3d printing rookie trials and tribulations - Prusa MK3S+

[BuggyDad 5956]

[Title edited as things have moved on] 

It's just come up that a friend of a friend is selling their 3d printer. It's a Prusa Mk3 and they're selling because they're upgrading to a Mk4. Looks like I'd pay about £350.

I wasn't shopping for a printer but I do get quite a few parts printed commercially, and RC for me is more and more about designing my own stuff as time goes on, so I quite like the idea of having my own test bed for prototyping even though I don't expect to make proper runner strength parts with it (although I think people have made parts to use in runners with this tech). This probably isn't enough to justify the investment, but then I could take it in all sorts of other directions. 

So I have no experience at all of the market for printers or their practical use, but I've got reasonable experience of designing parts for printing (recently designed a while buggy). 

A few questions then, if I may... 

1. I get the impression these are (or at least were) right up there as far as hobbyist printers go, but are they still a wise entry point or has the world moved on too much?

2. I am competent enough with IT but not really more than that and not "into it" as such - I would lose patience/interest in an endless loop of IT problems, so is the printer side of things relatively foolproof in this regard or firmly "geek only" territory? I'd still like my time to be spent designing stuff rather than mainly soaked up trying to work out how to print it right, if that makes sense. 

3. Are there any filaments and settings that can make running strength parts or somewhere near? 

4. If you own a printer have you tended to find you use it a lot or has yours turned out to be a white elephant? Obviously this depends on the person but thoughts /stories would be interesting? I am not certain that owning a printer is for me. 

[Elbowloh 1306]

Ha, I dipped my toe in this week and bought a second hand Flashforge Finder 3 for a very good price.

I got this model as it's very simple to use, it's often used in schools etc.

I've only got as far as downloading Cura (slicing software) and Fusion 360 (free CAD software), and doing 1 test print of a train which didn't quite come out as planned (need to adjust nozzle heat and rotate the model before printing I think).

Like you, I plan on making / designing parts, but more likely things like servo mounts and braces or scale parts for my CC02. 

[Honza 1169]

18 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

1. I get the impression these are (or at least were) right up there as far as hobbyist printers go, but are they still a wise entry point or has the world moved on too much?

MK3 became obsolete more in terms of electronics, than mechanics, which are very similar to MK4 and solid. Unlike cheap Enders and similar entry models, there are not really upgrades needed to make it print reliably. The biggest disadvantage is its driver board that runs on 8-bit MCU, which limits its speed, connectivity and its UI is ugly.

It's biggest disadvantage for your use case is lack of enclosure, which is needed for materials that require higher temps. But those are common on printers around price point of a new MK4.

34 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

2. I am competent enough with IT but not really more than that and not "into it" as such - I would lose patience/interest in an endless loop of IT problems, so is the printer side of things relatively foolproof in this regard or firmly "geek only" territory? I'd still like my time to be spent designing stuff rather than mainly soaked up trying to work out how to print it right, if that makes sense. 

That was main appeal of Prusa. Instead of going through community forums to get firmware and slicer profiles that actually work, or even making your own (I owned an Ender before and it's been like that), Prusa continuously worked on everything to make their printers work seamlessly (although sometimes a while after they sent long delayed printers to customers cough cough XL). Others have caught up recently, but Prusa still generally does great job, with MK3 receiving updates relatively recently.

Of course, that doesn't mean that it will just print anything that you throw at it. There are some things you need to thing about during design to make it print faster, with less supports and with right orientation. But generally, RC parts already have right shape for printing.

You can still tinker with your printer if you want - there are things that can be upgraded - but you don't have to.

48 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

3. Are there any filaments and settings that can make running strength parts or somewhere near? 

Tamiya uses ABS, polycarbonate, nylon - those are available, even in fiber reinforced variants. But those are the exact materials that need enclosure and even then, PA and PC is not trivial to print.

I use PETG, which is easy to print material strong enough to make a working model, but it's also quite brittle. There's also PCTG, which promises mechanical properties of ABS with printability of PETG. But I still didn't get to unpack my roll and test it.

The biggest issue of FDM is Z-axis strenght. Some materials are better than others, but generally, bond between layers is much weaker that other directions. That's something that must be thought out during design.

1 hour ago, BuggyDad said:

4. If you own a printer have you tended to find you use it a lot or has yours turned out to be a white elephant? Obviously this depends on the person but thoughts /stories would be interesting? I am not certain that owning a printer is for me. 

