[debate] Monster Beetle or Squash Van for my 2nd build?

[im888 8]

Hi all, I'm relatively new to rc kit building, my first was just last summer (Lunchbox) and had lots of fun with it.

For my 2nd kit, I was originally leaning toward a Monster Beetle until I read about all the problems with its gear box. But I also read that the MIP super ball differential set might alleviate these issues, though it sounds like it still could have problems. And believe me, I'm not technically capable enough to handle constant repairs and modifications.

After the Squash Van release this past winter, I thought I had found my new 2nd kit. But surprisingly, there hasn't been enough discussions about SV to convince me it's a good kit (it doesn't seem to be very popular), and it also sounds like it has tipping-over problems. All those gears also concern me.

I should note here that I use my Lunch Box mostly out in the wilds (beach, dirt trails) so I'd like my 2nd rig to also be able to handle rugged and dirty terrain.

So I'd like to put it to a community debate: MB or SV for a newbie's second build? Pros vs. cons for each?

[Saito2 8309]

Its a shame Tamiya hasn't truly fixed the issues with the Monster Beetle because its great fun once sorted and a step up from the Lunch Box. I guess you kind of have to be open to a little tinkering when buying the Monster Beetle because they tend to have issues when built box-stock. The diff issue can be sorted with the MIP diff or by using a much cheaper ORV diff brace of some sort that members here have made and put on 3D printing websites. The other issue with the Monster Beetle (unless Tamiya have corrected it) was the universal shafts were "clocked" 90 degrees off, which could lead to vibration issues in the drivetrain. The following Blackfoot rerelease corrected this. Using the dogbone setup from the Frog would be another solution. The Monster Beetle is a platform you have to mess about with to get dialed in, reliability-wise. That's fine for me, but not necessarily right for this day and age. 

The Squash Van is a more modern model and lacks all these "bugs" Tamiya left in the Monster Beetle. The SV is a stretched GF01 in a sense and those are pretty popular. You probably won't run into the old design flaws like the the Monster Beetle. The high mounted battery and relatively hard Blackfoot tires probably do equal a more tipsy model. I would guess if the SV was equipped with the shorter, wider and softer Lunch Box tires, some of this tippy-ness would subside. Adding oil shocks would hurt either. Just be prepared to buy lots of bearings.

For me, it would be Monster Beetle all day long. Its a much more engaging vehicle to run, but I'm also stuck in the past. It is not 100% newcomer friendly if issues crop up though. If you're will to work with it (and there's plenty of help here on Tamiyaclub for guidance) it could serve you well.

On the other hand, for less hassle in the build process, the Squash Van is pretty nailed down. From what I've seen, it just needs some help in the handling department possibly. 

[Twinfan 2314]

Wise words from Saito2 

I've recently built a Monster Beetle and I got round the two main issues by buying the universal joints from a Blackfoot kit (the Monster Beetle versions are still wrong and 90 degrees out causing vibrations) plus some carbon fibre gearbox plates off eBay (to stop the flex of the stock aluminium ones which causes gears to skip). I'm hoping this will make it a reliable runner although it all adds to the cost of the kit. Less than the MIP diff though!

I've also built a GF-01 Heavy Dump Truck so can get an idea of what the Squash Van would be like. The Dump Truck is great and like a posh Lunch Box. Don't forget the Squash Van will need painting, you can get away with not doing the Beetle if it's a runner as the body is red plastic.

I think if you're after something really different to build and run then the Monster Beetle is the one to go for. The ORV chassis is a bit marmite and something I guess everyone has to try at some point. If you want a modern Lunch Box 'Plus' then it's the Squash Van all day long.

[JimBear 1302]

I guess I would heed @Saito2. I am slso stuck in the past - my first RC was a Monster Beetle. It has a hardbody (ABS, I think) which I like for the details and the look, but the Squash body is lexan which probably holds up better for crashes. This far, it seems that the Squash may be a better bet, but nobody really knows if any weaknesses will show up down the road.

Lately, I've been looking at the GF-01TR Monster Beetle Trail - but that's going in a slightly different direction than the Dump Truck that @Twinfan recommended. Probably got its own pecularities, but as I mentioned, I like the Beetle form.

[gogsyfinnie 713]

Id vote for the Beetle, I learned a lot from the ORV build for my blackfoot and the "challenges" of the older model make for a lot of interest along the way.  Given all the issues are well documented on here, and in many cases the solutions are not overly expensive, I found it good fun making the recommended mods (and regretting those I didnt - like a centre servo mount!).  Incidently I went for the cheap shim solution on the gearbox, I'll upgrade to the ball diff down the road if it proves to be problematic but I am happy so far and been out bashing frequently.  I too started with two CW-01 builds with my kids and the ORV was a nice step up in terms of complexity while still being not particularly difficult.

