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Misterp180

CC-01 Dakar Rally advice and ideas

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Hello fellow Tamiya Club members,

I have been working on an idea for the last few months and I am struggling for ways of making it work. I am reaching out to you guys for some ideas and perhaps someone out there has done this already and can provide some expert advice.

My YouTube buddy Mark Bryan is getting some of us together this summer for some rally action. While I have a XV01 to take to the rally party I would really like to turn up with something different.

I have a CC01 crawler which I have not really been getting much use out of. I would like to turn it into a rally chassis. I have seen some examples of Dakar style bodies so any recommendations on where I could source something like that from would be great.

But the real challenge is what to do to the chassis in order to make it rally worthy. I am worried that the chassis will roll easily so I assume I will need to play about with the suspension set up a little. Any ideas on what to do with this? I have some springs to add to the model to alter the suspension set up. What about weight distribution? Would you put some extra weight into the model somewhere?

One of the diffs is locked but do I need to lock both diffs for rally or would I be better off with them unlocked? 

Power wise I have a 15.5T Tamiya brushless motor to use in the model. Should provide plenty of punch and great battery life. Do you think the gearbox will hold up? Will I overpower the chassis?

I am debating tyres and wheels. I have some options which I will detail in later posts. But does anyone have any recommendations? Has anyone done this before?

Loads of questions and I guess the proof will be in the trying won’t it!! I am starting to play around with the chassis next month so any suggestions would be great and I will log my progress on this thread and on my YouTube channel.

Thanks in advance for any feedback on my project.

Craig

The OAG RC

https://youtube.com/@theoagrc?si=SjFJKZE8Eeb1gHZW

 

 

 

 

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Tamiya themselves of course made a couple of Dakar style bodies for the CC01 in the form of:

-57701/58602 Mitsubishi Pajero Rally

-58324 Volkswagen Race Touareg

I think you're addressing many of the common issues but as a 4x CC-01 owner I think your biggest issue to overcome will be the steering. The thru-chassis steering post and connecting mess which is the stock mechanism is wholly unsuitable and prone to both slop, limited angle and doing the weird "chassis wiggle" in reverse. Aftermarket options help, but they're not without their limitations...

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@ChrisRx718 thanks for the advice on the body pal. I will get on the hunt for those but I worry they might be tricky.

I will start looking at the steering set up and see what after market parts I can find.

My issue is going to be making something broadly competitive against the dedicated rally chassis the boys will have in the summer. I always think it is fun to bring something different to the table 🙌🏻

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Agreed on the steering part. After market one was slightly better but that is the reason i sold cc-01 (other wise i like everything else about cc-01).

 

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4 hours ago, Misterp180 said:

I have seen some examples of Dakar style bodies so any recommendations on where I could source something like that from would be great.

The Bowler Wildcat shell from Kamtec is robust, roomy and easy to get.

 

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@Sogogi I am going to have to have a few runs to see how much of a problem this is going to be for me. Will be a shame if that is the show stopper

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@TurnipJF I was looking at that this evening. Good to know it can work. It looked like it might be too big when I was researching earlier 👍🏻

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7 hours ago, Misterp180 said:

@Sogogi I am going to have to have a few runs to see how much of a problem this is going to be for me. Will be a shame if that is the show stopper

Maybe I should say… after selling cc-01, i tried trx4 and cc-02. I am seriously considering getting cc-01 again…

trx4 is super capable, but that is it. No charm to it… cc-02 is…. Meh. I like front independent suspension which is good for all rounder (i dont like just slow crawling.. enjoy some light speed rallying).


Surprisingly, cc-01 doesnt really need hopups.. 

hmm!

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16 hours ago, ChrisRx718 said:

Tamiya themselves of course made a couple of Dakar style bodies for the CC01 in the form of:

-57701/58602 Mitsubishi Pajero Rally

-58324 Volkswagen Race Touareg

I think you're addressing many of the common issues but as a 4x CC-01 owner I think your biggest issue to overcome will be the steering. The thru-chassis steering post and connecting mess which is the stock mechanism is wholly unsuitable and prone to both slop, limited angle and doing the weird "chassis wiggle" in reverse. Aftermarket options help, but they're not without their limitations...

I've been looking to get the Parjero Rally body for a while, but couldn't find it anywhere. The Decals are still available from TTP models however.

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20 minutes ago, Misterp180 said:

@TamiyaD Exactly what I am looking to do…. Anyone know how they did it??  If mine looks and handles like that I will be chuffed!

You can ask the guy about his setup. I believe he will eager to share his set up with you.

Toyota Hilux is also a great body shell and part of my" to do list" for my cc01. 

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On 2/18/2024 at 11:45 AM, Misterp180 said:

One of the diffs is locked but do I need to lock both diffs for rally or would I be better off with them unlocked? 