I'm not a type of person would would spend time printing various figures. I see it as waste of print time and material. Even then, my printer runs very often even if I don't work on any project, doing just that - various flexy animals are very popular among kids and even adults, and 3D printed figure stil has unique feel, so it's great little gift. There are opportunities for various functional prints, too - holder here, cover there, replacement for some obscure part that disintegrated due to crap material... And suddenly you printer has days of print time in a matter of weeks, even if you think it barely runs.

 

So in the end, if you have good deal on a printer, get it. You won't regret it. It's a really useful tool. 

[Nikko85 3854]

I've got an UpMini2 - sometimes it has some flaws, but usually works well. It's not high end, but it's the one we have at work. I design in TinkerCAD which is a really basic programme, but fine for my needs.

Personally I really enjoy 3D printing parts, not usually arms or gear cases, but little custom things that allow me to do something different. I print in ABS and ABS+.

Some examples of things I've made that would be hard to do otherwise, or needed more complex machinery.

 

Suspension mounts for an old Nikko when the gearbox ones sheared off

Pumpkin body mounts and brace piece for the CW01. 

3D printed wheels to custom fit a sand paddle and fit the JP theme.

Printed braced and mount for so an MN models can fit a quick drive chassis (and offers support for the front end)

Custom sized spacer for an MF01x so I can have a custom wheelbase of pretty much anything!

Servo tipper mount for the Heavy Dump so it has a working tipper.

Overall these projects would have been really hard to get to work without a 3D printer. I personally don't see my 3D printer as a way to make massive parts  because it could break or take too long, but I think of it as a way to fit existing parts together, and to make simple but precise parts to make different bits work. Say you needed a custom sized servo horn or something to retrofit a vintage model.

My only real 3D printing fail was the 3D printed double wishbone arms for the CW01. Felt solid, once small crash and they snapped like twigs! However there was a quite a weak part. The ABS is quite tough, but brittle, so it's doesn't flex much - this means it's great to solid pieces that aren't meant to flex! 

Edit: That's the only part that has failed post printing, I've had many prints fail in printing.

 

 

 

[VagabondStarJXF 350]

All Cartesian style bed slingers, ones with the print bed moving on the y-axis, are pretty much the entry point to 3D printing for most people. As such they're pretty good if you can get used to them. There's a bit of a learning curve to get the best out of any 3D printer but, if your friend of a friend doesn't mind helping you, you might have an easier time of it than I did. I don't have anyone to hand that knows about 3D printer stuff so I'm having to work stuff out for myself using a combination of trial & error combined with YouTube & Google. 😄

[urban warrior 501]

3D printing has become a wide field to work with. "Cheap" printers may be more demanding to the user to get the results they hope for. Printers that give you good results without spending much of the time tinkering with all parameters, won't be "cheap". I started my "3D Printing Career" as many others with a quite cheap bed slinger, a Ender 3 Pro. Getting quite good results in the first year (with some support of a friend who brought me to this printer), one and a half years later the results became increasingly worse. No matter what I tried, the first layer sticked at the beginning and became loose in the ongoing printing process, ruining many prints. At least I gave up with the Ender and, due to some payoff by my former employer, I decided to go a step further. After registering for the Prusa XL which never seem to come, I cancelled my reservation and went for the (at that time) newly introduced Bambulabs X1C (I did not want to wait any longer for a company that - in my eyes - made the preorder process just to get a free credit from potential customers).

My main issue is that I am good enough creating things in Fusion, but I hate the hassle to waste time getting a 3D printer on the right track. No matter if it is FDM (where you have to deal with a lot of parameters) or SLA (setting the supports correctly is crucial!). Which often led to setbacks in my printing projects.

That was, when the world was nice and beautiful and the sun was shining on me:

 

The result was a model of the asteroid "16 Psyche", divided into four parts, which took me around 2 weeks printing time in total.

 

Just for fun. Printed a "scale" model of Darth Vaders "Executor" with my (at that time) new Elegoo Mars 2 Pro SLA printer. In the movies the ship has a length of 19km (nearly 12 miles).

 

Here I am trying to create my own style of sci-fi-body for my tracked GF-06 chassis. You may notice three pre-stages of the actual part in the background.

On one hand it is fun to create your own parts with an additive manufacturing process, but you have to decide which road you are going. Some cost you more effort to get a stable process. And others may cost you more money. Just my two cents.

