Every expense spared TT-02 race car

[alvinlwh 7043]

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[Exvee-Ohwan 105]

17 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Get a can opener and crack open the can. There will be a ml or two left in there where you can use a brush for final touchup.

That is a genius idea, but alas I've already chucked in in the bin.  Will remember for next time though.

[Re-Bugged 11297]

I bought a set of those cheap shocks too, they are listed for TT02 but as you say aren’t really. At least they were only a couple of bucks and just chucked in the cart to see.

I feel there’s a bit of a Jason Statham ‘Transporter’ theme going on on the Audi 😉

Looking good 👍🏻 

[ThunderDragonCy 8126]

@Exvee-Ohwan Really enjoying this. Reminds me a lot of the TT01E stock class bulld i did a couple of years ago.

Couple of little low budget suggestions from that build if i may?

Shocks: If you have some spare Tamiya shock sprues, or even the friction shocks, would should be able to replace the eyelets on your aliezpress shocks with something shorter. They look quite long.

Steering links : Again using spare shock eyelets and rod ends i had in the spares box, i made some adjustable steering links using cut m3 threaded rod (about a quid off ebay) and some ball screws for the knuckles and steering arms to mount them to. I had spares, but brass ones are only about a fiver new if you don't so still keeps the budget idea. No need for expensive turnbuckles as you will likely only set them once when you fit them. Everyone at my club did a similar thing on the TT01 so you could dial in a bit of toe out.

[skom25 1876]

As I wrote, I suggest ball connectors to mount shocks.

BTW. CVA shocks with TRF pistons are nice and cheap. I do not see reason to use this Chinese cheap stuff.

[Exvee-Ohwan 105]

12 hours ago, Re-Bugged said:

I bought a set of those cheap shocks too, they are listed for TT02 but as you say aren’t really. At least they were only a couple of bucks and just chucked in the cart to see.

Yep, I've no doubt they list the same shocks for other cars as well, they just tack on the model designation to the description and hope it fits!  I cracked them open last night to top up the oil, here is what is inside from the factory (basically nothing), I suspect they do this to minimise the chance of leakage.

The shock piston has no holes so just relies on fluid flow around the sides to act as damping.  I tried to get a good bleed on them but try as I might air keeps getting in, but they are better now they at least have oil in them.  Despite their flaws, they are still leagues better than the friction dampers from the kit.

1 hour ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

@Exvee-Ohwan Really enjoying this. Reminds me a lot of the TT01E stock class bulld i did a couple of years ago.

Couple of little low budget suggestions from that build if i may?

Shocks: If you have some spare Tamiya shock sprues, or even the friction shocks, would should be able to replace the eyelets on your aliezpress shocks with something shorter. They look quite long.

Steering links : Again using spare shock eyelets and rod ends i had in the spares box, i made some adjustable steering links using cut m3 threaded rod (about a quid off ebay) and some ball screws for the knuckles and steering arms to mount them to. I had spares, but brass ones are only about a fiver new if you don't so still keeps the budget idea. No need for expensive turnbuckles as you will likely only set them once when you fit them. Everyone at my club did a similar thing on the TT01 so you could dial in a bit of toe out.

Good tip, thanks!  I hadn't thought of that but it seems obvious now you mention it.  I'm going to have a dig through my spares as they really could do with a few mm off their length.  Like the idea of the DIY links too, definitely fits with this build.

38 minutes ago, skom25 said:

As I wrote, I suggest ball connectors to mount shocks.

BTW. CVA shocks with TRF pistons are nice and cheap. I do not see reason to use this Chinese cheap stuff.

These shocks come with captive balls in the shock eyelets, but yes it's a good idea so I'm going to pick up a pack of ball connectors anyway as it will make future upgrades easier.

Hmm, depends - CVAs are about £20 over here which, at well over 20% of the car's base cost is not fitting in with my ill-defined and largely arbitrary budget. 

I am deliberately (and artificially) constraining my spend on this car just for the fun of seeing what I can do with as little as possible.  I really enjoy tinkering with the cheap obscure off-brand parts just to see what I can make work.  China RC parts can be a bit of a lottery, but the SPT4412 servos (about £8) and Ysido brushed ESCs (about £6) have been brilliant and cost peanuts.  