Power wise I have a 15.5T Tamiya brushless motor to use in the model. Should provide plenty of punch and great battery life. Do you think the gearbox will hold up? Will I overpower the chassis?

I don't lock them unless it's crawler.  

What you put in depends on the weight of the chassis.  Onroad cars, I just use AW grease.  Heavy chassis like Konghead, diff clay.  If mine wasn't already locked, I'd use diff clay, if tires are big like these.  Clay works like locked for the most part, yet it still allow decent steering on the pavement.  

lypXHIc.jpg

For a rally CC-01, I'm afraid clay might be too stiff.  Crawlers don't make best rally cars after all.  

Since there is a less chance that you'd claw up with 70% of the weight on one tire, I'd use sticky grease.  

PwK7zxx.jpg

VxffaTX.jpg

This is something between AW and clay.  For rocky ground, mud, snow, gravel, grass, as well as loose dirt and pavement, this would make CC-01 doggedly proceed.  

Unfortunately, Bad Horsie is out of stock.  You could use 3racing diff grease instead.  If not, just AW.  For loose dirt, AW would be just fine.   

https://www.rcmart.com/3racing-ultra-high-viscosity-gear-diff-oil-20g-3rac-gs03-00059277

15.5t should also be fine.  At 7.4v, it might be slower than Sport Tuned, at least on the bench.  But Sport Tuned would lose more RPM when there is a load, since brushed motors have less torque.  I would think 13.5t would also be fine, if you are so inclined.  

I assume you took care of spacer issues with the axle? (since you said your CC-01 doesn't get much use).  Without spacers, the gears will skip and grind.  It's a known issue since the 90s, but I didn't know when I got it. (note how the gears have some wear on them.)  I used some washers and 850 copper bushings.  I think I'll replace one of the 850s with a 1150, next time I open this up.   

VylHpm9.jpg

 

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@Juggular this was a great post pal! I am going to open up the diffs and pack them with AW grease.

I was not aware of the spacer mod so will have a good look at that also.

Good to know my brushless motor will give enough punch to have some rally fun.

Thanks for all your advice pal 🙌🏻

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On YT are some very good tutorials how to shim the rear axle. They show you all the locations for a shim. It helped me and axle is still going strong after many years .

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@Misterp180 I also recommend the diff spacer fix. The CC-01 really has a design flaw and the spacer solves the issue.

I've been running my CC-01 "rally raid" for some time now and it runs great. It's a bit slower than a TT rally car but can take rougher terrain nicely. On high-grip surfaces it will grip-roll though so it's mostly for gavel & dirt.

IsuzuMu-Castrol-03.JPG

IsuzuMu-Castrol-05.JPG

Build details:

  • Motor: stock silver can
  • Pinion: 16T
  • Tires: LandFreeder kit tires (part 19805543 CR-V tires)
  • Wheels: Tamiya 2-piece 5-spoke wheels (54554), exterior ring painted black
  • Top speed: about 16 kph
  • Servo: JX-DC6015
  • ESC: Tamiya TBLE-02S
  • Hop-ups:
    • GPM aluminium steering assembly (junk, didn't work out of the box, had to trim some brass bushings to make it work)
    • High-torque servo saver
    • Rubber-sealed ball bearings
    • Encapsulated electronics
  • Mods:
    • Front shocks protectors
    • Rear diff. internal spacer
    • Custom front aluminium skid plate

I would also recommend protecting the front shocks lower mount. This was done on my CC-01 but I don't have a picture. Linking from a TT-02 instead, which is the same. The shock is mounted with a ball-collar and a steel washer is placed between the shock end and the screw:

FordEscort_13.JPG

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I wish you luck! I tried to rally my CC01 years ago and it was a challenge - a fun challenge, but a challenge nonetheless. I ran a 3300kv motor in a low ride kit and with the stock out of the box settings it basically traction rolled at any speed above 1/2 throttle on any surface except loose gravel. The steering is very touchy at speed also, even with an HR steering kit. Some expo tuning on the radio helped a lot.

That solid rear axle and front heavy nose makes for some .... interesting handling. I got it settled somewhat with stiff front springs, some thick silicone in the front diff and a very, very soft rear axle setup.  I had the torque splitter in, but didn't like the rear braking only, so I took it back out. It hunkers down now in the back under acceleration and has more of a push at speed ilo digging in and rolling.  It's a pretty cool setup once sorted out. 

Agree on the "diff spacer" - it you plan to put any power through that rear axle and the cast gears, it's cheap and easy insurance. 

I sadly wrecked the low ride body on the first battery pack (ouch) but the chassis lives on with a newer Toyota body and some touring car wheels. It now has a silver can with a 20t pinion and it's pretty zippy, but not nearly as fast. Handles pretty decent now for what it is. Forgive the dust, it's been a while since I touched it. I got the body mounted, but awaiting some paint. 