Cheers

Martin

[VagabondStarJXF 350]

I also highly recommend the Bambu Lab X1 Carbon (a.k.a the X1C). I got mine last November on the Black Friday sale and I've never had such an easy time with 3D printing. Admittedly all the stuff I'd learned in the prior years of having a Tevo Tornado (along with all its problems) made the X1C feel like a Godsend. It is a bit pricey (currently £1099 for the base model) for someone who will occasionally dabble in 3D Printing but if you're intent on doing a lot of bits 'n pieces (e.g. I printed a couple of vases the other week... who'd have thought, eh?) you wouldn't be wrong for getting an X1C.

[turbofan 20]

15 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

 

1. I get the impression these are (or at least were) right up there as far as hobbyist printers go, but are they still a wise entry point or has the world moved on too much? 

I own the same printer, works very well, it's upgradable to the latest model, you can make an enclosure and be able to print more demanding materials as well, but right of the box it's very capable and very reliable, also very good support from prussa. make sure the one you are getting doesn't have millions of hours on it, some parts like rails and bearing wear over time

2. I am competent enough with IT but not really more than that and not "into it" as such - I would lose patience/interest in an endless loop of IT problems, so is the printer side of things relatively foolproof in this regard or firmly "geek only" territory? I'd still like my time to be spent designing stuff rather than mainly soaked up trying to work out how to print it right, if that makes sense.

3d printing requires some learning, and occasional tinkering, also you need to learn how various materials behave and their requirements, it's not rocket science but it's not like pressing a button and everything  runs smoothly, be prepared to dedicate some time  

3. Are there any filaments and settings that can make running strength parts or somewhere near? 

I use ABS and PETG for functional parts (also for RC) they have good material properties, they have also limitations, much depends on the actual parts and the forces that will be subjected to (also the axis of these forces), but generally speaking they a quite strong, and if they break guess what, you can print more, or even experiment with various iterations to find the right one

4. If you own a printer have you tended to find you use it a lot or has yours turned out to be a white elephant? Obviously this depends on the person but thoughts /stories would be interesting? I am not certain that owning a printer is for me. 

that has to do more with your expectations, but I would think of it as a hobby, like rc cars, you can just have fun ore you can try and be a pro, it all depends on what you want and how mush you are willing to invest on it (time, money etc)

 

[Bash 358]

The Prusa Mk3 is still an excellent printer, and require very little setup to print reliably. I'd ask your friend if they know if it's a mk3s or mk3s+ as they have some nicer quality-of-life upgrades and can print a bit faster. I manage a makerspace at my university that has 12 mk3 printers and they have been exceptionally reliable, and any parts that break are easy to replace and inexpensive. I like printing structural parts in PLA-CF and PETG as none of our printers have an enclosure, and they seem to hold up pretty well.

[BuggyDad 5956]

Thanks for the info all. There's a fair bit to chew over here but overall it seems to me like one of these at second hand money is about as sensible a way in to 3d printer ownership as one could wish for.

Clarified it's a 3S+, so that's good, and they can give me pointers enough to get me started. I'm pretty well acquainted with Fusion360 now so I've no concerns in that regard, it's more the supports and print orientation and the software to do that stuff, I guess.

So all that remains really for me to think about is, er, me. Am I a 3d printer owning kinda guy? I don't really know if I'm honest! 

Oh, more questions...

5. Would you set a printer up in your garage/workshop (bearing in mind it's a bit dusty, used for storage of all sorts, RC tinkering, bikes, firewood, made of old stone walls) or in the house? I'm guessing dusty garage/workshop is a bad idea, unless printer is enclosed (it isn't, but I could make something), but I'd much rather it out of the house.

6. And do you need to leave a laptop plugged in for the duration of a print? I have one (work) laptop that does everything. 

[Nikko85 3854]

at least with mine, once it's printing then you don't need to keep plugged in! I would be surprised if most don't have that feature, as prints can be really long.

 

[ad456 468]

I have mine in my shed in a roughly made wooden cupboard to keep the draughts and dust out and hooked up to a Raspberry Pi with webcam for an Octopi setup. It's well worth doing as you can check it from the laptop or phone. I'd highly recommend that type of setup. 

It does sound like you are about ready to take the leap so the only advice I'd add is "Buy it!!"

This is the webpage for Octopi on mine at this moment.

