Futaba) and none of them have model memory. I put velcro on the receivers and swap them from car to car. At most, when switching from one car to the other, it's a flip of a reversing switch, or a click or two one way or the other on the steering trim. Would it be nice to have that all at the touch of a button? Sure, I guess. Is it worth buying a much more expensive transmitter and a bunch of extra receivers just for that? Not to me...

You also need to adjust the steering EPA's so it does add up and takes a bit of time. But I agree that you can save a lot of money with a basic system. This year I experimented with the cheap Tactic set that was basically the price of the Rx that came with it plus a few $. I use it for off-road only in case I have to handle the Tx with dust/sand/grit on my hands. For on-road I have an expensive aircraft stick Tx.

[Wooders28]

3 minutes ago, markbt73 said:

is model memory really that big of a deal to most people?

Depends how many cars you have.

I've you've only 1 or 2, then probably not.

If you've 20+, then yes. I've an rx in pretty much all mine, so just turn on the tx, scroll down to 'X' car, throw a lipo in the car and away I go, all the settings are saved, the steering end points etc etc, and that's that. 

[Sogogi]

9 minutes ago, markbt73 said:

Kind of an aside, but is model memory really that big of a deal to most people? I use basic but good-quality radios (Spektrum, Tactic, low-end Futaba) and none of them have model memory. I put velcro on the receivers and swap them from car to car. At most, when switching from one car to the other, it's a flip of a reversing switch, or a click or two one way or the other on the steering trim. Would it be nice to have that all at the touch of a button? Sure, I guess. Is it worth buying a much more expensive transmitter and a bunch of extra receivers just for that? Not to me...

For me it is convenience. Especially now i have more than 10 cars, some of them have different trim/ endpoint settings as well as reversed throttle/steering which i don’t have to worry about adjusting when i want to switch between cars on the go. 

[Sogogi]

ugh double post

[Sogogi]

Double post..

[Sogogi]

omg triple post..

[Wooders28]

4 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:

But I agree that you can save a lot of money with a basic system

Horses for courses.

If the rx are cheaper than a full cheap system, then it's debatable.

If you've 10 cars, and spend £30 on a cheap system, but the rx are £20 for a multi model, then it can add up.

Then the cheap system won't have epa etc for that money.

[markbt73]

22 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

Depends how many cars you have.

I've you've only 1 or 2, then probably not.

If you've 20+, then yes. I've an rx in pretty much all mine, so just turn on the tx, scroll down to 'X' car, throw a lipo in the car and away I go, all the settings are saved, the steering end points etc etc, and that's that. 

At last count I have 39 drivable cars. 5 of them have their own dedicated radio. The rest share.

I get the convenience, but I'm just saying it isn't absolutely necessary, and to me, it isn't a selling point. But then, neither are exponential curves or telemetry or any of that other stuff. If it makes the car go, stop, and turn, and doesn't feel like cheap junk, that's good enough for me. I'll fiddle with a couple of dials to save probably hundreds in radio gear.

[Wooders28]

8 minutes ago, markbt73 said:

At last count I have 39 drivable cars. 5 of them have their own dedicated radio. The rest share.

I get the convenience, but I'm just saying it isn't absolutely necessary, and to me, it isn't a selling point. But then, neither are exponential curves or telemetry or any of that other stuff. If it makes the car go, stop, and turn, and doesn't feel like cheap junk, that's good enough for me. I'll fiddle with a couple of dials to save probably hundreds in radio gear.

I didn't think I needed it either, until I got one that had it. Setting the end points for the steering is a must on modern buggies, not sure if they used to be designed for the throw of an old acoms/futaba servo , but now it's presumed you have the ability to alter it?

Swapping back to my old radio is an eye opener too, the delay takes you by surprise again, as your heart skips a beat, when it doesn't respond.

I've a decent radio, and to get another car to run, it's £30 for a reciever (or could be £20, if the cheap ones work ok)

 

[tim.senecal]

1 hour ago, markbt73 said:

Kind of an aside, but is model memory really that big of a deal to most people? I use basic but good-quality radios (Spektrum, Tactic, low-end Futaba) and none of them have model memory. I put velcro on the receivers and swap them from car to car. At most, when switching from one car to the other, it's a flip of a reversing switch, or a click or two one way or the other on the steering trim. Would it be nice to have that all at the touch of a button? Sure, I guess. Is it worth buying a much more expensive transmitter and a bunch of extra receivers just for that? Not to me...

