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BuggyDad

Better transmitters and their benefits

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15 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

Its worth spending the extra on the FS GT3C over the GT3B or GT2 models. It has a battery included and a few key functions (epa and multi models) its 10s of dollars more but the extra value is huge. The FS GT3C is the radio I would recommend as a first radio (unless the person os loaded!)

...

So for a beginner, the FS GT3C is great value for money. For an experienced RCer, a Sanwa MT5 or Futaba 4PM (the 4PV looked better but has been superseded) is the better recommendation which is what this thread is about.

I've got the fairly exclusive Flysky/Futaba crossover edition GT3C. :ph34r:

...technically that is only because I used the Futaba Heavy Duty Gimbal Spring to replace the broken spring in my steering...  I think that means it is a *Limited Edition* :D

I would still recommend the GT3C even with my spring issue.  I broke it, pulled it apart and bent a new loop off the spring, ran it for a while and broke it again.  Replaced with the Futaba part. Otherwise it has been really good.

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3 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

There's not even that option now, the Exzes ZZ has been discontinued...😳

Think its only really the futaba T4GRS.

Really?  It still seems to be available?

If so I may have to grab a higher end stick transmitter while I can then  :o

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I would love to see a highly technical third party review of the radios out there.  Actual response times at a consistent servo & motor/esc, trigger pull load & response range, steering wheel (or stick) load & response range, that kind of stuff.

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55 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

I kinda feel like the Noble is a risk, but if the risk pays off then it's a win. Battery/USB and Alu chassis are clear advantages for me I think. A search on here only brings happy owners but the numbers are small.

But then, can you ever really trust a lefty? 😜

Other forums have 103 page threads of mostly fluff and heavy with confirmation bias, so hard to glean quality info from. 

Would be interesting to hear why your Noble-to-Sanwa guy moved. 

I suspect he moved to follow the crowd. His initial setup was at the cheaper end (Sakura onroad chassis) so I guess he upgraded everything once he established he liked it. Actually those Sakura kits are a great example of buying cheap and it ruining the fun - they broke all the time.

My M17 is charged through a usb port, just like the FS GT3C. I assume the MT5 will too as its a new model? 

Thats one downside about futaba - pretty sure they take life batteries which are near impossible to get. Sanwa takes lipos and there are plenty of options available even if the don't all charge with a USB

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1 hour ago, SlideWRX said:

I broke it, pulled it apart and bent a new loop off the spring

Both of our Absimas are, er, "running this mod" 🙄

I have the springs in stock actually, but it might take another breakage to get me back in there to replace. 

52 minutes ago, SlideWRX said:

I would love to see a highly technical third party review of the radios out there.  Actual response times at a consistent servo & motor/esc, trigger pull load & response range, steering wheel (or stick) load & response range, that kind of stuff.

Agree! Also some sort of science behind other perceived pro/cons, like how linear the wheel travel vs servo travel is (seemed to be a complaint on the Noble, should be quantifiable). 

It'd also be nice if youtubers didn't spend 14 of their 15 minutes repeating themselves. But hey, I guess that's the world we live in! 

8 minutes ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

Thats one downside about futaba - pretty sure they take life batteries which are near impossible to get. Sanwa takes lipos and there are plenty of options available even if the don't all charge with a USB

Interesting. Y'know, it may sound silly but for me, stuff like just plugging it into the USB on the counter is significant. If I'm investing in better kit I want that kind of convenience. And I'd like it to be USB-C too. 

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1 hour ago, BuggyDad said:

Interesting. Y'know, it may sound silly but for me, stuff like just plugging it into the USB on the counter is significant. If I'm investing in better kit I want that kind of convenience. And I'd like it to be USB-C too. 

The M17 comes with a 1S lipo but the MT5 doesn't. However, it can take one (the Sanwa branded one is actually reasonably priced) and then can be charged with a USB cable. Here the MT5 is NZD499 and the battery NZD69, so its getting up there. It takes 3 AAA batteries otherwise which is much better than the 8 AAs from years ago!

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8 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

That is easy, there are various servo signal testers out there to test receiver signals. Even my SkyRC ESC program card can do that.

I think the point is to measure the delay between the mechanical input on the tx wheel and the response at the servo horn, from one Tx/Rx to another.

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8 hours ago, tim.senecal said:

Seriously, look into the Radiomaster mt12.   it is as fast as the MT5 when using ELRS, but the 4-in-1 version will bind to 70+ different receivers.   get the 4-in-1, add the elrs module, and you have the best of both worlds for £150.

That MT12 is looking pretty impressive, especially for the price!