Also as a lot of folk have said, the Monster Beetle is the nostalgic choice as its the one that I looked at in the christmas catalogue every year and never got. Also until I recently starting building and running myself it was the only Tamiya RC I'd ever driven via a mate when I was a kid!

All that said I'd quite like a squash van at some point, especially if a Grave Digger tribute of sorts was possible!

[aphex4000 6]

On 2/14/2024 at 5:51 PM, Twinfan said:

Wise words from Saito2 

I've recently built a Monster Beetle and I got round the two main issues by buying the universal joints from a Blackfoot kit (the Monster Beetle versions are still wrong and 90 degrees out causing vibrations) plus some carbon fibre gearbox plates off eBay (to stop the flex of the stock aluminium ones which causes gears to skip). I'm hoping this will make it a reliable runner although it all adds to the cost of the kit. Less than the MIP diff though!

I've also built a GF-01 Heavy Dump Truck so can get an idea of what the Squash Van would be like. The Dump Truck is great and like a posh Lunch Box. Don't forget the Squash Van will need painting, you can get away with not doing the Beetle if it's a runner as the body is red plastic.

I think if you're after something really different to build and run then the Monster Beetle is the one to go for. The ORV chassis is a bit marmite and something I guess everyone has to try at some point. If you want a modern Lunch Box 'Plus' then it's the Squash Van all day long.

I've never heard of this universal joint issue with the Monster Beetle, and thought the driveline parts for the Monster Beetle and Blackfoot were the same. I definitely notice some chatter/vibration at the bottom of the suspension travel since the one end of the driveshaft has a CV joint (referring to the 2015 re-re) while the other is a universal joint. Will switching to the Blackfoot driveshaft address this issue? I would love to get rid of all that chatter and vibration!

[Twinfan 2314]

11 minutes ago, aphex4000 said:

I've never heard of this universal joint issue with the Monster Beetle, and thought the driveline parts for the Monster Beetle and Blackfoot were the same. I definitely notice some chatter/vibration at the bottom of the suspension travel since the one end of the driveshaft has a CV joint (referring to the 2015 re-re) while the other is a universal joint. Will switching to the Blackfoot driveshaft address this issue? I would love to get rid of all that chatter and vibration!

Info in this thread  

 

[aphex4000 6]

Thank you, Twinfan!!

[Twinfan 2314]

No worries!

[Sogogi 3362]

I would also vote for beetles.
GF-02 looks cool, but there is no charm to it. 

[JimBear 1302]

14 hours ago, Twinfan said:

Info in this thread  

 

Digging into this one again ... the 53908 kit (Universal shafts assembly parts for the Frog, Beetle, Blackfoot, Brat etc) seems to be set up in the wrong way too, at least looking at the product photos. In that case, it would be a pretty expensive mistake to buy one of these.

EDIT: I see that this has been extensively discussed in the thread above - sorry!

[Rufusg 5]

Not sure if this was already mentioned but it appears based on user manuals from Tamiyas website that the BLACK edition Monster beetle universal shaft setup is identical to the Blackfoot. The Monster Beetle regular edition still has the older setup. 
 

interesting. 

[Dakratfink 1026]

I keep finding low ish cost ORVs on eBay, but when I think about foxing the transmission and sourcing a body I wonder hiwncheap it will really be. 

[aphex4000 6]

Yeah, it can all add up pretty quick and at the end of the day it will still perform like a vintage kit. This guy on IG is trying to modernize the chassis and is dealing with the annoying drive shaft chatter as well.

I actually prefer driving my G6-01 over the ORV, but the Monster Beetle will always have a nostalgic place in my heart!

 

[ADRay1000 712]

can’t speak to the SV, but the MB is a pretty delicate and quirky as rc cars go. 

[markbt73 6128]

For carefree running, the Squash Van is the way to go. I don't have one, or any of the 4WD variations on that basic theme, but I have the 6WD King Yellow and I've had several 2WD versions over the years. All absolutely bulletproof mechanically, more stable than you'd imagine, and a delight to run. The all-gear drive in the King Yellow is silky-smooth and free-running (with full bearings) so I would expect no less from the SV.

That said, I'm also no stranger to the ORV monsters, having owned quite a few of those over the years. I greatly prefer it to the Frog/Brat form of the ORV, because the front end is actually less sloppy. As far as the diff and axles go, yes, it is an issue, but there are solutions available. Personally, I like the through-bolt method for fixing the diff, but it does require some mechanical know-how and parts modification to pull it off. Braces or stiffer side plates for the gearbox are a simpler option, and more cost-effective than the MIP diff.

