A different take on Tamiya's TD2 (new track test video added)

[Ferruz 12616]

Great thread, some inspiring mods you did there! 👏

The buggy looks good with the stock TD2 body, but the Yoko one is menacing, and maybe better suited to the battles on the track?  

[BloodClod 366]

On 4/14/2024 at 4:05 PM, Howards said:

Do you get the sense that the '01 rear suspension mod gives you anything drive-wise other than the ability to fit common race wheels? I could do the mode with mine but not that fussed about just using the stardish wheels.

Actually the common race wheels work fine with the stock suspension parts except that they will widen the car about to about 260mm which is 10mm wider than most legal race buggies. So if it is not a big deal where you run, it'll give you a tad more stability in the rear. The reason I swapped out the stock suspension is actually because my friend has broken 2 rear hubs in his short time of running the buggy. I haven't broken any myself, but I've also read online that others have found that a potential weak spot, so I decided to try the mod since I was prepping it for the track anyway.

Other than that, I'm afraid I hadn't done enough testing with the prototype parts and the stock steering to determine any significant difference, but once I get the car in final spec that is something I would like to test. Years ago Team Durango released their buggy with the option to run different length rear driveshafts without altering track width. Supposedly shorter driveshafts (which I am now running) translate to more progressive on-power steering response. That would be an interesting setup option.

 

13 hours ago, Ferruz said:

Great thread, some inspiring mods you did there! 👏

The buggy looks good with the stock TD2 body, but the Yoko one is menacing, and maybe better suited to the battles on the track?  

Thank you! After last weekend's track day the Yokomo body decided to call it quits. I have a repro I am very tempted to paint for this car... and all the encouragement from this thread isn't helping change my mind! lol

[BloodClod 366]

The testing last weekend was promising but cut short when an errant buggy clipped my rear wheel and pulled the rear inner suspension pin out. On closer inspection, I found that the pins are actually a tad short to fit in the suspension blocks, and that there is about 2mm of forward-aft play. For anyone putting their TD2s under race conditions, you may wish to find or cut some 48mm hingepins to make that area a tad more bullet-proof.

[BloodClod 366]

My carbon parts were done today and I think it will stabilize the platform for fine tuning. The 3D printed parts were good and lasted far longer than I expected but they were too flexy for the suspension to be predictable. And of course, carbon fiber parts look so pretty. Lol

Learning a lot about this car in the process. And my pal showed up with an interesting TD2 project himself which transformed the rear suspension instead - I'll try to take some pics next time out.

[BloodClod 366]

I took some pictures of my buddy's TD2 today and it's going to appeal especially to those who think my front stand-up shock configuration "ruins" the unique feature of this buggy.

Check out his awesome rear suspension configuration! 

We're both having a great time running these cars at the local track and it's fun when guys come over to our tables after the runs to find out that these are Tamiyas!

[Howards 594]

Amazing. Love the rear push rod mod. 

What motors are you folk running?

[BloodClod 366]

1 hour ago, Howards said:

Amazing. Love the rear push rod mod. 

What motors are you folk running?

Yeah I think it looks really cool too!

I'm not sure what my friend is running, but I'm running an old speed passion 8.5T motor. It uses bullet plugs that insert into the endbell so I don't have the typical issues with motor fitment.

[Howards 594]

Out of interest for those who raced their TD2s - what suspension fluid were you running with the non-kit shocks? 

The kit seems to ship with Hard (clear) which is 900cst apparently, which seems a bit wild. 

I built my TD2 to spec with the CVAs. I also built a TD4, but on that I used Hi-Caps, using the three hole pistons. I used the TD4kit fluid, and that produced a really hard set-up that seems to work on Carpet but not bumpy astro. So today I swapped the oil out in the rears to Soft(400). The damping now feels exactly like TD2 damping with Hard?! I wondered if CVAs and Hi-Caps were that different in their behaviour. 

[BloodClod 366]

The modified TD2 has been my regular runner at the track for the past few months and this car has been more than able to hold its own in dogfights with the AEs, mugens, yokomos and other race buggies. What a blast.

Here it is in latest form with a new shell I just completed. I thought this vintage 834B body would fit in well with the quirky and unusual project car. The shape of this body is really... er... different and I suspect many will either love it or hate it. lol!

The car has seen a number of refinements over the weeks of testing and running... among them a new front bulkhead, some steering mods a rear suspension brace to prevent the stock shock tower from coming loose in hard runs.

Next up I'd like to try a radical change by relocating the battery much further front transversely just behind the steering servo. I suspect this will further improve the car's balance on the astro surface I run on.

Really enjoying the TD2 - wish Tamiya would have continued development of this platform... oh well.

So guys, this body... love it or hate it?

 

 

[BloodClod 366]

On 5/13/2024 at 8:53 PM, Howards said:

Out of interest for those who raced their TD2s - what suspension fluid were you running with the non-kit shocks? 

The kit seems to ship with Hard (clear) which is 900cst apparently, which seems a bit wild. 

I built my TD2 to spec with the CVAs. I also built a TD4, but on that I used Hi-Caps, using the three hole pistons. I used the TD4kit fluid, and that produced a really hard set-up that seems to work on Carpet but not bumpy astro. So today I swapped the oil out in the rears to Soft(400). The damping now feels exactly like TD2 damping with Hard?! I wondered if CVAs and Hi-Caps were that different in their behaviour. 

Sorry missed this post. Not sure if it helps but I'm running Tamiya TRF big bore shocks. TLR35 oil with 2x1.6 pistons up front and TLR30 oil with 2x1.7 pistons in the rear.