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13 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Oh this was in my first and second RC in 2009 from TTM Stevenage. Pulled them out when I restarted RCing in 2021, replaced with a Carson Reflex Stick 3.1 Pro (again from TTM, East Lothian this time) and never looked back. Still have the Acoms AS-17 servos knocking about somewhere too.

gKxLEol.jpg

Servo reverse and LED's! They got a bit posh 🤣

This is the one I had, and remember the most. The premium 'Deal 2' and the Futaba Attack had servo reverse, but I didn't go for that, as I didn't need all those features....🙄🤣.

(Not my thread, but googled to get a pic, this came up so....)

 

12 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

One day I want to make a sleeper version of that, with Hall effect ball raced gimbals and 2.4ghz electronics inside :D

There's a guy down in Carlisle (not sure if he's on here?) that's done a 2.4ghz swap, he sent me links and they weren't that expensive if I remember right (can't find them now though....🤦‍♂️).

Might be the only option though, if sticks stop getting made 😳

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I picked my Sanwa MTR mostly for sentimental reasons. I used to have an Airtronics Clipper 3P back in the day and really loved it. For me it was a. huge step up from the Futaba Magnum Jr. I started with. So when it came time to get another transmitter I didn't really look at the options, I knew I was getting a Sanwa. The only question was which one, the MTR does more than I will ever need and was the next step up from the basic $100 entry model. I truly love it, but if I were honest I will tell you that the receivers are expensive at $100 a pop and the the radio system is way too fast for me. I had to dial it back to keep from turning in too fast. All that said, I'm glad I picked it.

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On 12/28/2023 at 4:49 PM, tim.senecal said:

Seriously, look into the Radiomaster mt12.   it is as fast as the MT5 when using ELRS, but the 4-in-1 version will bind to 70+ different receivers.   get the 4-in-1, add the elrs module, and you have the best of both worlds for £150.

Doing a spot of research on the MT12 to see how it stacks up against the Noble. 

Looks like the the 4 in 1 version (inc one receiver) plus battery is £150-160 plus ELRS module on top. Can you point me in the direction of the right ELRS module? 

Ability to use an open range of receivers is really flexible. Although I'm minded to avoid being too swayed by the sunk cost of the receivers I have (and they were cheap anyway), there's a lot to be said for open source if it also means some future not-yet-thought-of decision is also not skuppered by a choice I make today. I guess we've all experienced signing up to an "ecosystem" only to find later that another has overtaken it and we need to throw a lot away to keep going. Is that a genuine benefit or too much conjecture? Will the Radiomaster maintain its "universal compatibility" (kinda) badge as new protocols develop? Other manufacturers don't seem to share an incentive for open source or cross-compatibility and I don't see a force in the market to change that. 

In the Noble's favour over the Mt12 is a solid chassis and nicer form factor (probably the clincher to be honest) and I'm a bit wary of extra modules etc. With Noble I'd be using it in absolutely standard form (and I do like my tech to be as standard/off the shelf as possible. I'm a mechanical tinkerer but not an electronic one).

Before the costs saved in reused receivers the Noble is slightly cheaper. Only one or two reused receivers and the Radiomaster becomes cheaper. Sanwa and Futaba are more expensive however you look at it. 

I also wonder how much of the speed/performance is down to transmitter vs receiver vs which protocol it's using? Like does the great feedback on the MT12 only really apply to running it paired to its own receivers? 

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It looks like the Ranger nano ELRS module is the one from Radiomaster that plugs right in.

https://www.radiomasterrc.com/products/ranger-nano-2-4ghz-elrs-module

here is a list of the known protocols the 4-in-1 supports: (70 so far)

https://github.com/pascallanger/DIY-Multiprotocol-TX-Module/blob/master/Protocols_Details.md

That is a lot! but not (for example) the new Flysky ANT protocol - that is apparently a using a different chip from what the 4-in-1 module has.  If someone creates a module for it, however it could become available at a later date.  Maybe if the ground based stuff becomes popular enough for the EdgeTX team and/or Radiomaster, perhaps a 5-in-1 or 6-in-1 module might get created to deal with newer ground chips/protocols/receivers? Possibly an additional module...

Ultimately that gives a lot of options for where you get your new receivers, not just what is already in your collection.

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16 hours ago, SlideWRX said:

It looks like the Ranger nano ELRS module is the one from Radiomaster that plugs right in.

https://www.radiomasterrc.com/products/ranger-nano-2-4ghz-elrs-module

Nice one. Thanks. So that puts the "fully loaded" Mt12 at maybe £200 including one receiver. Still good value since 3 reused receivers in and it becomes the cheapest of the 4. Just for fun, I feel a graph coming on:

Tx graph

More expensive receivers are available on most of these but let's regard those as extra I might do on top regardless of model chosen = ignore.