One other thing to consider is your driving style. Either one of these is going to tend to roll over if you turn hard. The Squash Van's lexan body is far better able to shrug off such abuse; the Monster Beetle's hard plastic body can get cracked or scratched or parts broken off easily. The sound of a freshly-painted Tamiya hard body grinding against a paved surface after it rolls over is a terrible sound to hear.

TL;DR - You can't go wrong with either one, but the Squash Van is the better choice for more worry-free fun.

[Juggular 5187]

On 2/14/2024 at 4:50 PM, Saito2 said:

the universal shafts were "clocked" 90 degrees off, which could lead to vibration issues in the drivetrain. The following Blackfoot rerelease corrected this.

I read that far, and looked up the instruction manuals. 

After that, and I saw how other members already posted comparison images.  

Oh well... for posterity, I'll just leave it here.  

 

If future readers are interested in phasing, here is a thread.  

 

As for Squash Van, the transmission should be bulletproof.  The gears are solid from the Wild Willy 2 and Wild Dagger days (1999?). 

The driving characteristics?  It drives somewhat like Wild Dagger, which I don't like as much as Wild Willy2 or Konghead.  The battery up on high would make them a bit tipsy.  

 

 

Those friction shocks look to be about 52 -55mm in length.  I wish they made them longer like Monster Beetle and Blackfoot.  There might be aftermarket shock towers. If A-arms are not long, you could get away with using oil shocks.  (Wild Dagger's arms are long.)

Like other members, I'm also partial to ORV (Blackfoot to be specific).  I had so much fun with the vintage one I got in the year 2000.  I didn't have much trouble with old hexagonal stuff. They weren't even dog bones.  I also have the 2015 version with nail head shock pistons. (I decided to file some to make the shocks softer).  

 

I'm not so keen on the MB shell, so I'd go with SV.  My hobby is fixing minor issues. So I'd get it just see what I can fix/improve.    

As far as the driving goes, I prefer ORV over Wild Dagger (or Squash, probably).  ORV is ancient. It has issues. But still good.  You can NOT put a 4000kv brushless without some sturdy modifications. But I don't put anything hotter than a Sport Tuned. (None of mine has any significant mods, other than shims. Fortunately no issues.)

If you want a trouble-free but bouncy ride, SV. Especially if you want a strong motor.  For more dynamic driving, ORV, but prepare for some minor headaches.  

 

[Dakratfink 1026]

It sounds like the “weak” trans (on ORV chassis ) is really only an issue if you overpower it though ? Or is bracing it a must ? 
The SV in that RC Driver vid was all over the place. I have oil dampers on my G6 King yellow on the corners only and pogo friction shocks on the center axle. It’s a little bouncy but planted and goes where I point it. 
Also, my Kumamon tractor on the WW2 chassis seems to handle fine on friction shocks.  I guess the SV chassis needs oil dampers to settle down.

Side note , I think the SV would benefit from GF01/G601 wheels and balloon chevron tires. I also think it would look good with box art decals but patina paint 
 

[im888 8]

Just wanted to say a quick thanks to everyone here for their comments and advice. It really has been helpful; you guys rule!

I decided that I'm not mechanically ready yet to take on the Monster Beetle, as much as I really would like to build it. I think the Squash Van is a more appropriately simple 2nd RC kit for me while I continue to learn the craft.

Also, I'm going to probably wait a while longer to buy a Squash in the hopes that more build videos and more hop-up parts become available for it that will allow me to tackle its known issues.

Thanks again, and if anyone else has advice about either kit, I'm all ears!

[Heavy Duty TLT 32]

Squash Van chassis...  Monster Beetle Body!!!    

[Frog Jumper 4254]

2 hours ago, Heavy Duty TLT said:

Squash Van chassis...  Monster Beetle Body!!!    

[OldSchoolRC1 1127]

I built my Squash in about 2 hours. Very easy kit, it's pretty much all gears! Definitely buy bearings before the build, it's a lot of work to get back in there. 

 

[Dakratfink 1026]

9 hours ago, OldSchoolRC1 said:

I built my Squash in about 2 hours. Very easy kit, it's pretty much all gears! Definitely buy bearings before the build, it's a lot of work to get back in there. 

 

When I built my GS06 I made sure my bearings arrived before I started that kit. No way I was going to year that apart more than I had to 

[RC4x4 180]

I like both but the Squash Van is a very well built chassis. It would take more of a roll over than the Beetle. I would do a Squash Van if I had to choose.

 

Cory

[VroomVroomRC 64]

Which one to get? The answer is, "yes."

Recently discovered this video and immediately reminded me of this thread!