F1 Chassis Info

[87lc2 2837]

So I've recently started racing my F104 and absolutely love it.  Would like to learn more about the previous Tamiya F1 chassis and thinking about getting one with a shorter wheelbase for one of the smaller tracks I run at.  It looks like some of the older models are shorter, but I can't tell for sure. 

I guess my questions are, is one of the older F1 chassis short wheelbase?  If so which one should I look out for, and most importantly would I even be able to get parts/bodies to actually run it?  I don;'t do shelf queens and would race the car.  If this is a bad idea just let me know and I'll stick with the F104 for now. 

[Pylon80 3482]

I believe the F103 is 260mm wheelbase but I don't own one. @TurnipJF does, and races his F103's!

Now if you were going to race I would probably go with a modern F1 chassis. Some are absolute bargains in terms of cost vs. performance&engineering, and they are "around" 260mm wheelbase. My pick would be the Roche F1 Evo that also has adjustable wheelbase (in addition to being shorter than 270mm). I have sold mine long ago  so I cannot get a precise measurement for you.

[87lc2 2837]

12 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:

I believe the F103 is 260mm wheelbase but I don't own one. @TurnipJF does, and races his F103's!

Now if you were going to race I would probably go with a modern F1 chassis. Some are absolute bargains in terms of cost vs. performance&engineering, and they are "around" 260mm wheelbase. My pick would be the Roche F1 Evo that also has adjustable wheelbase (in addition to being shorter than 270mm). I have sold mine long ago  so I cannot get a precise measurement for you.

Thank you as usual @Pylon80 for the great info.   I always like to stick with Tamiya when I can, but maybe it will make sense to get a modern chassis.  The Roche Evo chassis looks reasonably priced, thanks for that.  I've been trying to do some reading/looking, but the F1 stuff is a bit confusing at times.  I definitely want something with an adjustable wheelbase though, good to know some of the other brand chassis can offer that. 

[Pylon80 3482]

I totally see where you are coming from with Tamiya  and it would be cool if you beat everyone with an old F103! One more thing is tire availability on the F103. It might not be as easy as getting F104 tires especially for us in the US. Definitely something important for you to consider as you will be racing. Tires from the F104 are NOT compatible with the F103.

[87lc2 2837]

2 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:

I totally see where you are coming from with Tamiya  and it would be cool if you beat everyone with an old F103! One more thing is tire availability on the F103. It might not be as easy as getting F104 tires especially for us in the US. Definitely something important for you to consider as you will be racing. Tires from the F104 are NOT compatible with the F103.

Oh, so the older chassis use different wheel setups?  That's definitely an issue...I have been running the CRC wheels/tires on the F104 and they are perfect, don't want to switch to anything else at the moment.  I just assumed they all used the same setup with bearings up front and 14mm hex out back. 

 

[Pylon80 3482]

20 minutes ago, 87lc2 said:

Oh, so the older chassis use different wheel setups?  That's definitely an issue...I have been running the CRC wheels/tires on the F104 and they are perfect, don't want to switch to anything else at the moment.  I just assumed they all used the same setup with bearings up front and 14mm hex out back. 

 

Yes they are very different tires. With the F104 Tamiya made the cars look more contemporary and so the tire diameter and width are very different. Using F104 wheels/tires on an F103 I think the car would scrape the ground. There is good info on this Australian website:

https://www.rcformula1.com.au/index.php/tech-tips/tyres

 

[junkmunki 850]

The other thing to consider with the older F1 models, is that a lot of the components were metal, as opposed to the later plastic parts. If you go back to the late 70s and early 80s kits, the chassis plate itself was metal.

If you want to go short wheelbase, consider one of the 80s F2 kits from Tamiya. Quite rare, but lots of fun.

One thing to remember though, the older kits are getting a lot harder to get spare parts for. I have a collection of vintage Tamiya F1 cars, but would never use them for that reason.

J

[87lc2 2837]

19 minutes ago, junkmunki said:

The other thing to consider with the older F1 models, is that a lot of the components were metal, as opposed to the later plastic parts. If you go back to the late 70s and early 80s kits, the chassis plate itself was metal.

If you want to go short wheelbase, consider one of the 80s F2 kits from Tamiya. Quite rare, but lots of fun.

One thing to remember though, the older kits are getting a lot harder to get spare parts for. I have a collection of vintage Tamiya F1 cars, but would never use them for that reason.

J

Yea, that's my main concern.  Parts availability is a must so maybe running an older Tamiya F chassis is not the best idea.

[Jonathon Gillham 4690]

Couldn't you get a chassis plate cut out of carbon fibre to give whatever wheelbase you want on your F104? 

[TurnipJF 9905]

One of the great things about the F1 class is that it is highly dependent on driver skill and tyre choice, and only minimally dependent on the rest of the car. So unless you are racing against the cream of the crop in terms of driver skill, you can be competitive with pretty much anything as long as you are using the right tyres.