I have 37 models on my custom built radio, and 24 already copied over to the mt12.   either of those radios has slots for 60 models, and an infinite number can be backed up to the sd card, and removed/reinstalled when i want them.   i spent $180 building the custom radio, and $130 for the MT12.  the gt3b that the custom built model stole the lower body and pots from was $40.  for me to have an individual "cheaper" radio for all 37 models, if they could all be run from the gt3b, would still have been $1400+, and i know of at least 10 that are too complex to be run from a gt3b, so i am really looking at more like at $2000 worth of transmitters instead of $310.   most of the models use the 4 channel frsky receiver, others are using assan 6 channel receivers, frsky 8 channel receivers, tactic 3 channel receivers, and some use a 3 channel flysky receiver.  total cost in receivers is less than $550.   so the total cost invested is basically the same as a futaba 10px and 3 of their receivers.

In at least half the cases i would not be able to simply swap a velcro mounted receiver from one machine to the other.  in a few cases, a single "model" has as many as 3 receivers.

 

at the very least, having one (plus a backup) smart transmitter, with individual receivers for all my models, i don't have to memorize 37 different settings.  i select a model, and am done with it.  i just need to remember to charge batteries 

[Kowalski86]

1 hour ago, markbt73 said:

Kind of an aside, but is model memory really that big of a deal to most people? I use basic but good-quality radios (Spektrum, Tactic, low-end Futaba) and none of them have model memory. I put velcro on the receivers and swap them from car to car.

It's handy when you have a handful of oddball models in your line-up, like an ORV chassis with a glass transmission, a TT02 "rally" with an overpowered servo that can traction roll, or an XV01.

I mainly use a FlySky GT3B which has EPA adjustment, dual rate, ABS, and a 30 model memory. Biggest drawback is that it eats up 8 AA batteries, so it's a little heavy and knows.

Before the GT3B, I used a GT2 significantly and wore out the throttle trigger in about a year. Theyre about $10 cheaper but you get much less features.

When I want more precision I use a Team Associated XP controller/reciever, their RTR gear isn't half bad. Meanwhile my Redcat had its own receiver that I'm confident is just a relabled FlySky. The worst transmitters that I've handled were all newer Traxxas RTR units, since they use a menu system in place of just adding a few knobs.

I've learned the hard way that it's best to use velcro or a more lightweight double sided tape for receivers, I've split a Tactic receiver in two using really strong double sided tape.

[markbt73]

The only reason I bring it up is that it's getting to be a theme around here: someone new shows up asking for advice, and 20 people tell them that they "need" to spend a bunch of money on X, Y, and Z "just in case" they want it in the future. The sticker shock alone is enough to scare some folks off, I bet.

A box-stock TT02 and the basic "completion kit" offered by a lot of websites will be a fine way to start for 99% of people. So I just try to reinforce that point whenever it comes up.

[BuggyDad]

9 minutes ago, markbt73 said:

The only reason I bring it up is that it's getting to be a theme around here: someone new shows up asking for advice, and 20 people tell them that they "need" to spend a bunch of money on X, Y, and Z "just in case" they want it in the future. The sticker shock alone is enough to scare some folks off, I bet.

A box-stock TT02 and the basic "completion kit" offered by a lot of websites will be a fine way to start for 99% of people. So I just try to reinforce that point whenever it comes up.

It's a fair point but it's also why I moved this discussion to its own thread, because I'd accidentally kicked it off on a "new to RC" thread where it wasn't appropriate. For my money, once I've moved above pretty basic kit, I'm happy to pay a bit more for this feature. I use it on my already quite basic radio. If I run a car at all I often run three, but only for 5 minutes each. Eg at the moment I've often got changes and stuff on them but a short window before work on a winter's morning is my only daylight opportunity to try things out. Nice to have things ready to go. 

[Willy iine]

2 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

Depends how many cars you have.

I've you've only 1 or 2, then probably not.

If you've 20+, then yes. I've an rx in pretty much all mine, so just turn on the tx, scroll down to 'X' car, throw a lipo in the car and away I go, all the settings are saved, the steering end points etc etc, and that's that. 

In addition to @Wooders28's excellent explanation, one model can have different drive settings.. like I may have one model setting for parking lot, and another model setting for loose gravel for the same car, and another, etc.   So model memory is very convenient if you drive on different environments, including different motor and tire settings.  

I also run countdown timer which is super convenient to keep track of how much power I have remaining based on past drive times.. and different driving environment will consume more or less power which affect run time.   I have telemetry, but some of my older receivers do not.

 

[alvinlwh]

.