Edited March 14 by ad456
Added screenshot

[Bash 358]

I'd keep it inside if I were you unless the noise is an issue, the MK3S+ is a quiet printer but I know that it bothers some people more than others. You don't have to leave a computer plugged in for the duration of the print, you load the g-code (instructions for the printer to make the part) on to an SD card or can setup a wi-fi connection to send the file to the printer from a computer.

[Alex97 474]

Bambu labs is a great option, I came from a Creality ender and it's night and day as it just works ! Cheap 3D printers require a lot of tuning which isn't fun so I'd advoid these. I've got the A1 mini and it's literally just set-up and play. You can also buy their AMS to allow mulit colour printing. There's a discount code A1M-NY-10 which will drop 10% off. I wouldn't look elsewhere as the quality is amazing and it prints in about half of the time my ender did. You also get an app on your phone to control the printer and can watch a live feed. 

 

They also offer a larger printer the A1 which had been recalled due to a cable issue but is due to be released again very shortly. They handled the recall very well IMO and offered everyone a full refund 

[BuggyDad 5956]

1 hour ago, ad456 said:

I have mine in my shed in a roughly made wooden cupboard to keep the draughts and dust out and hooked up to a Raspberry Pi with webcam for an Octopi setup. It's well worth doing as you can check it from the laptop or phone. I'd highly recommend that type of setup. 

It does sound like you are about ready to take the leap so the only advice I'd add is "Buy it!!"

This is the webpage for Octopi on mine at this moment.

It may be worth noting that having bought my son a Raspberry Pi a few months ago, we have yet to get going on the thing beyond logging ourselves in and hooking it up to a monitor and whatnot. Although I've approached this as a supervising parent rather than an adult trying to use it, that might give an indication of my IT prowess (or lack thereof). 

[ad456 468]

@BuggyDad Octopi is a doddle as the website has a cracking tutorial for flashing and setup. I've learned all my tech from doing/attempting opposed to classroom/college situations and it gets more intuitive the more you mess with. It really is a case of having a go most off the time and ditching the fear. I think you'd handle it all just fine!!

[Honza 1169]

2 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

5. Would you set a printer up in your garage/workshop (bearing in mind it's a bit dusty, used for storage of all sorts, RC tinkering, bikes, firewood, made of old stone walls) or in the house? I'm guessing dusty garage/workshop is a bad idea, unless printer is enclosed (it isn't, but I could make something), but I'd much rather it out of the house.

Dusty workshop is not ideal, but the bigger issue is temperature - open printers tend to be quite sensitive to low temperature and temperature changes. If you'll print only pla/petg, it's safe to leave them inside (although It's advisable to keep it in an unnocupied room).

[VagabondStarJXF 350]

Yup. Dust is not your 3D Printer's friend. Creality do portable type enclosures (now available from other companies too) that should fit the Prusa mk3 just fine if you want to print in the more temperature sensitive materials like ABS. I have one left over from when I was using my Tevo Tornado and I'd printed ABS ok with it. I'm not sure if I'd try the really, really sensitive ones (like Nylon, PEEK, etc.) with that kind of setup. I'm not even confident enough to try those with an X1C.

[BuggyDad 5956]

I've taken the leap and bought the second hand Prusa. It's in lovely condition and I spent some time with the sellers getting a bit of basic learning. They started by saying to me that the big hurdle in terms of knowledge is not so much the printer or the slicer and all that, but the CAD modelling, so that motivated me because I'm already at a stage where I can use that. 

I have ordered some PLA+ (rightly or wrongly I went with the PLA+ over the PLA because it's meant to be stronger, just as printable and is made from corn starch) and some PETG. I will start with PLA+ but I'm motivated to try out PETG because it is multiples stronger and also more flexible - looking at the PETG parts in the printer itself I feel like there's a good chance I could make running parts out of that. They look solid with that little bit of material give that I want in place of brittle. It's straight-up plastic though, with the environmental downsides of that. Other than filament, filament storage and the simple necessities for cleaning, I don't think I need much else. 

It might be that some of my first prints are to make up an enclosure for the printer. The IKEA Lack thing looks sensible, and it'd also solve where to keep it, without losing my hobby desk space.

I won't get up and running til next week but I'm looking forward to it. 

[Honza 1169]

1 hour ago, BuggyDad said:

I have ordered some PLA+ (rightly or wrongly I went with the PLA+ over the PLA because it's meant to be stronger, just as printable and is made from corn starch) and some PETG.