My upcoming TT-02SR build is going to get dragged through the Tamiya hop-up catalog and probably go together in the space of an evening or two without much drama.  Will be a great car, but I probably won't get as much fun out of building it as I have from this little underdog.

 

[skom25 1876]

Have you experienced issue, that rear is lower than front?

[Exvee-Ohwan 105]

5 minutes ago, skom25 said:

Have you experienced issue, that rear is lower than front?

Nope, front and rear are level, however it is riding high (for a touring car anyway) at the moment due to the shock length and spring stiffness. 

[alvinlwh 7043]

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[Exvee-Ohwan 105]

14 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

I find that these no brand shocks' shafts are too long and will hit the bladder at full compression. Other than that, the poor quality as you found out.

I have good experience with these, metal shocks for CVA prices.

https://www.asiatees.com/display?Tamiya-TT-01-Parts-Hop-Ups-Upgrades&brand=Team Raffee Co.&model=TT-01&id=171934&pid=1

With the current springs that are fitted I don't think these will be hitting full compression unless I drive my 1:1 car over them.

I've never used Asiatees before but have heard about them.  Cheers for the tip, I'll have a browse.

[Exvee-Ohwan 105]

Minor update.  Picked up some Super Mini CVAs as the AliExpress shocks were comically bad after a quick carpark session.  Also needed to bulk out another order for free shipping so picked up some cheap universals and spare wheelnuts.

First track outing tomorrow so will see how it fairs against my son's Type-S.

 

[Exvee-Ohwan 105]

Wow - been a while since I updated this thread.  A busy work month has meant I've not had the mental capacity to translate anything into meaningful into a post.

Since my last post the budget TT-02 has had a total of one race outing.  Yep, one solitary day comprised of 4 x 5 min heats, which was its first time ever on track.  A combination of other commitments or the track being fully booked has meant I've not been able to get back since, though I'm booked in for tomorrow. 

For its first time on track it did okay, no breakages and was consistent yet very tail happy, to the extent that one of the race directors said 'you need to tame that back end mate' post race.  On power its pretty composed, it tracks nicely and doesn't wander down the back straight at speed (not sure if the reversed arms caster-mod is helping there) but the lift-off oversteer is at early 90s hot-hatch levels.  A lot of fun but not the best for lap times.

On the subject of lap times, I checked some of my previous race times when I've been borrowing my son's Type-S and there is only a marginal difference between that and my TT02.  Some of that will be down to my lack of experience and track layout I expect.  Anecdotally I'll say the Type-S feels more planted and has a more progressive transition between the extremes of it's handling.

 

After that first race I set about tweaking my setup to tame the extremes of its handling.  I splashed out on some harder springs for the front, some shims and a tie-rod upgrade for the steering.  The springs really weren't my first choice, but they were very cheap.  

As well as shimming the arms I also added some onto the shafts to get rid of the huge side to side play on each wheel.  In retrospect I wonder if I should have added them from the other side (pushing the shaft onto the dogbone rather than pulling it out to the wheel if that makes sense):

The lack of track time hasn't resulted in a lack of driving time however.  Whenever I can I get out during a lunch break to do some laps at a local park, so I've put a good dozen or so packs through it by now I think.  Concrete blocks and steel railings make for unforgiving crashes, but despite that the only breakage has been a stripped thread on one of the front uprights.  I'm not reckless with this car, but equally it gets driven pretty hard and I'm impressed by how much it soaks up. 

Needs a bit of a clean and the diffs are a bit noisy so will be stripping it down today for a clean-up and inspection.

 

[skom25 1876]

38 minutes ago, Exvee-Ohwan said:

Wow - been a while since I updated this thread.  A busy work month has meant I've not had the mental capacity to translate anything into meaningful into a post.

Since my last post the budget TT-02 has had a total of one race outing.  Yep, one solitary day comprised of 4 x 5 min heats, which was its first time ever on track.  A combination of other commitments or the track being fully booked has meant I've not been able to get back since, though I'm booked in for tomorrow. 