[Twinfan]

 

2 hours ago, markbt73 said:

Kind of an aside, but is model memory really that big of a deal to most people? I use basic but good-quality radios (Spektrum, Tactic, low-end Futaba) and none of them have model memory. I put velcro on the receivers and swap them from car to car. At most, when switching from one car to the other, it's a flip of a reversing switch, or a click or two one way or the other on the steering trim. Would it be nice to have that all at the touch of a button? Sure, I guess. Is it worth buying a much more expensive transmitter and a bunch of extra receivers just for that? Not to me...

I'm similar, I have one basic Carson Stick transmitter and a bunch of receivers in several cars.  Each car is hooked up to the same transmitter, there's no limit to how many can connect, and I have a small file on my phone with the steering trim and dual rate (EPA) setting for each car.  If I take a couple of cars to the park it's just a few seconds to find the different settings and hook them up.

Receivers are <£20 and I can get brand new replacement transmitters for £25.  In two years I've gone through two - one used one and one new one.  So I'm currently in for around £65 of transmitters.  I don't race, and I want sticks without a 4-way throttle stick, so my choices are pretty limited anyway.

 

1 hour ago, markbt73 said:

The only reason I bring it up is that it's getting to be a theme around here: someone new shows up asking for advice, and 20 people tell them that they "need" to spend a bunch of money on X, Y, and Z "just in case" they want it in the future. The sticker shock alone is enough to scare some folks off, I bet.

A box-stock TT02 and the basic "completion kit" offered by a lot of websites will be a fine way to start for 99% of people. So I just try to reinforce that point whenever it comes up.

Agreed 100%.  Some of us just want to have fun bashing in the park with a modest outlay.  Racing is different, as is wanting to have something high quality, but it doesn't mean you should advise others to do the same as a necessity.

 

[BuggyDad]

7 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

When I bought my Sanwa, I had to kind of learn to drive again, as I kept turning in too early, as it just reacted so quick compared to my Corerc.

This is the kind of comment that interests me. That does sound like a pretty nice thing to have.

Anyway, I feel a spreadsheet coming on. Hold onto your hats.

 

Model	Transmitter (+1 Rx)	Additional receivers	What does it bring over cheaper options?
Absima CR3P	£60	£10
FlySky GT3B	Less		Sounds comparable to CR3P above in quality terms
FlySky GT5	Similar to CR3P		Gyros, maybe some quality improvement
Futaba 3PV	£100		Basic but seems well thought of. Similar functions to CR3P, presumably much nicer quality, [presumably noticeably faster?]
Futaba 4PV	>£200		Has this been replaced by 4PM?
Futaba 4PM	£225	£35-47 OEM, less for knock-offs	It sounds comparable to Sanwa MT5 Meant to be much faster than eg 3PV Mindboggling array of functions "Sweetspot"?
Sanwa MT5	£255	£50 OEM, £25ish for knock-offs (DasMikro)	Comments that it maybe edges the 4PM by a shade on speed but can't imagine I'd notice
Noble NB4	£170-190 inc 2x receivers	£20 (or £33 with gyro)	Regarded as competitor to 4PM & MT5 USB charging is nice as is really solid build quality, some reviews put it a shade below MT5/4PM in steering quality but it sounds like many racers like it.

 

It feels to me like there are four groups:

• Entry level (CR3P et al)
• The 3PV
• The £200 radios
• The really fancy racer gear that is never for me and so not even looked into

It sounds like the c.£200 radios are a chunk better, although it's still subjective as to whether I'd really notice. The Noble looks quite appealling. It appears to be a cheaper way into that approximate quality band (especially ref receivers) and if there's a small quality disadvantage compared to MT5/4PM it's probably too small for me to notice (probably already into, for me, the super responsive category), where I would notice the sturdy chassis and USB charging over AAAs.

[Wooders28]

17 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

This is the kind of comment that interests me. That does sound like a pretty nice thing to have.

Weirdly, they don't stay fast, as you get used to it, it's just....normal. (probably the same as getting a faster 1:1 car, few weeks in, it's not as fast as it first was). You notice though, when you get the old controller in your mits.

 

17 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

The really fancy racer gear that is never for me and so not even looked into

This is where being in a club shines.

The sponsored guy who's just switched from futaba to sanwa, or the ,money no object guy, who quite liked the look, but ran it once and got something else,  2nd hand sales, which probably fall in the sub £200 category...

[Kowalski86]

8 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

It sounds like the c.£200 radios are a chunk better, although it's still subjective as to whether I'd really notice.

It really depends on what you're controlling, running a very carefully tuned Xray on carpet? The extra precision, feel, and lightweight of a high end transmitter can pay off.