20230501-112422-SM.jpg

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@OoALEJOoO great post fella! Thanks for the advice and notes on your build.

It looks great and is exactly what I am hoping to achieve. Good to know you had fun with the silver can so I am hoping a little more punch from the brushless system will make it cover some ground quickly!

Ultimately I just want to beat Mark and his XV01 😂

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@OldSchoolRC1 thanks for the great post pal.

Now were you rallying with the low ride kit?? I have been considering if this would help keep the chassis a little lower and improve the handling a little??

Worrying to hear that you had to back it down to a silver can as I am going to struggle to keep up with the big boys and their faster motors! 
Sounds like I will have some suspension tuning to do!

Thanks for the inspiration dude 🙌🏻

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23 hours ago, Misterp180 said:

@OldSchoolRC1 thanks for the great post pal.

Now were you rallying with the low ride kit?? I have been considering if this would help keep the chassis a little lower and improve the handling a little??

Worrying to hear that you had to back it down to a silver can as I am going to struggle to keep up with the big boys and their faster motors! 
Sounds like I will have some suspension tuning to do!

Thanks for the inspiration dude 🙌🏻

Yes, nothing official, but running on tarmac and loose gravel. I was indeed running with the low ride specs which is basically shorter springs and some spacers in the shocks. I don't remember exactly how the shocks are set up spacer-wise, but I set the ride height to about the same as my XV01. Definitely helped with stability. 

I never ran the hotter motor with the current suspension, it might be better now. I was initially running HPI WR8 rally tires which were super grippy. Switching over the much harder Tamiya tires helped the traction roll a lot.  I'm sure the proper setup is there somewhere, I just stopped messing with it.  You've got me inspired though, maybe I'll paint it up and get back to it. It was a fun drive. 

I'd say go for it, and be sure to post up a thread! 

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This is a project i’ve been meaning to take on for awhile now, one thing to note is that the cc01 chassis as a layout, isnt really compatible with a “Dakar Rally Raid” vehicle, that is if that kind of thing bothers you (it bothers me! lMAO lol!), it’s layout is more inline with a us style rally raid truck. It’s worth noting both the VW and Pajero body’s tamiya offered, in the real life cars they have IRS not live axle suspension. Tamiyas Mitsubishi Racing Lancer on the DF01 chassis is probably the best scale replication of a dakar vehicle from tamiya. I wish they would make a lengthened and widened version of the xv02 with a dakar style body on it.
 

i have a Traxxas UDR as well as a vaterra twin hammers, both using solid rear axles, both come with locked rear diffs which from a scale perspective is fair but in reality the locked rear diff just makes the traction rolling 100% worse. Both vehicles ended up with rear diffs, and i added sway bars to the twin hammers so it could handle moderate amounts of speed and traction in a corner. 
 

from a perspective of limiting the rolling i would run the rear diff as loose as possible, you can firm up the front diff with some AW grease but i’d using something very very light outback if your favouring unrealistic high speed turns over scale 4wding. 
 

in my head my design was going to and probably will include sway bars, had not figured the details yet but i don’t think it’ll be too hard to sort out, i have got a few ideas. I am keen to run as long a travel as possible with soft suspension so thats why i will head down the fitting swap bars route.

 You also won’t be able to use high grip tyres, as mentioned above the tamiya tyres already have just about the right combination of slip to limit the traction rolling issue.

Funnily enough my traxxas udr came with tyres of similar compound to the cc01 stock rubber, so i ordered some proline tyres for it thinking i would get nice soft tyres but again they where just as hard as the stock units, having spent a bit of time with the car i understand now why it must be so.

Solid axle rear suspension layouts utterly suck on rc cars that travel well beyond scale speeds, especially if you want to run a reasonable amount of off road length suspension and any kind of soft high traction tyres.

Don’t let that put you off the project, 99% of the fun is the tinkering to make it work and the satisfaction gained from your ideas put into practice.

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I run two Dakar style Tamiyas, one is a TT02, it has been rally prepped with higher ground clearance  (as high as it would go) this plus the T version front bumper/guard, big cc01 tires and an Asterion pickup style body with Repsol style decal makes for a fun easy basher, that i use exclusively on gravel/dirt.

The other is a XV01T with a Mitsubishi Pajero EVO (2003-2004) body by Kyosho, very fun to drive too, much better than the TT02, more capable and better handling, with long damper mods and it just performs like a dream.

They are both just rally cars with big wheels, so they are not very capable on rougher terrain, but for rally raiding they have enough speed, steering and ground clearance in my opinion. It will depend a lot on what terrain you plan to use it and what your "stages" will look like, if more rally or more technical and how rough the ground is.

I havent used a fast CC01 (only more crawler oriented) so I cant comment on handling compared to my cars.

 

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