Right choice, PLA+ can be used for functional prototypes, it's not as brittle as the regular one. PETG is better for final parts, but it can be sticky, which might be an issue on finer details. But with right settings, it can be printed with almost uniform strength even in Z-axis. One notice: never print PETG directly on the stock smooth PEI sheet. It can ruin it fairly quickly.

1 hour ago, BuggyDad said:

It's straight-up plastic though, with the environmental downsides of that. Other than filament, filament storage and the simple necessities for cleaning, I don't think I need much else. 

There are companies that collect waste filament and recycle it. There are even ways to build your own extruder for recycled filament, if you want to invest into that.

One another part to add to your list - filament drier. PLA becomes brittle while it absorbs moisture, PETG becomes much more stringy when printed and very wet filament will cause voids during printing. If you don't want to invest into specialised filament drier, a cheap food dehydrator with temp setting will do.

Enjoy your new toy! 😁

[BuggyDad 5956]

2 hours ago, Honza said:

Right choice, PLA+ can be used for functional prototypes, it's not as brittle as the regular one. PETG is better for final parts, but it can be sticky, which might be an issue on finer details. But with right settings, it can be printed with almost uniform strength even in Z-axis. One notice: never print PETG directly on the stock smooth PEI sheet. It can ruin it fairly quickly.

There are companies that collect waste filament and recycle it. There are even ways to build your own extruder for recycled filament, if you want to invest into that.

One another part to add to your list - filament drier. PLA becomes brittle while it absorbs moisture, PETG becomes much more stringy when printed and very wet filament will cause voids during printing. If you don't want to invest into specialised filament drier, a cheap food dehydrator with temp setting will do.

Enjoy your new toy! 😁

Thanks! 

I was looking at these for filament storage with rechargeable dessicant, which I guess isn't a drier as such but should keep things well if they start dry.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_Eyr4Uqh

Do I need a dedicated powered drier or will some sealed dehydrated storage like this do? 

[Honza 1169]

4 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

Do I need a dedicated powered drier or will some sealed dehydrated storage like this do? 

I don't have experience with these, since I haven't work with materials that are moisture sensitive, I just throw a roll into the drier once in a while and it will do for a few weeks.

From what I've read, if you start with dry filament, the storage boxes should keep it dry, but some, especially cheap, material is wet even new and dessicant might not be enough to absorb all moisture.

[Bash 358]

I use these dryers at work and have had great luck with them. For PLA+ and PETG I typically dry them about every 1-2 weeks, although this depends on how humid your area is. 

[VagabondStarJXF 350]

I've just started trying PETG recently myself. Dry your filament before each use. I dried mine for over a day before the first print, just for a bit of overkill, then forgot to dry it before the next print a couple of days later. Needless to say the print went a bit weird. It took me a few failed prints before I remembered that PETG is really, really hygroscopic. 😄

[BuggyDad 5956]

Right, time for a whole new raft of rookie errors as I embark on my first attempt at 3d printing. 

As I understand tradition dictates, we start with a "Benchy", which is a cartoon boat designed to be a good test for a 3d printer, with overhangs, holes and whatnot. I'm using PLA+ - PLA is your basic filament, PLA+ should be similar to print, just a little stronger. And it's what I have. And it's made of plants. 

The first one gave the error "crash detected" early on, with some filament sticking up and getting in the way of the nozzle, so I reckon I hadn't cleaned it well enough and it dragged some old filament around making a mess. No matter, start again. 

Second attempt came free of the bed after about 15 layers and wrapped some filament around the nozzle, so I gave the bed a really good clean with a new cloth and IPA and we go again. 

Third attempt the quality looks quite tidy so far (more then halfway through) but the base is warping off the bed. The room I have the printer in is very cold, so I'm hoping that's my issue, will relocate it and try again. I can't find a thermometer but I'm guessing 15°c ish, so it'll move to the kitchen which I'm guessing is 18ish. Meantime I can't bring myself to abort a 50% complete cartoon boat for some irrational reason, so am letting it finish, assuming it stays stuck to the bed, and will turn the telly on. A cartoon boat takes my printer 2 hours... 

Next test will be a suspension arm, partly because it takes less time to print than a cartoon boat and partly because it might serve some purpose. I'll print it horizontal first, even though I believe flipping it on its side would be the right orientation for strength. It'll have to carry on after I go to bed. Wish me luck...