I'd need to get my head around buying into something a little more complicated, and move on from fancying the aluminium chassis and form factor of the Noble, to go for the MT12 though.

I think at <£100 over the MT12 even if I stick as many models on it as I'm likely to own in a good couple of years (and assuming I have that many redundant receivers to reuse - maybe I don't), the Noble is still pipping it. In reality, I'll leave some models on Absima.

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On 1/2/2024 at 8:27 PM, SlideWRX said:

It looks like the Ranger nano ELRS module is the one from Radiomaster that plugs right in.

https://www.radiomasterrc.com/products/ranger-nano-2-4ghz-elrs-module

Although I couldn't test it with a matching receiver yet, this one seems to work with the MT12, too - and it's cheaper than the RM Ranger

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DDnfQWF

 

At least it's recognized & activated by my MT12 so far ... waiting for the RXes now.

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Decision made. I have gone for the NB4, plus a Gyro receiver and some temperature and battery voltage sensors. 

Quite excited to have a play with it. 

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2 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

Decision made. I have gone for the NB4, plus a Gyro receiver and some temperature and battery voltage sensors. 

Quite excited to have a play with it. 

Congrats!

I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts on it once you get it (as I'm sure many others would as well).  I've always been a Futaba guy, but when it was time to upgrade my 4PK last year, the Noble NB4/Pro almost convinced me to switch teams.  It was really hard to find anyone who had anything bad to say about them... but eventually I chickened out since I had no way of seeing one in person first, and since the pricing in Canada wasn't that great.  I was looking for something with over 4 channels, and the PRO fit the bill... but was almost $800 (which was 10PX territory). 

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1 hour ago, bRIBEGuy said:

Congrats!

I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts on it once you get it (as I'm sure many others would as well).  I've always been a Futaba guy, but when it was time to upgrade my 4PK last year, the Noble NB4/Pro almost convinced me to switch teams.  It was really hard to find anyone who had anything bad to say about them... but eventually I chickened out since I had no way of seeing one in person first, and since the pricing in Canada wasn't that great.  I was looking for something with over 4 channels, and the PRO fit the bill... but was almost $800 (which was 10PX territory). 

Thanks! Well, I will inevitably pipe up with some thoughts but as a novice without any experience of the good stuff* they might not be worth much! 

*which may be a significant factor in my choice, of course. 

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1 hour ago, bRIBEGuy said:

Congrats!

I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts on it once you get it (as I'm sure many others would as well).  I've always been a Futaba guy, but when it was time to upgrade my 4PK last year, the Noble NB4/Pro almost convinced me to switch teams.  It was really hard to find anyone who had anything bad to say about them... but eventually I chickened out since I had no way of seeing one in person first, and since the pricing in Canada wasn't that great.  I was looking for something with over 4 channels, and the PRO fit the bill... but was almost $800 (which was 10PX territory). 

I thought you got the 10PX?   The only other non-Futaba radio I considered when it was time to upgrade my 4PK-R was the M17.  But since the 7PX-R is fully backwards compatible with my FAAST receivers (which I have a bunch of) and the Mini-Z EVO's, the choice was easy.  B)

I will get a Sanwa (M17 class) radio one day though and run my 10 or so of my favorite off-roaders with it.    👍

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15 hours ago, Willy iine said:

I thought you got the 10PX?   The only other non-Futaba radio I considered when it was time to upgrade my 4PK-R was the M17.  But since the 7PX-R is fully backwards compatible with my FAAST receivers (which I have a bunch of) and the Mini-Z EVO's, the choice was easy.  B)

I did, yes.  I was saying the Noble stuff was in the running, but the decision process was sort of like this:

4PK --> Want 10PX but too much money --> Research everything else --> Noble NB4 is nice --> "Need" more than 4 channels --> Noble Pro is nice --> Noble Pro is almost as much as a 10PX --> 10PX is on Sale --> 10PX purchased.

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26 minutes ago, bRIBEGuy said:

I did, yes.  I was saying the Noble stuff was in the running, but the decision process was sort of like this:

4PK --> Want 10PX but too much money --> Research everything else --> Noble NB4 is nice --> "Need" more than 4 channels --> Noble Pro is nice --> Noble Pro is almost as much as a 10PX --> 10PX is on Sale --> 10PX purchased.

NB4 does a gazzilion channels if you want it to, doesn't it? 

Otherwise that thought process is pretty much as mine would normally be, I just got a bit spreadsheety-pseudo-sensible this time round to dress it up as something better. 

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