There seem to be a few misconceptions regarding tyres and their interchangeability between the F103 and F104 chassis. Firstly, you can run F103 wheels and tires on an F104 or any of the TRFs which use a similar front end. All you need to do is to reconfigure the arrangement of springs and spacers to mimic that of the F103. I set up my mate's F104 Pro 2 to use the same Enneti wheels and tires as I use on my F103 when he started complaining that the only reason I was beating him was because of my tires:

 

Fitting F104 wheels and tyres to an F103 is even easier - they just fit with no reconfiguring required. As evidence to support the above, please see this picture of my F103 having just nicked the stock wheels and tires off my F104 Pro 2:

 

The only adjustments you may have to make are those of ride height, as there is a difference between the diameter of F104 and F103 tyres.

Exactly what this difference is varies from brand to brand and also often between foam and rubber tires from the same brand, but I haven't had and difficulty adjusting for it by changing spacers on the kingpins at the front and moving the axle up and down at the rear.

(And of course you need to choose a wheel style that can accommodate the F103 diff spring and thrust bearing if using a standard plastic diff. Most race-style wheels such as the aforementioned Enneti ones do so just fine, and the alloy diff with captive spring and thrust bearing is a direct swap if your car doesn't come with one already.)

[Pylon80 3482]

Thank you @TurnipJF, I admit that if I had known about the compatibility options a few years ago I would have picked an F103 over the F104 as I much prefer the older F1 looks.

And I'm sorry I spread the misconception found on that website before getting my F104!

[87lc2 2837]

Interesting, thank you @TurnipJF  So is the F103 shorter/wider than the F104?  I love the F104 but its so long and skinny, I like the shorter/wider look than many of the older Tamiya F1 chassis seem to have.

And you are correct about the Formula cars.  Mine is setup per the manual and with CRC tires it just flat out works, havent had to change anything other than tightening up the diff and updating the gearing.  Really nice to drive.

[TurnipJF 9905]

29 minutes ago, 87lc2 said:

Interesting, thank you @TurnipJF  So is the F103 shorter/wider than the F104?  I love the F104 but its so long and skinny, I like the shorter/wider look than many of the older Tamiya F1 chassis seem to have.

The F103RS has a wheelbase of 26cm or thereabouts, and the F104 has a wheelbase of 27cm or thereabouts as measured with my wobbly plastic ruler. They are exactly the same width at the rear, but most people run 40mm wide rear tyres on their F103s, and F104 stock rears are closer to 30mm wide, giving it a narrower look. The F104 front is about 10mm narrower than the F103 due to shorter suspension arms, but if you want to widen it, you can run the F103 front end as Tamiya themselves did with the F104W, or you can take the longer spindles used by the Mad Bull, Lunchbox, etc, and use them in place of the stock ones, taking up the space between inner wheel bearing and upright with 5mm i.d. shims. 

[TurnipJF 9905]

7 hours ago, 87lc2 said:

If so which one should I look out for, and most importantly would I even be able to get parts/bodies to actually run it? 

In answer to your original query, I'd go for the F103. It still has loads of spares and bodies available, and is compatible with most hop-ups from more recent releases. It also features a roll damper as standard, unlike the F102 and its predecessors from which it was absent. 

There is a great deal of satisfaction to be had in turning up with a box-stock model from several decades ago and beating the folks with their latest- generation carbon-and-alloy wonders, and the F103 is a car which can do exactly that. 😁

[Pylon80 3482]

1 hour ago, TurnipJF said:

In answer to your original query, I'd go for the F103. It still has loads of spares and bodies available, and is compatible with most hop-ups from more recent releases. It also features a roll damper as standard, unlike the F102 and its predecessors from which it was absent. 

There is a great deal of satisfaction to be had in turning up with a box-stock model from several decades ago and beating the folks with their latest- generation carbon-and-alloy wonders, and the F103 is a car which can do exactly that. 😁

Where would you find one though? Even Buyee does not show much in terms of F103's

[87lc2 2837]

1 hour ago, TurnipJF said:

In answer to your original query, I'd go for the F103. It still has loads of spares and bodies available, and is compatible with most hop-ups from more recent releases. It also features a roll damper as standard, unlike the F102 and its predecessors from which it was absent. 

There is a great deal of satisfaction to be had in turning up with a box-stock model from several decades ago and beating the folks with their latest- generation carbon-and-alloy wonders, and the F103 is a car which can do exactly that. 😁

Thanks, I'll start looking.  I see a good amount on Ebay from time to time and local racers are always selling old stuff.  I've won my first three races with the F104 and it was satisfying for sure.  About half the field are Tamiya but the other half Xray which is popular around here.  Always nice beating high end stuff with Tamiya, I love it.  The car is such a pleasure to drive with the right tires, has tons of grip.

[TurnipJF 9905]

5 hours ago, Pylon80 said:

Where would you find one though? Even Buyee does not show much in terms of F103's

I bought two of mine off EBay and one from a fellow Tamiyaclub member via this here forum.