Jumping a Grasshopper off curbs with a 20+ year old Futaba "indirect drive" servo? May as well use whatever is cheapest.

[alvinlwh]

.

[Jonathon Gillham]

11 hours ago, markbt73 said:

The only reason I bring it up is that it's getting to be a theme around here: someone new shows up asking for advice, and 20 people tell them that they "need" to spend a bunch of money on X, Y, and Z "just in case" they want it in the future. The sticker shock alone is enough to scare some folks off, I bet.

A box-stock TT02 and the basic "completion kit" offered by a lot of websites will be a fine way to start for 99% of people. So I just try to reinforce that point whenever it comes up.

I agree with your point that a basic completion kit is adequate. It will get the car going, no question.

Bear in mind this thread was started to discuss higher end tx so as not to derail a beginner thread too, so all the answers are in that context. 

I made so many mistakes when getting back into the hobby which were through inexperience and I wished I had known a few things. Its worth spending the extra on the FS GT3C over the GT3B or GT2 models. It has a battery included and a few key functions (epa and multi models) its 10s of dollars more but the extra value is huge. The FS GT3C is the radio I would recommend as a first radio (unless the person os loaded!)

There is also an issue with going too cheap and ruining the experience. In rc the most common thing would be servos which are too slow or break, and obviously the kit breaking. 

Another point to this thread is the subjective part of it - what feels better in the hand. Anyone can offer an opinion based on the stated specs, but its not until you've used them that you really get it. Thats where people like @Wooders28 experience is invaluable as you can't get that from a spec sheet. Also the comparison between a Jaguar and Toyota is relevant.

So for a beginner, the FS GT3C is great value for money. For an experienced RCer, a Sanwa MT5 or Futaba 4PM (the 4PV looked better but has been superseded) is the better recommendation which is what this thread is about.

You've raised another issue though - chargers. A decent dual charger is worth its weight in gold!

[Wooders28]

10 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Really depends on what. The HotRC CT-8A I recently got costs around £30, RX costs £8 a pop. Has EPA and much more features. Even has RSSI, which I had to Google for! Granted I have not tested it in anger yet, but if someone is going for a £30 system as you described, I will assume one that is not racing looking to shave milliseconds off their laps. £30 can get that someone surprisingly lots these days, if one is not going for a badge.

My trouble (?), is I can't drive a wheel, almost 40yrs of driving sticks, and a wheel is so wrong, I have to think about every action and it makes it really unenjoyable to drive, so radios like that of yours, just pass me by.

I've seen people with PlayStation type controller ones , (seemingly big in the drone world?), but even though it was sticks, it was tiny and so I didn't like it.

I'm not sure if you shave time around a track ,because the reaction time is better? the more features mean you can set the car up for you better? or the fact the controller feels right in your hands, and you just enjoy it more? 

The last point is subjective, and only you can decide if you like the 'feel' of a radio or not.

My daughter is running the CR3P atm, she seems to like it, but I'll probably get her an MT5 at some point, make it known I'm looking for one at the club, and a decent 2nd hand one should turn up.

 

[Kpowell911]

Another thing….. Whilst I think investing in a decent radio dramatically improves your RC experience, I cannot stress the importance of a quality service. I think you can get away with cheaper ESC/Motors, especially brushless ones. But servo’s are well worth investing in. Those ‘25kg red Amazon’ ones are tragic. Im sorru, they just are and they just ruin driving an RC for me. Im not saying you need a £120 servo in your Lunchbox, but you definitely see an improvement by investing in a decent steering servo

[Twinfan]

40 minutes ago, Kpowell911 said:

Another thing….. Whilst I think investing in a decent radio dramatically improves your RC experience, I cannot stress the importance of a quality service. I think you can get away with cheaper ESC/Motors, especially brushless ones. But servo’s are well worth investing in. Those ‘25kg red Amazon’ ones are tragic. Im sorru, they just are and they just ruin driving an RC for me. Im not saying you need a £120 servo in your Lunchbox, but you definitely see an improvement by investing in a decent steering servo

Yep, I have a couple of cheap ones and the most annoying thing is that they don't return to centre properly - they stick on one side or the other.  I can live with them for now as they're only in basher, but at some point I'm going to swap them out for decent ones.

[gkatz]

as a newbie, the thing out of my purchases I would change is buy a TX with model memory. there are plenty around the 50-70USD mark.
i also need to keep the RX cost to a minimum (40EU is not ok with me).

so it all depends on the needs of the buyer. i will probably not race and I will hardly drive my cars - I just like to build. but I will take them from time to time for a spin. I started with 1 car, I have another on the way and already thinking of my next one