[Howards 594]

That's 350 / 300 CST essentially, right? 

More questions - what do you think the upright shock mod is giving you over the laydown version?  Did you get a sense of when / where it manifested itself?

 

[BloodClod 366]

41 minutes ago, Howards said:

That's 350 / 300 CST essentially, right? 

More questions - what do you think the upright shock mod is giving you over the laydown version?  Did you get a sense of when / where it manifested itself?

 

TLR35 = 420cst
TLR30 = 338cst

Our weather here is warmer and that may translate to slightly heavier oils to compensate for the temps.

The upright shocks... well, the stock laydown CVA shocks were actually a decent starting point, but I felt they were limited in a few areas:

1) The lack of tunability. Because of the length and bore of the shock, finding a set of springs for fine-tuning was a bit of a challenge.

2) The plastic construction did not present the best of tolerances. As such, I found even for the stock shocks to work I had to run a very thick oil. This again, made it hard to tune accurately.

3) Given the laydown configuration, changing springs or oil was a bit of a pain... everytime I needed to do this it was quite time consuming.

4) The stock setup doesn't give enough up travel. Shortening the shocks is a quick fix but it compromises on the droop the buggy needs.

5) The shocks leaked. Perhaps better o-rings would have helped, but given the other limitations I didn't think it worthwhile trying.

 

A different set of challenges of the laydown position arose when I swapped them out for big bores.

1) It was very difficult to find a spring-oil combo that matched the stock plastics. My friend's laydown setup took a lot longer to dial in and I think it still isn't as close to the stand-up setup I'm running. He had to drill out special pistons and even cut the cantilevers to get the suspension softer and give sufficient up travel.

2) The big bore setup is even more of a pain to take out of the car for setup changes... really.

 

Performance-wise, I think the major downside of the laydown setup is simply that the design moves the electronics back and in turn makes the front end just too light (particularly for high-grip surfaces). The car can't steer on-power and the it is a tad challenging to manage in the air. A lot of weight needs to be added to compensate and it makes the car harder to tune. I don't think it impossible though... recently my friend's laydown TD2 seemed to be running a lot better... but it has taken a significant amount of time and effort to get it in the window. Hope that helps.

One very interesting thing we've learnt recently is that the TD2 front end has significant flex in it which impacts its steering response. When stiffened up with bracing the car handling changes significantly.

 

[Howards 594]

Ta. I found the same re. getting similar shock settings from Tamiya Hi-Caps vs. the stock CVAs, and also agree the front end on both TD4 and 2 is too light. 

Interesting regarding travel. To get the front end of the TD2 to bottom out on the chassis I removed the spaces on the push rod but I agree it does feel like the droop is then too limited. 

Lots to tinker with I guess.

[Jason1145 4683]

On 4/7/2024 at 12:52 PM, BloodClod said:

Was filled with anticipation today as I took my buggy to the track for it's first track run. Asked a buddy to film some video of the car going around the track.

I hope to do a more detailed video when the project is closer to complete, but for anyone interested, here's 3-minutes worth of the car doing laps at the local astroturf track. I definitely noted down some things I would need to fine tune for the setup, but for a first run, it far exceeded my expectations.
 

 

This is some pretty good driving, anyone who says the TD2 isn’t good in a track needs to watch this little snippet… ok it might not be racing anyone here but it shows good control manners all round, wish I could drive as well as this 👍

 

[BloodClod 366]

The TD2 project continues and the car is getting better and better.

Put together a short video of the car on the track just this month.

Can a TD2 be a decent, fun and reliable club racer? As far as I'm concerned, it's a definite YES! lol!
 

 

[BloodClod 366]

On 7/9/2024 at 3:18 AM, Jason1145 said:

This is some pretty good driving, anyone who says the TD2 isn’t good in a track needs to watch this little snippet… ok it might not be racing anyone here but it shows good control manners all round, wish I could drive as well as this 👍

 

Thanks for the very kind comments. I do my best to keep the buggy between the pipes and out of the way of other cars but the lads I run with may not think so. lol!

[Losi XXT-CR 314]

On 5/5/2024 at 12:04 PM, BloodClod said:

I took some pictures of my buddy's TD2 today and it's going to appeal especially to those who think my front stand-up shock configuration "ruins" the unique feature of this buggy.

Check out his awesome rear suspension configuration! 

We're both having a great time running these cars at the local track and it's fun when guys come over to our tables after the runs to find out that these are Tamiyas!

Very interesting. Reminds me of the Tenth Technology Predator from 25 years ago or so. Although they were 4wd. 

[F-150 540]

I need a td2, * don't care what people think of it, it's a wild piece of engineering IMO ..  can't get anymore classic Tamiyas than this.

Look at those fenders.... Love it, love my TD4 now I need it's sister the Td2.

[Howards 594]

13 hours ago, F-150 said:

I need a td2, * don't care what people think of it, it's a wild piece of engineering IMO ..  can't get anymore classic Tamiyas than this.

Look at those fenders.... Love it, love my TD4 now I need it's sister the Td2.

I raced mine at Herts on  Tuesday - in stock form - other than tyres - it did well, survived some big offs (Herts is a car eater) and the kids loved it. It’s also wonderfully quiet and smooth. 
 

Plan now is to tune it to get it better at clearing tabletops whilst lowering the ride hight. Need to find two seconds a lap but then I haven’t raced 2WD in 20 years…!