For its first time on track it did okay, no breakages and was consistent yet very tail happy, to the extent that one of the race directors said 'you need to tame that back end mate' post race.  On power its pretty composed, it tracks nicely and doesn't wander down the back straight at speed (not sure if the reversed arms caster-mod is helping there) but the lift-off oversteer is at early 90s hot-hatch levels.  A lot of fun but not the best for lap times.

On the subject of lap times, I checked some of my previous race times when I've been borrowing my son's Type-S and there is only a marginal difference between that and my TT02.  Some of that will be down to my lack of experience and track layout I expect.  Anecdotally I'll say the Type-S feels more planted and has a more progressive transition between the extremes of it's handling.

 

After that first race I set about tweaking my setup to tame the extremes of its handling.  I splashed out on some harder springs for the front, some shims and a tie-rod upgrade for the steering.  The springs really weren't my first choice, but they were very cheap.  

As well as shimming the arms I also added some onto the shafts to get rid of the huge side to side play on each wheel.  In retrospect I wonder if I should have added them from the other side (pushing the shaft onto the dogbone rather than pulling it out to the wheel if that makes sense):

The lack of track time hasn't resulted in a lack of driving time however.  Whenever I can I get out during a lunch break to do some laps at a local park, so I've put a good dozen or so packs through it by now I think.  Concrete blocks and steel railings make for unforgiving crashes, but despite that the only breakage has been a stripped thread on one of the front uprights.  I'm not reckless with this car, but equally it gets driven pretty hard and I'm impressed by how much it soaks up. 

Needs a bit of a clean and the diffs are a bit noisy so will be stripping it down today for a clean-up and inspection.

 

I have feeling that you added too many shims to hubs.

You need to add shims, tighten wheel and check if there is still just a tiny bit of play. There has to be some play, because you will add a lot of drag and kill bearings instantly.

[Exvee-Ohwan 105]

1 hour ago, skom25 said:

There has to be some play, because you will add a lot of drag and kill bearings instantly.

There is still some play once the wheels are on.  Everything feels smooth when spun by hand so I don't think there is any binding.

[skom25 1876]

Good to know!

I did that mistake with DT-03. 

[JimBear 859]

On 2/15/2024 at 8:04 PM, Pylon80 said:

For the steering bridge to steering arms I use bronze bushings and a machine screw and there, the tolerance is good with no perceptible play.

Digging this thread up again, have been re-reading it a few times now, since there is a new TT-02 on the bench. I assume you mean bronze bushings as in leftover Tamiya parts, or ... ? It's not my car, so I am going to keep it minimal - doing shims for the steering, the lowfriction suspension balls and some other dampers - almost anything would be better than the originals ...

[Pylon80 3421]

58 minutes ago, JimBear said:

Digging this thread up again, have been re-reading it a few times now, since there is a new TT-02 on the bench. I assume you mean bronze bushings as in leftover Tamiya parts, or ... ? It's not my car, so I am going to keep it minimal - doing shims for the steering, the lowfriction suspension balls and some other dampers - almost anything would be better than the originals ...

I think they are bronze hat bushings like the ones used on the knuckles and suspension shafts (passing through the lower arms) of a lot of touring cars and most recently the TT-02 Type S's. There's probably a cryptic 8 digit part number in the manuals. I had found a bag on eBay but I would imagine Tamiya USA or Tony have them.

[JimBear 859]

15 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:

I think they are bronze hat bushings like the ones used on the knuckles and suspension shafts (passing through the lower arms) of a lot of touring cars and most recently the TT-02 Type S's.

Something like this, then? If that's the case, I'll raid the spares box ...

[Pylon80 3421]

2 hours ago, JimBear said:

Something like this, then? If that's the case, I'll raid the spares box ...

Yes ! The long one. To be extra certain I can measure it for you tonight. This is what I also used at some point on the front upper arms of the M-05, see my build thread Since then I have switched to titanium step screws on the M-05 but that's just a luxury 😅 as the bronze bushings were just fine. The TT-02 Rally is still using the bronze bushings on the steering bridge and going strong.

[JimBear 859]

Aah, great, @Pylon80 - then I know what to look for. I nabbed the picture out of the TT-02s manual.